The Greatest Crisis In Modern History

[PolyNewbie]

sunsettommy:That was very easy.Tell me that you never looked it up?

See why I can not take you seriously?

Are you kidding ? You cannot see that in the confession tape that is not Bin Laden ? Since when does corporate media commentary count as proof ?

Pretend all you want but pretending doesn't protect you from the truth and that WAS NOT Bin Laden in the tape. "Oh mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe ?" (forget who).

Are you for real ?

[PolyNewbie]

sunsettommy:To these people, the terrorists are fictional, the planes were drones, the twin towers were collapsed in a controlled implosion

Not all true - in fact mostly not true. Not very many people think the planes were not actually planes except for the case of the Pentagon. I don't think a plane hit the Pentagon because from the physical evidence it looks like its impossible for a plane to have hit the Pentagon. There is no evidence of a plane hitting the Pentagon.

No matter how crazy you think 911 conspiracy theories are, you cannot argu your case with evidence. Most of the evidence from before, during and after the event points to it being an inside government job. Most of what you consider as evidence supporting the official version is either made up or doesn't count as evidence.

There is also Larry Silverstein admitting that wtc 7 was demolished and Rumfeld admitting that one of the jets were shot down (and these are both real). I guess they just said something erroneous rather than accidentally blurt something out. That explains it :angry:

[Canadian Blue]

Are you kidding ? You cannot see that in the confession tape that is not Bin Laden ? Since when does corporate media commentary count as proof ?

Since we all realized that the corporate media is more credible then stoners and obscure internet sources like youtube. Ever hear of the Dearborne Independant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn_Independent

No matter how crazy you think 911 conspiracy theories are, you cannot argu your case with evidence. Most of the evidence from before, during and after the event points to it being an inside government job. Most of what you consider as evidence supporting the official version is either made up or doesn't count as evidence.

Yes we can, its just that apparently all of our sources are apparently in fear of losing their jobs if they tell the truth. That seems to be your counter point, so if you consider video's on youtube to be the most credible source of information on the planet, then thats just sad.

[PolyNewbie]

The media isn't the message. The specific method of communication is not relevant - its who is saying what.

This list of individuals has both experience and knowledge of what is going on and they have no reason to lie.

I don't see any stoners on that list. I don't think there are stoners on st911.org either. I prefer to get my information from qualified independent people.

The Ford International Weekly Dearborn Independent is corporate media by definition.

Scholars for 911 Truth Scholars for 911 Truth

911 Statement by 100 prominent Americans

Officials for 911 Truth

These lists are of people that have reached the very top of their respective positions. There is some overlap - some names are listed on two lists.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Who cares?

911 did happen. Bin Laden is being hunted. Afganistan was attacked and now Iraq is living under the same people who went in to get Bin. The Americans are pissed off at whoever attacked them, I would be too. The war on terror has begun, and it won't end this is a life work for a government not an engagement. This is Nam on roids so to speak, only the Yankees are committed to win this time.

If you wanty a good conspiracy to chase look into Roswell New Mexico. Lots of questions about that one.

[sunsettommy]

sunsettommy:That was very easy.Tell me that you never looked it up?

See why I can not take you seriously?

Are you kidding ? You cannot see that in the confession tape that is not Bin Laden ? Since when does corporate media commentary count as proof ?

Pretend all you want but pretending doesn't protect you from the truth and that WAS NOT Bin Laden in the tape. "Oh mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe ?" (forget who).

Are you for real ?

I rest my case.

Thank you.

[GostHacked]

The man in the 'confession tape' is not Bin Laden, The nose, cheeks and some body movements are not Bin Laden.

Results of 9/11 - Two countries were invaded. Do you really think that the American population would have supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars if 9/11 did not happen? Knowing now that all the reasons they gave you for going in were constantly changing when the truth comes out? Then when you start going backwards, you find that the current Administration has been lying through it's teeth all along.

Canadian Blue

Since we all realized that the corporate media is more credible then stoners and obscure internet sources like youtube. Ever hear of the Dearborne Independant?

