The Greatest Crisis In Modern History

[kimmy]

The crisis is the loss of our manufactering economy and its replacement by a service economy. The loss is the knowledge that is associated with the manufactering economy. We are becomming a nation of people who serve coffee at every corner and buy everything useful from China.

Knowledge has been divorced from manufacturing.

I can understand why an 84 year old nutbar wouldn't understand this, but I'd expect more from a self-described electrical engineer, since the electrical engineering field is one of the most obvious examples. A considerable portion of the world's electronics are now manufacturered in places like Malaysia, China, and Taiwan. But for the most part, they're designed elsewhere. The knowledge that designed those products comes from places like Canada, the United States, and Japan. The knowledge is here. The part of the process that's been exported to southeast Asia is the part that involves little knowledge at all: semi-skilled workers at assembly lines, earning low wages, and working in barely tolerable conditions.

Opponents of "globalization" would point out that we've exported the worst parts of our industry-- the low-paying, dangerous, polluting parts-- to third world countries, while keeping the good parts-- the high paying, knowledge-based, non-polluting portions-- for ourselves.

Its about the most interesting thing I have ever heard on the web. LaRouche has real wisdom because he has been around for a long time.

The fact that he has been around for a long time doesn't prove he's smart, it just proves that gullible people have been around for a long time too.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

The knowledge that designed those products comes from places like Canada, the United States, and Japan. The knowledge is here.

Not really anymore - they have schools in elsewhere. What about when they figure it all out and do not need us anymore. ? Then we have nothing to offer the world community and they own us because we have forgotten how to engineer because they have been doing it for us ? Where does that leave us as their society leaps ahead of ours as we forget everything ?

We wind up with lawyers, CEO's and politicians robbing us, out of work except for those who serve them coffee ! No one can actually produce anything. No work of real value gets done, the wealth is eaten up by parasites.

I wish people would spend more time on logic tha excercising their egos.

[Canadian Blue]

Its about the most interesting thing I have ever heard on the web. LaRouche has real wisdom because he has been around for a long time.

Lyndon Larouche sounds like quite the nutjob. He's been labelled a conspiracy theorist, a loon, a nazi, an anit-semite. Considered a fascist by many as well. Not to mention claims that the Larouche movement is a political cult.

"In 2004, for example, $800,000 of earmarked U.S.taxpayer dollars went to Lyndon LaRouche, a convicted felon and complete space loon who has been running for president since 1980, and who has claimed, among other things, that Walter Mondale was a Soviet agent and Queen Elizabeth II is a drug dealer."

Here's some insight into the Larouche Movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaRouche_Youth_Movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaRouche_Movement#Criticism

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Oct20.html

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/zayed_center.htm

Richard Wagner (LaRouche considers Wagner to be a Satanist, and that his dramatic and visceral musical style was a precursor to Jazz, Country and Rock and Roll, all of which he considers thought-stopping and ultimately pornographic tools of social manipulation)

A sinister network of conspirators is about to plunge the world into a new Dark Age, LaRouche warns, but it's not too late. He can save mankind. That is why he must be elected president. "I have a better chance of being elected than you have of surviving if I'm not," LaRouche tells the assembly. "And that's a fact. It's not an exaggeration."

LaRouche, who lives and works behind a curtain of secrecy and security in Northern Virginia, has been asking that question for much of his public life. Always, he comes up with the same answer: People are out to get him. Powerful people -- Zionists, bankers, the British. People who control the Republican and Democratic parties and ensure his votes aren't counted. People, according to LaRouche and his followers, who have plotted to send brainwashed zombies to assassinate him.

LaRouche and his international network of organizations champion an eccentric mix of issues. They've lobbied the music world to lower the standard pitch of middle "C" to spare singers vocal strain. They've advocated quarantining AIDS patients. They want to send manned fusion-powered spacecraft to establish a permanent colony on Mars.

LaRouche, who expresses loathing for timid conformists, wears belligerence like a badge. He and his supporters accuse perceived enemies of slander, crimes, plots and perversions. Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda had nothing to do with the September 11, 2001, attacks, LaRouche says. Elements within the U.S. military launched the attacks as an attempted coup. Defense Undersecretary Paul Wolfowitz was one of the conspirators, LaRouche claims, along with former secretary of state Henry Kissinger and the Israeli army.

