"West won’t win Afghan war"

[Argus]

You think Bill Frist sits on his ass in Canada listening to people who are sitting on their asses in North America?

From what I understand, Bill Frist is an incredibly venal, ambitious man who has basically done nothing and said nothing and taken no position on anything EVER with anything in mind but personal self-promotion. He's a ruthless social climber and powermonger who has never hesitated to flip-flop on positions if he thinks it will benefit him.

The war is not very popular right now, and most figure Frist is going to run for President in 2008. It would not surprise me, given Frist's history, to learn he's deliberately taken a position which he'll be able to point to as moderation come election time.

[Army Guy]

My time back at Base Camp is coming to a close, and won't be able to post for awhile.

gerryhatrick:

Armyguy, the Afghanistan mission is obviously an emotional issue for you. You should look upon information regarding it with a little more cold impartiality

Yes, Afghanistan is a emotional issue, but not just for me, for the rest of us here, for those families awaiting the return of thier loved ones, for those wifes, girlfriends that spend most of thier day watching the news hoping the next attack does not claim thier loved one, For those comrads that were left Back in Canada, And i'm hoping for the rest of the country.

I have looked at the information, and for reasons already stated it is not a valid opition, And if Mr. layton or this senator had actually taken a tour of Afgan and talked to it's people they would not be spewing this defeatist attitude. That only serves to strenghten the enemies cause. Nothing more.

The taliban insurgents are nothing more than bullies, thugs, and murders, anyone that could kill or maim a young child "there still babies, for christ sake" for as little as going to school, or talking to a coalition soldier.

Think about that for a minute..... because i think about my time i shared my lunch with a young girl that had her hands cut off with an axe, and her father murdered in front of her for going to school...(she was 6 years old at the time) A mere baby herself...emotional Damn right it's emotional.

Everyday Canadians are guilted into sending monie to relief agencys by TV commercials such as feed the children, or world famine but Canadians are writing the Afgans off, But i've yet to see any of those organizations here in Afgan, are those nations that do recieve thier help any more deserving "NO", and yet, we as a nation do not think Afgan is worth the effort, the investment, the lives of our soldiers. These people need our help, they need us to prop them up again, for someone to say we've got your back, we're here to help. Canadians forgot that, Canadians forget that historically that is what we do, we help those in need...

So in regards to the taliban:

They do not or should not be allowed to share power in running that country. In fact they as a group should not even be allowed in the country. And instead of us talking about surrendering or calling it a tie, and bringing them in to share power, everyone in the west should be directing all thier energies towards ensuring these vermin are eliminated and can not spread thier hate to the afgan people any more. And if that draws more insurgents with the same mind set and ideals out of the woodwork.... i say bring it on baby...We as a nation need to stay focused.

Bill Frist is the polar opposite of Layton politically. Frist is a huge supporter of Bush and the war on terror. I say that only because it should lend some perspective to his opinions when they appear on the surface to match those of Layton.

They maybe polictically opposite but they share the same opinons, or solutions. and that does not make it the right solution or direction we should traval.

I appreciate that you are on the front lines, but that does not give you a lock on the reality of Afghanistan anymore than a US Senator has. In reality, Frist probably knows more of the reality than you would.

And maybe your right, i do not or have not proclaim to be an expert, but the real differance is i'm getting my info first hand, not off sanitisied,and edited reports. I've seen the taliban and thier tactics up close and personal, i've seen the pain and destruction they have delivered to thier own people. I see it every day. i talk to the people every day. What i bring to the table is the only my opinon, one that i must add is not based on selling more copies, or digging for votes. i have nothing to gain by telling you what i see or say, other than perhaps another tour in this country. Just because it is published in the media does not mean it is true, or the best decission, but rather someones opinion...

[Army Guy]

jdobbin:

Sorry for the loss of the two Canadian soldiers today. News is still sketchy about what happened. Only a CP story thus far.