Sometimes main stream media does not give the full or even a partial picture. They are far too busy telling you everything is right and just keep on shopping , get back to the malls. Don't worry there will always be cheap oil. This war I believe is about securing the last semi-uncharted natural resources areas of the world. The US peaked their oil production in the 70's. Now they import most of what they consume. Canada supplies about 15% of the total US Natural Gas consumption. That 15% is over half of Canada's total output.

http://www.energybulletin.net/21899.html

http://www.energyshop.com/es/contactus/big_chill_ahead.cfm

Yes this war is about oil and gas, not about freedom (well maybe freeing the oil from the Middle East)

What happens to economies when good cannot be moved anymore? (say bye bye to cheap stuff from China) No power to move ships across the ocean to deliver the goods, no power to supply the plants making the goods. Basicly things come to a halt. And since we have no real alternative to replacing oil right now or even in the next 10 years, we are all going to really change how we live. Everything will change.

So this war will go on as long as there is still resources flowing from the Middle East into the tanks of the vehicles we drive. Not only does the economy stop/slow down, your ability to defend that with a military gets tougher. No fuel to drive the tanks, and the trucks and the aircraft needed. Not to mention the food you buy on the store shelves will no longer be delivered by truck since there is no gas in the tank. Food will become a problem as well. All current logistics supporting our way of life is in a crisis. This cannot go on forever.

[kimmy]

See Hr 6166 and the military commissions act. The USA is now one of the most oppressive and tyranical governments that has existed in 1000 years. They have even tossed out the Magna Carta.

This is one of the stupidest and most ignorant statements I've ever read on MapleLeafWeb.

Are you kidding me. Seriously have you ever heard of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, and Mao. You have just shown your absolute lack of knowledge with regards to history.

The laws that the USA has in place now are significantly more tyranical than anything these guys have ever comitted to paper. You have just shown your ignorance. You should investigate some legal commentary on the recent laws mean.

And this is another of the stupidest and most ignorant statements I've ever read on MapleLeafWeb.

Whatever your views of the current US regime, any comparison between them and the worst butchers of history is utterly ludicrous, and claiming the US is one of the most tyrannical governments of the past 1000 years is a statement that casts doubt on not only your education, but also your intelligence.

-k

[sunsettommy]

See Hr 6166 and the military commissions act. The USA is now one of the most oppressive and tyranical governments that has existed in 1000 years. They have even tossed out the Magna Carta.

This is one of the stupidest and most ignorant statements I've ever read on MapleLeafWeb.

Are you kidding me. Seriously have you ever heard of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, and Mao. You have just shown your absolute lack of knowledge with regards to history.

The laws that the USA has in place now are significantly more tyranical than anything these guys have ever comitted to paper. You have just shown your ignorance. You should investigate some legal commentary on the recent laws mean.

And this is another of the stupidest and most ignorant statements I've ever read on MapleLeafWeb.

Whatever your views of the current US regime, any comparison between them and the worst butchers of history is utterly ludicrous, and claiming the US is one of the most tyrannical governments of the past 1000 years is a statement that casts doubt on not only your education, but also your intelligence.

-k

This is why I can not take him seriously because he is just too loony.

Paranoids are like that.

[PolyNewbie]

sunsettommy:This is why I can not take him seriously because he is just too loony.

Paranoids are like that.

They are not my interpretations of what has been going on. That is the unanamous opinion of various legal scholars and ex supreme court judges, congessmen, etc.

Look up what Ron Paul has to say about the police state.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

While the Americans are far from perfect, I prefer them to any other of the great powers. Just think obout that for a second and you can see that the alternatives are far worst. China and Russia are your alternate choices. Do you really think that you would be able to act in the same manner in a society controlled by them and their state actions, or do you think maybe that you have a higher degree of freedom in this society?

The choice is your to make of course, thats the way we view things over here. The same cannot be said there. If you favour free will and democracy then you must choose this side of the fence. As messy as democracy is the alternatives are not very desireable.

[PolyNewbie]

What USA about America is now true, but under the laws they have on the books that could change very quickly.

The current laws allow them to take anyone away that they deem as an enemy combatant and anyone who sees someone being taken away cannot speak about it or be guilty of breaking the law. Once you are designated as an enemy combatant you have no way of disproving the accusation and no rights to a trial.

The person taken away does not have any rights once they are designated an enemy combatant. You can be designated an enemy combatamt for a large number of domestic crimes such as marijuanna posession.

The police can now legally take people away in the middle of the night and make them dissapear and tell no one.

Those are the legal realities of the Patriot act, HR 6166 and the Military commisions act.