LaRouche is more than a mischief-maker; he's a felon. In 1988, LaRouche was convicted of mail fraud, conspiracy to commit mail fraud, and conspiracy to hide his personal income. Prosecutors argued that aggressive LaRouche fundraisers solicited more than $30 million in loans from supporters, many elderly, with false assurances they'd be repaid. While some lenders lost their life savings, the LaRouche organization spent millions on property, a swimming pool and a horse riding ring, according to testimony.

LaRouche's mother wanted him to become a minister. Instead, he became a communist organizer. As a leader of the National Caucus of Labor Committees, LaRouche ordered a series of physical attacks on rival groups, according to King. The attacks, which King says involved beatings with metal pipes, clubs and martial arts devices known as nunchuks, took place in New York and other cities in 1973 and 1974, and became known among leftists as "Operation Mop-Up." LaRouche's autobiography maintains that he and his followers were acting in self-defense.

Civic leaders who criticized LaRouche were denounced by followers and in LaRouche literature as commies, homosexuals, drug pushers or international terrorists. According to one published report, LaRouche denounced the Leesburg Garden Club as a "nest" of Soviet sympathizers.

If anyone in the audience found this scenario too fantastic, LaRouche had an answer: It was not safe for them to trust their own thoughts. They needed to be retrained to recognize the truth. "Don't trust your own independent thinking," LaRouche said. "You probably don't have any independent thinking. But you delude yourself that you do."

A June 2002 Zayed Center conference, titled "The Middle East as a Strategic Crossroad," featured presentations by government ministers from Middle Eastern nations and a speech from the notorious American anti-Semite Lyndon LaRouche. In the question-and-answer session after his speech, LaRouche detailed his paranoid beliefs about the September 11 attacks and the Jews he claims are controlling American foreign policy. According to LaRouche, Osama bin Laden "could never have" orchestrated the September 11 attacks, which he believes "could not have happened without the connivance of something inside, very high level, inside the United States military command." LaRouche pointed to the "Zionist lobby," "Jewish gangsters," and "Christian Zionists" as forces that have sought to control U.S. policies towards Israel and have been "bought by money, the so-called Zionist money, and the mega crowd in New York."

I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the 9/11 conspiracy movement have some anti-semitic elements to it.

[White Doors]

Its about the most interesting thing I have ever heard on the web. LaRouche has real wisdom because he has been around for a long time.

Lyndon Larouche sounds like quite the nutjob. He's been labelled a conspiracy theorist, a loon, a nazi, an anit-semite. Considered a fascist by many as well. Not to mention claims that the Larouche movement is a political cult.

"In 2004, for example, $800,000 of earmarked U.S.taxpayer dollars went to Lyndon LaRouche, a convicted felon and complete space loon who has been running for president since 1980, and who has claimed, among other things, that Walter Mondale was a Soviet agent and Queen Elizabeth II is a drug dealer."

Here's some insight into the Larouche Movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaRouche_Youth_Movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaRouche_Movement#Criticism

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Oct20.html

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/zayed_center.htm

Richard Wagner (LaRouche considers Wagner to be a Satanist, and that his dramatic and visceral musical style was a precursor to Jazz, Country and Rock and Roll, all of which he considers thought-stopping and ultimately pornographic tools of social manipulation)

A sinister network of conspirators is about to plunge the world into a new Dark Age, LaRouche warns, but it's not too late. He can save mankind. That is why he must be elected president. "I have a better chance of being elected than you have of surviving if I'm not," LaRouche tells the assembly. "And that's a fact. It's not an exaggeration."

LaRouche, who lives and works behind a curtain of secrecy and security in Northern Virginia, has been asking that question for much of his public life. Always, he comes up with the same answer: People are out to get him. Powerful people -- Zionists, bankers, the British. People who control the Republican and Democratic parties and ensure his votes aren't counted. People, according to LaRouche and his followers, who have plotted to send brainwashed zombies to assassinate him.

LaRouche and his international network of organizations champion an eccentric mix of issues. They've lobbied the music world to lower the standard pitch of middle "C" to spare singers vocal strain. They've advocated quarantining AIDS patients. They want to send manned fusion-powered spacecraft to establish a permanent colony on Mars.

