Oh boy!

[B. Max]

What sulfur problem. Sulfur is extracted largely by sub plants and then sent to the fertilizer plants or is stored in blocks the size of city blocks and a hundred feet high on site at those sub plants.

It made the news this past summer.

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/est...p_acidrain.html

You must mean potential problem. More hype than reality.

There is... growing concern about the potential for acid rain impacts in western Canada due to expected increases

[jdobbin]

You must mean potential problem. More hype than reality.

There is... growing concern about the potential for acid rain impacts in western Canada due to expected increases

Sulfur in the ground was an issue for Alberta farmers this year. One of the reasons why Green Party support has risen in the province.

[B. Max]

You must mean potential problem. More hype than reality.

There is... growing concern about the potential for acid rain impacts in western Canada due to expected increases

Sulfur in the ground was an issue for Alberta farmers this year. One of the reasons why Green Party support has risen in the province.

I don't think so. On either account. If the farmers are concerned about sulfer in the ground they are the ones who put it there. It didn't come from the oil sands.

[jdobbin]

I don't think so. On either account. If the farmers are concerned about sulfer in the ground they are the ones who put it there. It didn't come from the oil sands.

Possibly. But increased levels are more likely to have fallen from the sky. As far as our opinion that the environment is not an area that Albertans are fewing with more caution, I think your mistaken.

[B. Max]

Possibly. But increased levels are more likely to have fallen from the sky. As far as our opinion that the environment is not an area that Albertans are fewing with more caution, I think your mistaken.

No, any increases are directly from the fertilizer. An ingredient that makes up fertilizer. The same fertilizer farmers have been putting on their fields for years and then is taken up by whatever they are growing. If you think that's bad what about the anhydrous ammonia they put on the fields that is used for growing canola.

[jdobbin]

There is... growing concern about the potential for acid rain impacts in western Canada due to expected increases

As far as acid rain goes, the Alberta government is looking into it.

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/new...33-1adb3613fdc4

[B. Max]

There is... growing concern about the potential for acid rain impacts in western Canada due to expected increases

As far as acid rain goes, the Alberta government is looking into it.

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/new...33-1adb3613fdc4

I wonder how much money sask. is looking for. My response to that is maybe we should be looking into sending the thousands and thousands of sask. people back to sask. who are working in the alberta oil patch.

[jdobbin]

I wonder how much money sask. is looking for. My response to that is maybe we should be looking into sending the thousands and thousands of sask. people back to sask. who are working in the alberta oil patch.

Since they've never gotten money before, I expect they will ask for none. How about a reduction in emissions which you say are not a problem.

[B. Max]

I wonder how much money sask. is looking for. My response to that is maybe we should be looking into sending the thousands and thousands of sask. people back to sask. who are working in the alberta oil patch.

Since they've never gotten money before, I expect they will ask for none. How about a reduction in emissions which you say are not a problem.

Get real, sask. has been on the dole for years and destoyed their own economy which is why people fled from there to alberta for years. I say whatever emissions there are are not a problem but rather an invention.

[Hydraboss]

The whole country likes to take shots at Alberta for "polluting this" and "contributing to that" but if Alberta reduces its oilpatch and oil supply falls, or it reduces its oilpatch and natural gas pipelines to the east aren't up to full pressure, prices will rise. And then the moaning and bitching will start! Why is everything so expensive?????? Why don't they just increase production so my gas is cheaper??????

There's no making anyone happy, and therefore I say...to hell with it. Let Alberta seperate, and sell its products to the highest bidder. No more Liberals. No more Feds. No more Kyotocrime. If you're going to bitch, we'll give you a reason.

And we'll control our own immigration.

NO MORE TRANSFER PAYMENTS!!! WHOO-HOO!!!!!!!

[B. Max]

The whole country likes to take shots at Alberta for "polluting this" and "contributing to that" but if Alberta reduces its oilpatch and oil supply falls, or it reduces its oilpatch and natural gas pipelines to the east aren't up to full pressure, prices will rise. And then the moaning and bitching will start! Why is everything so expensive?????? Why don't they just increase production so my gas is cheaper??????