There are multiple legal scholars that say this.

[White Doors]

What USA about America is now true, but under the laws they have on the books that could change very quickly.

The current laws allow them to take anyone away that they deem as an enemy combatant and anyone who sees someone being taken away cannot speak about it or be guilty of breaking the law. Once you are designated as an enemy combatant you have no way of disproving the accusation and no rights to a trial.

The person taken away does not have any rights once they are designated an enemy combatant. You can be designated an enemy combatamt for a large number of domestic crimes such as marijuanna posession.

The police can now legally take people away in the middle of the night and make them dissapear and tell no one.

Those are the legal realities of the Patriot act, HR 6166 and the Military commisions act.

There are multiple legal scholars that say this.

Only if they are not citizens. Jezus. Is everything you have an opinion on factually incorrect or what?

[kimmy]

They are not my interpretations of what has been going on. That is the unanamous opinion of various legal scholars and ex supreme court judges, congessmen, etc.

Look up what Ron Paul has to say about the police state.

Yeah? What's he saying? That the "Patriot Act" allows surveillance without judicial authorization or suspending the right of habeas corpus?

It's a big leap from that to claiming that they're one of the most tyrannical regimes of the past 1000 years, worse than Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot, or any of the other retarded hyperbole that you've been spewing.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:It's a big leap from that to claiming that they're one of the most tyrannical regimes of the past 1000 years, worse than Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot, or any of the other retarded hyperbole that you've been spewing.

The Russians under Stalin would grab people in the middle of the night but it was never codified in law like in the USA.

You should look up what some legal scholars say about these laws. You should do more reading and less criticising.

[Canadian Blue]

I'd be interested to know what "Legal scholars" you are talking about.

PS: Lyndon Larouche doesn't count.

If the US was the most tyrannical regime in history, then wouldn't the people who brought out the 9/11 truth movement be in the "FEMA concentration camps"?

[PolyNewbie]

I'm talking about legal scholars in particular not economists.

I will give you some links if you explain why fascism is so attractive to you.

[Canadian Blue]

I will give you some links if you explain why fascism is so attractive to you.

It's not all that attractive. I think fascists are inspired by kooky theories, paranoia, and a strong belief in conspiracy theories which are only substantiated by unknowns, shotty facts, and qoutes taken out of context by well known people.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue: Fascism is corporatism. We are moving into the American Union and the American Union is already created. It is a "public private" partnership. The "private" part will have all the power and this is in fact fascism. Why are you in favour of it ?

BTW you can find a legal analysis of HR 6166 just by typing "legal analysis HR 6166" make sure you don't read presstitute commentary - read from ex supreme court judges, professors of law, etc.

[GostHacked]

What USA about America is now true, but under the laws they have on the books that could change very quickly.

The current laws allow them to take anyone away that they deem as an enemy combatant and anyone who sees someone being taken away cannot speak about it or be guilty of breaking the law. Once you are designated as an enemy combatant you have no way of disproving the accusation and no rights to a trial.

The person taken away does not have any rights once they are designated an enemy combatant. You can be designated an enemy combatamt for a large number of domestic crimes such as marijuanna posession.

The police can now legally take people away in the middle of the night and make them dissapear and tell no one.

Those are the legal realities of the Patriot act, HR 6166 and the Military commisions act.

There are multiple legal scholars that say this.

Only if they are not citizens. Jezus. Is everything you have an opinion on factually incorrect or what?

This is quite wrong. Even if you are a legitimate American Citizen (See Jose Padillia) you can be detained indefinately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2037444.stm This is dated Nov 22/2005.

Meaning he was detained for 3 years without a formal charge. Regardless of the 'he was in a cult, talking to Al-Queda terrorists ect ect. Innocent until proven guilty? Or have we gone in the other direction now. Recall the old joke 'In Mother Russia you are guilty until proven innocent.'?

The indictment avoids a Supreme Court battle over how long the US government could hold one of its citizens without charge.

This is one example, I am 100% sure there are many other incidents like this that never make the news.

Polynewbie is correct. It has been written into law through the Patriot Act (and revisions) HR 6166 and several presidential executive orders.

[kimmy]

This is quite wrong. Even if you are a legitimate American Citizen (See Jose Padillia) you can be detained indefinately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2037444.stm This is dated Nov 22/2005.