LaRouche, who expresses loathing for timid conformists, wears belligerence like a badge. He and his supporters accuse perceived enemies of slander, crimes, plots and perversions. Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda had nothing to do with the September 11, 2001, attacks, LaRouche says. Elements within the U.S. military launched the attacks as an attempted coup. Defense Undersecretary Paul Wolfowitz was one of the conspirators, LaRouche claims, along with former secretary of state Henry Kissinger and the Israeli army.

LaRouche is more than a mischief-maker; he's a felon. In 1988, LaRouche was convicted of mail fraud, conspiracy to commit mail fraud, and conspiracy to hide his personal income. Prosecutors argued that aggressive LaRouche fundraisers solicited more than $30 million in loans from supporters, many elderly, with false assurances they'd be repaid. While some lenders lost their life savings, the LaRouche organization spent millions on property, a swimming pool and a horse riding ring, according to testimony.

LaRouche's mother wanted him to become a minister. Instead, he became a communist organizer. As a leader of the National Caucus of Labor Committees, LaRouche ordered a series of physical attacks on rival groups, according to King. The attacks, which King says involved beatings with metal pipes, clubs and martial arts devices known as nunchuks, took place in New York and other cities in 1973 and 1974, and became known among leftists as "Operation Mop-Up." LaRouche's autobiography maintains that he and his followers were acting in self-defense.

Civic leaders who criticized LaRouche were denounced by followers and in LaRouche literature as commies, homosexuals, drug pushers or international terrorists. According to one published report, LaRouche denounced the Leesburg Garden Club as a "nest" of Soviet sympathizers.

If anyone in the audience found this scenario too fantastic, LaRouche had an answer: It was not safe for them to trust their own thoughts. They needed to be retrained to recognize the truth. "Don't trust your own independent thinking," LaRouche said. "You probably don't have any independent thinking. But you delude yourself that you do."

A June 2002 Zayed Center conference, titled "The Middle East as a Strategic Crossroad," featured presentations by government ministers from Middle Eastern nations and a speech from the notorious American anti-Semite Lyndon LaRouche. In the question-and-answer session after his speech, LaRouche detailed his paranoid beliefs about the September 11 attacks and the Jews he claims are controlling American foreign policy. According to LaRouche, Osama bin Laden "could never have" orchestrated the September 11 attacks, which he believes "could not have happened without the connivance of something inside, very high level, inside the United States military command." LaRouche pointed to the "Zionist lobby," "Jewish gangsters," and "Christian Zionists" as forces that have sought to control U.S. policies towards Israel and have been "bought by money, the so-called Zionist money, and the mega crowd in New York."

I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the 9/11 conspiracy movement have some anti-semitic elements to it.

I'd be very interested to see what Polynewbie thinks about these quotes. That is if he hasn't drank the kool-aifd yet of course.

[ft.niagara]

I think polynewbe's critics have not listened to his link. This is a very long video and takes too much time for those visiting this forum. It has just as possible a take on things as any other.

As far as flouride, I do not think that it is a conspiracy to poison people, but there is logic to the criticism of its use in the drinking water as a medicine which is only applicable to a segment of the population whose teeth are under construction (the young). In its higher levels, it is poisonous, just as is the mercury in fillings, which has been an issue to many.

[PolyNewbie]

Sure there is a lot of controversy around Lyndon Larouche, I have listened to what he has to say and it works well with things I already believe. He knows enough about ancient history to make the speech interesting and worthwhile.

Many people say there is a great big conspiracy for world government that has been going on for a very long time. Many people have said something to this affect like Kennedy and Larry MacDonald. The current Ron Paul certainly believes there is a grand conspiracy for world takeover by the banks. The banks have even spoken of such a conspiracy and basically admitted it. We have been warned about it be other bankers in the 30's.

[kimmy]

I think polynewbe's critics have not listened to his link. This is a very long video and takes too much time for those visiting this forum. It has just as possible a take on things as any other.

Sorry, but my free time is precious, and I'm not willing to throw 3 and a half hours of it away listening to a speech by a guy who's widely considered a kook. That's why I asked Newb for the Cole's Notes version, and from his explanation it sounds like a very weak theory.

Who'd want to spend 3 and a half hours listening to a crazy-person talk about a weak theory?

Not really anymore - they have schools in elsewhere. What about when they figure it all out and do not need us anymore. ? Then we have nothing to offer the world community and they own us because we have forgotten how to engineer because they have been doing it for us ? Where does that leave us as their society leaps ahead of ours as we forget everything ?