There's no making anyone happy, and therefore I say...to hell with it. Let Alberta seperate, and sell its products to the highest bidder. No more Liberals. No more Feds. No more Kyotocrime. If you're going to bitch, we'll give you a reason.

And we'll control our own immigration.

NO MORE TRANSFER PAYMENTS!!! WHOO-HOO!!!!!!!

Right on!

[Charles Anthony]

Let Alberta seperate, and sell its products to the highest bidder. No more Liberals. No more Feds. No more Kyotocrime. If you're going to bitch, we'll give you a reason.

If it is so easy, why are you waiting?!?!?

I think the only difference between Albertans and rest-of-Canadians is that they have oil. I doubt they have the courage to stand on their own.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Let Alberta seperate, and sell its products to the highest bidder. No more Liberals. No more Feds. No more Kyotocrime. If you're going to bitch, we'll give you a reason.

If it is so easy, why are you waiting?!?!?

I think the only difference between Albertans and rest-of-Canadians is that they have oil. I doubt they have the courage to stand on their own.

Perhaps you are right, but perhaps not. Indications will become visible after the new premier is APPOINTED by the fascist dictatorship currenty in power. A provincial general election should follow in the spring at which point an accurate timelime can be projected. The tory government will likely be reduced in power by a dozen or more seats in the Alberta Legislature. The next government will be the one to take the fall in 2011. By 2012 Alberta will in fact be free.

Care to wager?.....

[Hydraboss]

Let Alberta seperate, and sell its products to the highest bidder. No more Liberals. No more Feds. No more Kyotocrime. If you're going to bitch, we'll give you a reason.

If it is so easy, why are you waiting?!?!?

I think the only difference between Albertans and rest-of-Canadians is that they have oil. I doubt they have the courage to stand on their own.

Nowhere in my post did I say that it would be easy. Anything worth having or doing rarely is.

Courage? I think that you are misleading yourself if you feel that Albertans lack the courage. They are no doubt hesitant, but I believe that this is more because of laziness to change the welfare-state mentality of supporting the ROC (Ontario excepted). After so many years of supporting others on national welfare, it is not only impossible for the ROC to give up as receipients, but for Albertans to end the handouts as the providers. This is comparable to the parent that just can't let their children make their own way and their own mistakes. The ROC will forever live in the basement suites of Alberta and Ontario, eating TV dinners that their parents bought, collecting their cheques to go out on Friday night, and complaining that it's not enough.

As for Alberta being no different than the rest of Canada, I strongly disagree. We need nothing from the other parts of the country. A great number of the anti-oil (anti-Alberta?) crowd that posts here are from the east. They complain about the environment by typing it on a plastic keyboard made from natural gas stock. Just where do these people think the products of the oilpatch go? Ask the Dow Chemical people, the BP Canada people, and the EMC (Exxon-Mobil-Imperial) people about Sarnia, and about where they get their NG feedstock.

If Alberta were to firewall itself either on a national basis, or just a resource basis, the east would have to either buy from us, or from the States, who in turn would buy somewhat from Alberta. Net reduction in emissions of zero.

Without a doubt, Alberta could stand on it's own. Maybe we should apply for "distinct society" status? Being financially independant and debt free certainly makes us different from other parts of Canada. According to the ROC, we say "ya'all" and "howdy" all the time, so does that qualify as a language? I think we meet the requirements of the definition.

Maybe our next Premiere should be Duceppe. We'd just have to give him Stephen's cowboy hat.

[Hydraboss]

By the way, could anyone name the other provinces that could seperate and accept their portion of the national debt and the CPP unfunded liability?

Just curious who they are.

[geoffrey]

By the way, could anyone name the other provinces that could seperate and accept their portion of the national debt and the CPP unfunded liability?

Just curious who they are.

Ontario may be able to...