It's a loss for all of us, there is one thing i will never get use to here, is paying tribute to fallen comrads and saying our final good byes. Hero's one and all, and may they never be forgotten. My thoughts and prayers are for the families, they are the ones that need our support now.

Perhaps Canadians at home will take a page from our book, and show the same resolve and passion for this mission as we do, everyday becoming more determined to bring peace to this region.

These troops were conducting re construction, something that was reported a few days ago as "not" happening. now you can see why things get confusing. the media is not researching thier stories, and printing what ever they want.

The lift helicopters that that Canadian military once owned are right there in Afghanistan. The Dutch own them now. Mulroney sold them

A fact they constantly remind us off, in fact they are in the same base camp that we share. but they are heavily tasked and we rarely have access to them, kind of ironic...

As far as equipment, the Liberal government rushed in the G-Wagons, the Conservatives have rushed in the Leopards. I wish that they could get lift helicopters but even the last Conservative budget didn't have any money allocated for them

Yes the G-wagons were re-directed to threater, but they were already part of a planned purchase arrange before the Afgan mission. as for the leo's we've owned them before i joined the forces, and that was more DND bringing over equipment we already had...

The Conservatives did actually put some cash aside for new chinnoks, 15 i think but they are not due until 2010. these helos would really have an effect on how many convoys we put on the road...

The NDP and the Liberals didn't start the fire of Afghanistan. It was pretty much going on years before Canada arrived. And in fairness to the job of opposition in a parliamentary government, the Official Opposition are there to criticize the mission whether that be on the lack of equipment or the "winnability" of the war itself.

Then again niether did the conseratives. but the opposition arn't really be debating the fact of lack of equipment,are they.

I suspect that if this low grade war goes 10 years, the arguments about Canada backing its troops will take a turn. Perhaps the troops will be asking why they are being used as fodder for a war that doesn't have an end.

But that is not what the troops are saying right now. I think that message is slow getting out.

[Wilber]

You think Bill Frist sits on his ass in Canada listening to people who are sitting on their asses in North America?

Just shut it, please.

No, I think you sit on your ass in Canada listening to people who are sitting on their asses in North America.

And no.

[Wilber]

Stay safe Army Guy. Hope we hear from you soon.

[killjoy]

These troops were conducting re construction, something that was reported a few days ago as "not" happening. now you can see why things get confusing. the media is not researching thier stories, and printing what ever they want.

yyyyep. You can scream it till you're blue in the face. Doesn't matter. They read the paper. They know what's happening there.

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[jdobbin]

yyyyep. You can scream it till you're blue in the face. Doesn't matter. They read the paper. They know what's happening there.

The military needs a better spokeman then. The head of the reconstruction team was quoted as saying they weren't able to leave the base. It was a CP story in every paper. On radio, I head the same speech but it was amended to say "without being attacked."

Seems that the radio story may have been more accurate. The reconstruction team can leave the base but they are attacked pretty consistently. More engineers were attacked today.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/04102006/2/nati...fghanistan.html

[killjoy]

The head of the reconstruction team was quoted as saying they weren't able to leave the base

No. He wasn't quoted like you or I would quote each other here. He had a question answer session with some reporters and they or the editors picked out the best parts to tell the story that's expected of them. Really no different than the way intelligence agencies do it and we can all see how much the truth of a situation matters to them.

They weren't able to leave the base. Today? Yesterday? Tomorrow? permanently? In this area? For the time being? For certain projects? ArmyGuy's lying?

Aren't you the guys that are always saying stuff like 'critical thought starts with questioning'? Unfortunately that requires visualization, which requires imagination and self-scrutiny, which is not only in short supply in our society but what is left is otherwise spent on conspiracies in flagrant disregard for probabilities (Occam). It means multiplying by B.S. factor which is something people never do if the story is in line with their perception.

Like I say, I could point this out until I'm blue in the face. Who's gonna listen to a guy on the Internet? You've got some creampuff in Toronto who writes in the News Paper and he knows what worth it and what isn't. What have I got that can compete with that? Well not enough time that's for sure. How ironic that if I strapped dynamite to my chest, walked in to a cafe, had my say for witnesses and blew myself up people would probably start thinking about it because it'd be on the front page for the next week.