It's a large, and unjustified, leap in logic to assume that just because low-pay, low-skill jobs have gone overseas, high-skilled jobs will do the same. The factors that give these nations an advantage in manufacturing simply don't exist in other areas of enterprise.

This is basically just a new spin on the same old theme. It's been, what, about 20 years since we were told that eliminating trade barriers in North America would turn us into a third-world nation? 15 years since Ross Perot was sounding off about the "giant sucking sound" of jobs flying south of the border? And, while there's always individual winners and losers from every economic change, our society as a whole continues to become more prosperous than ever.

-k

[Canadian Blue]

Many people say there is a great big conspiracy for world government that has been going on for a very long time. Many people have said something to this affect like Kennedy and Larry MacDonald. The current Ron Paul certainly believes there is a grand conspiracy for world takeover by the banks. The banks have even spoken of such a conspiracy and basically admitted it. We have been warned about it be other bankers in the 30's.

Can it be linked to this....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Internationally, the Nazi Party believed that an international banking cabal was behind the global depression of the 1930s. Control of this cabal, which had grown to a position where it controlled both Europe and the United States, was identified with an elite and powerful group of Jews. However, a number of people believed that this was part of an ongoing plot by the Jewish people, as a whole, to achieve global domination. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which began its circulation in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century, were said to have confirmed this, already showing "evidence" that the Bolshevik takeover in Russia was in accordance with one of the protocols. Broadly speaking, the existence of large international banking or merchant banking organizations was well known at this time. Many of these banking organizations were able to exert influence upon nation states by extension or withholding of credit. This influence is not limited to the small states that preceded the creation of the German Empire as a nation state in the 1870s, but is noted in most major histories of all European powers from the 16th century onward. Nevertheless, after the Great Depression, this libelous and unverified manuscript took on an important role in Nazi Germany, thus providing another link in the Nazis ideological motivation for the destruction of that group in the Holocaust.

Once again another reason why I rarely pay attention to the likes of Lyndon Larouche.

According to some psychologists, a person who believes in one conspiracy theory is often a believer in other conspiracy theories and conversely for a person who does not believe in one conspiracy theory there is a lower probability that he, or she, will believe in another one.[9] This may be attributable to differences in the information upon which parties rely in formulating their conclusions. Thus, a person who believes in a particular conspiracy theory may do so because of awareness of information which is not shared by those that disbelieve the conspiracy theory. In turn, awareness of such information may be correlated with awareness of other information which increases the likelihood that one will believe in other conspiracy theories. Conversely, the lack of awareness of such information may be correlated with the lack of awareness of other information which decreases the likelihood that one will believe in other conspiracy theories.[citation needed]

Psychologists believe that the search for meaningfulness features largely in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories. That desire alone may be powerful enough to lead to the initial formulation of the idea[citation needed]. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part.

Evolutionary psychology may also play a significant role. Paranoid tendencies are associated with an animal's ability to recognize danger[citation needed]. Higher animals attempt to construct mental models of the thought processes of both rivals and predators in order to read their hidden intentions and to predict their future behavior. Such an ability is extremely valuable in sensing and avoiding danger in an animal community. If this danger-sensing ability should begin making false predictions, or be triggered by benign evidence, or otherwise become pathological, the result is paranoid delusions.

Here's another link that I think most will find interesting.

http://www.urban75.org/info/conspiraloons.html

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue: You cannot seem to address the points in the arguement, instead you just post links to sites saying that conspiracy theorists are crazy as if its actually proof of something. Of course conspiracies exist - you cannot deny this. If conspiracies exist would it be wrong to talk about them or should we ignore them ?

Why don't you explain why you believe the 911 was carried out by Islamic terrorists ? You are absolutely convinced of this so why don't you explain your reasoning ?

[Canadian Blue]

Canadian Blue: You cannot seem to address the points in the arguement, instead you just post links to sites saying that conspiracy theorists are crazy as if its actually proof of something. Of course conspiracies exist - you cannot deny this. If conspiracies exist would it be wrong to talk about them or should we ignore them ?

Conspiracy theorists are crazy look at the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. As well I linked your previous argument to the same argument the Nazi's made against the jews.