I'm slightly more optimistic about staying in Canada, reworking a deal that is fair to Alberta instead of the current colonization method.

Alberta is to Ontario what New France and other colonies were to French empire during their empirical period. A source of cheap raw materials under their political control and a market for their refined goods. Other than that, Alberta just gets shit on by every possible Federal policy from either the CPC or the Liberals.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Alberta has no federal debt liability. WE have more than paid it back through our equalization payments. Why on earth should Alberta have to negotiate a fair deal? Why retain the known flaws of the parlimentary system? Its time for us to leave and live by our own rules, or do people think we should hang around and subsidize the rest of of Canada forever?

[Hydraboss]

Jerry, I agree that we have more than paid what we owe, but since I do not endorse a "nasty breakup" with the ROC, I think we could be the grown-ups here and accept a per capita share of the national debt and a per capita (or whatever the accepted formula is) portion of the CPP unfunded liability. This allows us to leave on good terms and maintain excellent trading relationships with the ROC and the international community.

Can Ontario stand alone? Maybe. It's up to them to try if they want to.

Geoffrey, you believe in reworking a deal that is fair. It will never happen. The people with the power will not give up the power. I heard this everytime I brought up separation. "Wait till the Liberals take power, then things will change." "Wait till the CPC takes power, then things will change." Nothing will change. Ever.

Optimism is great as long as there is something to be optimistic about. At your stage in life you have what I had...a believe that Canada can be better. Keep it for as long as you can. Mine is long gone.

Separation is the only way Alberta will end the "prisoner that dropped the soap" reality. I'm tired of it, and I don't want my kids to have to be as cynical as I have become.

[B. Max]

Alberta has no federal debt liability. WE have more than paid it back through our equalization payments. Why on earth should Alberta have to negotiate a fair deal? Why retain the known flaws of the parlimentary system? Its time for us to leave and live by our own rules, or do people think we should hang around and subsidize the rest of of Canada forever?

I agree. If Alberta were to accept an equal share of the debt without first deducting what we've already paid through equalization it would be like paying twice. One has to laugh at the argument that is often used by federalists for Alberta staying in the country. That is, if Alberta separates and the oil runs out we wouldn't get any equalization payments from the rest of the country. If that were the case, then why are we paying them now if they have all this money or supposedly will have it. Reality is much different. If Alberta left today that would leave Ontario to pick up the slack of another eleven billion a year. Something they wouldn't do. In fact the whole scheme would explode at the seams.

[Riverwind]

I agree. If Alberta were to accept an equal share of the debt without first deducting what we've already paid through equalization it would be like paying twice.

This is a perfect example of why any break up of the country would be an economic disaster for everyone. Every province - including Newfoundland - can come with numbers to 'prove' that their contributions to the federation exceed their per-capital share of the federal debt. The squabbling over the debt would go on for generations while the currency collapsed and interest rates rose.

[Hydraboss]

Which is exactly why I endorse paying our share AGAIN. It's BS, but it ends the squabbling. The ROC would not be justified in bitching anymore. Alberta can handle it's share AGAIN, but then the welfare ends. Forever.

If there is an "economic disaster", it would not happen in Alberta. If it does, that's our problem and you can be assured that we won't come crying to the ROC for help. Time for the ROC to quit whining, and move the hell out of Mom and Dad's house.

[Led Boots]

How to make Canadian pie (tourtiere(sp) for you Kwee-becker’s)

2 cups-Alberta

1 cup-Saskatchewan

3/4 cup-BC

1/2 cup-Ontario

1/4 cup-Newfoundland

1/3 cup-miscellaneous

3 tbl spoons-boom and doom economy

Mix vigorously in a bowl with a land mass of 661 190 sq. km’s.

Bake in a temperate oven for 101years then drizzle with copious amounts of crude oil and natural gas to taste.

This is no longer the Alberta of our parents and grandparents Jerry.