Meaning he was detained for 3 years without a formal charge. Regardless of the 'he was in a cult, talking to Al-Queda terrorists ect ect. Innocent until proven guilty? Or have we gone in the other direction now. Recall the old joke 'In Mother Russia you are guilty until proven innocent.'?

The indictment avoids a Supreme Court battle over how long the US government could hold one of its citizens without charge.

This is one example, I am 100% sure there are many other incidents like this that never make the news.

Polynewbie is correct. It has been written into law through the Patriot Act (and revisions) HR 6166 and several presidential executive orders.

Yes, the US "anti-terror" laws have given the authorities powers that violate our fundamental principles on human rights and the due process.

That's not what PolyNewbie is wrong about.

What PolyNewbie is wrong about is that these new powers make the US, in his words, "one of the most oppressive and tyranical governments that has existed in 1000 years."

The Patriot Act et al pose a threat to human rights that the majority of people on earth don't even *have* right now.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

Kimmy:What PolyNewbie is wrong about is that these new powers make the US, in his words, "one of the most oppressive and tyranical governments that has existed in 1000 years."

Yes, the magna Carta was set up around 1200 BC and gives you the right for representation at trial. The new laws do not give accused terrorists that right, so I should change that to about 800 years instead of 1000 years.

[GostHacked]

This is quite wrong. Even if you are a legitimate American Citizen (See Jose Padillia) you can be detained indefinately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2037444.stm This is dated Nov 22/2005.

Meaning he was detained for 3 years without a formal charge. Regardless of the 'he was in a cult, talking to Al-Queda terrorists ect ect. Innocent until proven guilty? Or have we gone in the other direction now. Recall the old joke 'In Mother Russia you are guilty until proven innocent.'?

The indictment avoids a Supreme Court battle over how long the US government could hold one of its citizens without charge.

This is one example, I am 100% sure there are many other incidents like this that never make the news.

Polynewbie is correct. It has been written into law through the Patriot Act (and revisions) HR 6166 and several presidential executive orders.

Yes, the US "anti-terror" laws have given the authorities powers that violate our fundamental principles on human rights and the due process.

That's not what PolyNewbie is wrong about.

What PolyNewbie is wrong about is that these new powers make the US, in his words, "one of the most oppressive and tyranical governments that has existed in 1000 years."

The Patriot Act et al pose a threat to human rights that the majority of people on earth don't even *have* right now.

-k

How can you be the beacon of freedom and human rights when you are slowly eroding the bill of rights through the Patriot Act and such other items of legislation? How can you say that you are for good and against evil when you are systematicly (slowly so no one notices much) negating all your rights. Tyranny is happening in the US, slowly but surely

[Canadian Blue]

Yes, the magna Carta was set up around 1200 BC and gives you the right for representation at trial. The new laws do not give accused terrorists that right, so I should change that to about 800 years instead of 1000 years.

Did Hitler give people a "trial" before gassing them?

I've heard more than enough of the FEMA deathcamp, 9/11 Conspiracy Theory BS, and Lyndon Larouche. It's all BS, and all of it is backed up by shotty "facts", obscure qoutes taken out of context, and paranoia.

[PolyNewbie]

I've heard more than enough of the FEMA deathcamp, 9/11 Conspiracy Theory BS, and Lyndon Larouche. It's all BS, and all of it is backed up by shotty "facts", obscure qoutes taken out of context, and paranoia.

You wish that were true but you saying it doesn't make it so.

911 being an inside job is based on piles of evidence. This can be proven a multitude of ways using independent sets of undoubtable evidence. There is NO evidence supporting the official version. Anyone that can tell their own mother from a chimp can see those tapes of Bin Laden confessing were fakes - that was not Bin Laden.

The concentration camps exist, there have been pictures of them along with the train cars with 130 shackle sets per car. There is no way these are for animals because they have shackles for arms and legs and they have benches for sitting.

The North American Union is being formed as a public - private partnership. A public private partnership is fascism by definition.

Mass executions have always been part of these systems. We have seen this in China, Russia and Germany this century alone.

There is both historic presidence and hard evidence to prove these views. Your views have nothing supporting them except your desire to believe them.

The best protection from truth is to stay stupid, that way none of this will ever affect you. Maybe you can up up with an actual arguement instead of just expletives and your opinion.