If they all have a basis in phaser beams which destroyed a building yes. Especially when the mainstream media for the most part ignores them.

Besides most conspiracy theories are usually made up by paranoid people. I wouldn't be surprised if most conspiracy theories are thought up by people who have the following conditions. paranoia, denial, schizophrenia, mean world syndrome.

I provided my argument which was based on what the experts said. Since I am by no means an expert, simply a rational person.

As well your support of Lyndon Larouche who is an anti-semite, and has been accused of being a nazi doesn't really help your case that much. Unless its part of the "Jewish conspiracy".

Alot of these 9/11 theories also have anti-semitic undertones to them. Which is why I don't pay attention to them. The facts are usually obscure and not substantial enough to warrant a concern.

[PolyNewbie]

I do believe that Israel has an unreasonable amount of control over the USA. I have not yet been convinced that Israel had something to do with 911 - more than Canada and other countries anyway. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Israel was behind the attacks on 911. There is some strong evidence to show that Israel was not involved - primarily because it does not benefit from the attacks.

The war in Israel and Palestine & the other Arab countries is about water. Western influence on Arabic society has put fundamentalist governments in power in the Middle East to keep the fires of hatred burning because a de stabilised Middle East serves USA interest as well as Israeli interest as long as the fires of hate burn. No one in the Middle East is benefitting from the current situation over the way it is being managed.

If Middle Easern countries were permitted to put populist governments in power then Israel would not be such a hated enemy and therefore would not have the current need of defending itself. It could invest in desalinization plants on a large scale and all the Arabs would be happily drinking Israeli water.

The West would be happier too because we would pay less taxes and have less war and death and destruction.

The world doesn't work this way because people on a large scale do not run the world. A very concentrated wealth runs the world and it does so in their interest.

When you consider your use of the term "anti semetic" is incorrect and molds your thinking you may begin to realize how much of a thought controlled person you are. The Semetic peoples are Arabic not Israeli, but your thinking has been purposely warped to give "Jews" a new name.

You say that for 911 you depend on experts. Your experts are hired by the government and sometimes are guilty of having an opinion suddenly turned 180 deg (The Mexican mine engineer who forst said there was no doubt about controlled demolition then changed his mind and said he agreed with official version)

If you really depended on the experts then you would look at the list of 911 experts I posted that not only had engineering expertise but also the expertise of the government that can only come from running it.

Plus there is www.st911.org another pile of scientists and engineers that say 911 was an inside job.

The list of people that say 911 was as the official version cannot be compared to the list of people who are stepping up and gaining nothing by it. Official version supporters are all gaining something by their support. The group of people saying 911 official version is a lie is far greater in numbers, experience, and expert knowledge and is therefore much more credible any way you look at it. You should therefore believe that 911 was an inside job.

[Canadian Blue]

When you consider your use of the term "anti semetic" is incorrect and molds your thinking you may begin to realize how much of a thought controlled person you are. The Semetic peoples are Arabic not Israeli, but your thinking has been purposely warped to give "Jews" a new name.

Usually, when somthing is considered anti-semitic, its considered anti-Jewish.

Anti-semite is commonly used, I guess many people are "thought controlled".

[sunsettommy]

This is an excellent presentation on the USA place in the world and the internal workings of the USA on a macro level.

It ties in the Crusades and why Rumsfeld & the gang are doing evrything they can to destroy the USA (Harper in Canada too) to re ignite the Crusades so that the world population can live under an oligarchy.

The Greatest Crisis In Modern History

LOL,

The old paranoia trick in posting a veriatable barrage of delusional paranoia is still here.

Give it up since Lyndon is a paranoid.

"Rumsfield and and the gang are doing everything everything they can to destroy America."

Yeah riiiiight!

Rumsfield has left his post in shame since he has failed to destroy America.

How can you be so taken in by Lyndon's paranoid B.S. Polynewbie?

[sunsettommy]

I do believe that Israel has an unreasonable amount of control over the USA. I have not yet been convinced that Israel had something to do with 911 - more than Canada and other countries anyway. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Israel was behind the attacks on 911. There is some strong evidence to show that Israel was not involved - primarily because it does not benefit from the attacks.

The stupid Jewish conspiracy tripe.