[Hydraboss]

How to make a Canadian Pie, The Sequel

8 cups - Alberta

10 cups - Ontario

1/4 cup - British Columbia

Mix ingredients in Ottawa. Take out 6 cups and give to Kwebec. Promise Kwebec that there is more coming. Divide remainder of mixture amongst remaining provinces and territories.

Let Alberta and Ontario simmer.

Add 4 more cups - Alberta

Add 5 more cups - Ontario

Sprinkle Liberally with federal government BS and platitudes. Remove 6 cups and give to Kwebec. Send remainder of mixture to overseas countries that no one has ever heard of.

Bring to boil for 101 years.

Place in separatist oven and heat until it explodes.

This is no longer the Alberta of our parents and grandparents.

It is the Alberta of my generation and my children's generation.

Separate now.

[cybercoma]

Cybercoma; You may well have moved from Windsor, ON to Fredericton, but Fredericton is definitely not Saint John, so don't profess to lecture on the air quality in Saint John since you don't live here. I moved out of Saint John to Grand Bay-Westfield in an effort to be able to breathe some unpolluted air. Yes I do have asthma and breathing the air in Saint John is definitely injurious. In fact a friend of mine whom I worked with often times could not work his shift when the wind was blowing in the wrong direction, because of difficulty breathing. We worked in a group home directly up the valley from the existing refinery, and I can't believe that you could even suggest that breathing petroleum fumes would not be injurious to one's health. The last attack my friend had after breathing the polluted air, he died on the way to the ER in the ambulance.

Fredericton is close to 100 km. up the highway from Saint John, and I might be able to have the same opinion as you do, had I not lived most of my life breathing Saint John's polluted air. Everytime I drive toward Saint John on hazy day, as you approach the outskirsts of Saint John you can observe a browish haze hanging over the city, and I'm quite sure that Fredericton has no such brown haze, or at least I have never seen such a haze on my many trips to Fredericton for meetings.

Fredericton may not have such a haze, but Windsor, ON certainly does and the pollution in Saint John pales in comparison to what I lived with for almost 30 years there. Four thousand transport trucks a day spewing diesel fumes, thick black soot a block away from my home...that's what I've had to live with. Green, yellow, red and brown smoke floating across the border just downriver from the Detroit skyline....that's what I was breathing for nearly 30 years.

Yeah, Saint John is polluted, but not nearly to the extent of what I've lived in. It's pristine in comparison to the air in Windsor/Detroit, the automotive capital of north america.

I'm sorry about your friend, but I would suggest his pre-existing condition was exacerbated by and not necessarily caused by the environment.

Saint John simply isn't the s***hole people out here believe it to be. Yeah, the air is more polluted than other areas, but where else are there manufacturing jobs in this province like in SJ?

[Led Boots]

How to make a Canadian Pie, The Sequel

8 cups - Alberta

10 cups - Ontario

1/4 cup - British Columbia

Mix ingredients in Ottawa. Take out 6 cups and give to Kwebec. Promise Kwebec that there is more coming. Divide remainder of mixture amongst remaining provinces and territories.

Let Alberta and Ontario simmer.

Add 4 more cups - Alberta

Add 5 more cups - Ontario

Sprinkle Liberally with federal government BS and platitudes. Remove 6 cups and give to Kwebec. Send remainder of mixture to overseas countries that no one has ever heard of.

Bring to boil for 101 years.

Place in separatist oven and heat until it explodes.

This is no longer the Alberta of our parents and grandparents.

Heheh...can't really disagree with you if your point is that the federal govt. is an over bloated pig that steals from peter to pay paul but my point is that demographics are rapidly changing here and with these changes we are becoming more and more representitive of Canada as a whole.

Hell the young hip kids are calling us Ab. to the R.O.C.

It is the Alberta of my generation and my children's generation.

It is the Alberta of our generation and our children's generation. (Unless you've got a receipt for it that is.)

Separate now.

Giver. Lets have a referendum tomorrow and see what happens.

I'll live by the results, will you?