The war in Israel and Palestine & the other Arab countries is about water. Western influence on Arabic society has put fundamentalist governments in power in the Middle East to keep the fires of hatred burning because a de stabilised Middle East serves USA interest as well as Israeli interest as long as the fires of hate burn. No one in the Middle East is benefitting from the current situation over the way it is being managed.

No it is the provable Muslim hate against Israel that is the problem.They have repeatedly made it clear they want to wipe Israel of the map.

America supports Israel because it was set up by the U.N. and that it is a stable democratic nation with real freedoms and a good economy.

If Middle Easern countries were permitted to put populist governments in power then Israel would not be such a hated enemy and therefore would not have the current need of defending itself. It could invest in desalinization plants on a large scale and all the Arabs would be happily drinking Israeli water.

Israel are being attacked because they are Jews.The middle eastern countries hate Jews therefore they attack them.

They can simply buy water from Israel.

But Nooooooo they buy a lot of arms to attack Israel with.Money they could have used to build Desalination plants.

Remember it is the Muslims who does the attacking and the Jews who are defending.

[sunsettommy]

You say that for 911 you depend on experts. Your experts are hired by the government and sometimes are guilty of having an opinion suddenly turned 180 deg (The Mexican mine engineer who forst said there was no doubt about controlled demolition then changed his mind and said he agreed with official version)

If you really depended on the experts then you would look at the list of 911 experts I posted that not only had engineering expertise but also the expertise of the government that can only come from running it.

There are a lot of people with ZERO connections to the government who blast the paranoid 9/11 conspiracy.

Plus there is www.st911.org another pile of scientists and engineers that say 911 was an inside job.

The list of people that say 911 was as the official version cannot be compared to the list of people who are stepping up and gaining nothing by it. Official version supporters are all gaining something by their support. The group of people saying 911 official version is a lie is far greater in numbers, experience, and expert knowledge and is therefore much more credible any way you look at it. You should therefore believe that 911 was an inside job.

I have seen some of their stuff and man are they irrationally paranoid.

Just a few well placed criticisms of their crap have been posted and the rest can be safely ignored.

It is plain that you are easily taken in by consipracies.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue: Anti-semite is commonly used, I guess many people are "thought controlled".

Absolutely- thought control can be acheived through language. Many societies are run this way. Don't make the mistake that you are any smarter than people who worshipped the moon or thought the world was flat.

[PolyNewbie]

Many people believe that myth creation and maintainance is necessary to run a society. This is explained in The Report From Iron Mountain - which Wikipedia will tell you was a fake and a joke written by one man. Neither of these things are true and you can tell that when you read the document.

You can also see that many myths that were discussed in the report have come "true"

[kimmy]

Many people believe that myth creation and maintainance is necessary to run a society. This is explained in The Report From Iron Mountain - which Wikipedia will tell you was a fake and a joke written by one man. Neither of these things are true and you can tell that when you read the document.

You can also see that many myths that were discussed in the report have come "true"

It was not a "joke", it was satire. Inspired by a real event: a 1966 stock-market dip caused by the possibility of peace breaking out.

It was intended to be thought-provoking... and if things it predicted have come true, it's because good satire is a critical examination of reality. The author admitted it was a hoax in 1972, claiming that it was no longer necessary to maintain the hoax, because real documents coming out of the Pentagon made a parody redundant:

"The charade is over. Some of the documents read like parodies of Iron Mountain, rather than the reverse."

-Leonard C Lewin.

Museum of Hoaxes:

The mystery of who had written the report was revealed in 1972 when Lewin declared in an article in the New York Times that he had penned the entire report. In other words, there was no Special Study Group and no government plot to maintain a state of war. The entire report had been a hoax. More details of the creation of the hoax were given in 1996 when Simon & Schuster reprinted the Report with a new introduction.

Apparently, the genesis of the report occurred in 1966 when Victor Navasky, editor of the Monocle, a magazine of political satire, noticed a New York Times article reporting that the stock market had dipped because of a 'peace scare.' Navasky mentioned this to Lewin who then wrote the report. The two of them presented the report to E.L. Doctorow, editor of the Dial Press. Doctorow agreed to publish the work as nonfiction.

Navasky claimed that the purpose of the hoax had been "to provoke thinking about the unthinkable—the conversion to a peacetime economy and the absurdity of the arms race."

Even though Lewin and Navasky admitted that the report was a hoax, there still remain some who believe it to be an official government document that was leaked to the public. An ultra-rightwing group known as the Liberty Lobby is one such group. Believing that the report was evidence of a secret government plot, the group printed their own edition of the report. When Lewin found out about this, he sued them for copyright infringement. The case was settled out of court with the Liberty Lobby agreeing to pay Lewin an undisclosed sum.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

The report from Iron Mountain was real and it reads like it was real. It was not a joke and Lewin did not write it by himself. He had found a small publisher that would actually publish it (the big houses are under more control).

The report was written by a think tank.

It shocked the population when it was released and reached number six on NY times best seller. The population was later lead to believe it was a joke. It doesn't read like a joke.

John Kenneth Galbraith was one of its authors, he later said it was real.

[kimmy]

The report from Iron Mountain was real and it reads like it was real. It was not a joke and Lewin did not write it by himself. He had found a small publisher that would actually publish it (the big houses are under more control).

The report was written by a think tank.

It shocked the population when it was released and reached number six on NY times best seller. The population was later lead to believe it was a joke. It doesn't read like a joke.

You can tell it's real because it reads like it's real?

...

...do you actually understand the *concept* of what a hoax is?

John Kenneth Galbraith was one of its authors, he later said it was real.

Evidence? I want to read a credible source that quotes Galbraith as saying it was real.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

Its in the Crteature From Jekyll Island, which was released while Galbraith was alive in '94. I have the latest addition of this book. That would not be in there if it wasn't true. Griffin would get sued.

Did you ever think that maybe the public wasn't supposed to see it and after they did the gov just says "its not real...we were only kidding".

[White Doors]

And here is the list of experts that debunked all of the most popular 9/11 CT's in Popular mechanics.

I bet that they are all under governmnet control too...

Air Crash Analysis

Cleveland Center regional air traffic control

Bill Crowley special agent, FBI

Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants

Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.

Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,

ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes

Ed Jacoby Jr. director,

New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)

Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority

Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)

Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA

Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center

Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.

James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office

Jeff Pillets senior writer,

The Record, Hackensack, NJ

Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service

Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,

119th Wing, North Dakota

Air National Guard

Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene

Air Defense

Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,

U.S. Air Force

Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,

Tyndall Air Force Base

Boston Center regional air traffic control

Laura Brown spokeswoman,

Federal Aviation Administration

Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation

Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board

Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board

Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,

North American Aerospace Defense Command

Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,

Andrews AFB

Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command

John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org

Hank Price spokesman, Federal

Aviation Administration

Warren Robak RAND Corp.

Bill Shumann spokesman,

Federal Aviation Administration

Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB

Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport

Aviation

Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology

Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman

Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert

Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week

Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center

Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)

director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman

Image Analysis

William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,

FEMA Probe Team

Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group

Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week

Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.

Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University

Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness

Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,

University of California, San Diego

Structural Engineering / Building Collapse

Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction

David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report

Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.

Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee

Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety

John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team

Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts

Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.

CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response

Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University

William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA

John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor

Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,

Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University

James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon

Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.

acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology

Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University

Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,

San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

[kimmy]

Its in the Crteature From Jekyll Island, which was released while Galbraith was alive in '94. I have the latest addition of this book. That would not be in there if it wasn't true. Griffin would get sued.

Sure, and since David Icke has never been sued by the Bush family or the British royals, they're obviously 8-foot tall shapeshifting lizards. After all, if they weren't 8 foot tall lizards, why wouldn't they sue him for saying they were?

What a surprise that your "source" for this is a book from a guy who writes books about banking conspiracies, drug company conspiracies to keep the cure for cancer a secret, "chem-trails", and that stuff. I asked for a credible source, not another kook.

Did you ever think that maybe the public wasn't supposed to see it and after they did the gov just says "its not real...we were only kidding".

uh, the government never said "we were only kidding." The author did-- the guy who wrote the forward of the original edition, and got it published. Leonard Lewin. A guy who was known as a humorist and satirist even before Iron Mountain was published.

-k

[Canadian Blue]

And here is the list of experts that debunked all of the most popular 9/11 CT's in Popular mechanics.

I bet that they are all under governmnet control too...

The response I got was that they are all towing the government line or else they will lose their jobs.

[White Doors]

And here is the list of experts that debunked all of the most popular 9/11 CT's in Popular mechanics.

I bet that they are all under governmnet control too...

The response I got was that they are all towing the government line or else they will lose their jobs.

But of course!