The medium is the message.

.

[jdobbin]

It's a loss for all of us, there is one thing i will never get use to here, is paying tribute to fallen comrads and saying our final good byes. Hero's one and all, and may they never be forgotten. My thoughts and prayers are for the families, they are the ones that need our support now.

Perhaps Canadians at home will take a page from our book, and show the same resolve and passion for this mission as we do, everyday becoming more determined to bring peace to this region.

These troops were conducting re construction, something that was reported a few days ago as "not" happening. now you can see why things get confusing. the media is not researching thier stories, and printing what ever they want.

A fact they constantly remind us off, in fact they are in the same base camp that we share. but they are heavily tasked and we rarely have access to them, kind of ironic...

Yes the G-wagons were re-directed to threater, but they were already part of a planned purchase arrange before the Afgan mission. as for the leo's we've owned them before i joined the forces, and that was more DND bringing over equipment we already had...

The Conservatives did actually put some cash aside for new chinnoks, 15 i think but they are not due until 2010. these helos would really have an effect on how many convoys we put on the road...

Then again niether did the conseratives. but the opposition arn't really be debating the fact of lack of equipment,are they.

But that is not what the troops are saying right now. I think that message is slow getting out.

I think I mention in another post that I heard the same recontruction team spokesman say that they couldn't go out without being attacked. That is probably the more accurate statement, don't you think?

Any Canadian soldier putting their life on the line in combat should get the best equipment.

It is a separate issue of whether Canadians believe the mission is winnable though. It is not a reflection of the soldiers who are fighting but on the history of the region. The British empire sent 50,000 soldiers to the area to tame it. They had superior numbers, had almost all of Asia subjugated and couldn't get this one tribal area to stop fighting.

In the season opener of PBS's Frontline last night, they aired The Return of the Taliban.

Canada is not just fighting the Taliban. They're fighting Pakistan as well.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

The Taliban is getting their numbers replenished from them, they get money, they take sanctuary there. So long as this happens, the war could run for decades.

This is way beyond Canada's ability to handle. Pakistan is a nuclear nation. The only one that get Pakistan to heel is George Bush. And so far, he hasn't.

Canadians don't want to be cannon fodder. They want them to be successful. I think many Canadians are quite nervous that Afghanistan remains vulnerable to outside forces.

Stay safe out there. I'm always interested in hearing what's happening on the ground. At the same time, there are reports outside of Afghanistan such as that on Pakistan that make me quite apprehensive about the next months.

[jdobbin]

No. He wasn't quoted like you or I would quote each other here. He had a question answer session with some reporters and they or the editors picked out the best parts to tell the story that's expected of them. Really no different than the way intelligence agencies do it and we can all see how much the truth of a situation matters to them.

They weren't able to leave the base. Today? Yesterday? Tomorrow? permanently? In this area? For the time being? For certain projects? ArmyGuy's lying?

Aren't you the guys that are always saying stuff like 'critical thought starts with questioning'? Unfortunately that requires visualization, which requires imagination and self-scrutiny, which is not only in short supply in our society but what is left is otherwise spent on conspiracies in flagrant disregard for probabilities (Occam). It means multiplying by B.S. factor which is something people never do if the story is in line with their perception.

Like I say, I could point this out until I'm blue in the face. Who's gonna listen to a guy on the Internet? You've got some creampuff in Toronto who writes in the News Paper and he knows what worth it and what isn't. What have I got that can compete with that? Well not enough time that's for sure.

The medium is the message.

My understanding of the statement was that they were unable to leave the base for quite some time. As I said, I later heard the same speech a day later saying "without being attacked."

Military spokemen have said that reconstruction teams have been attacked three days in a row.

I don't know what the daily routine of the military is. Some of what they do gets reports, lots doesn't. I try to read or listen to as much as I can from a variety of sources. I don't neccessarily believe the news, politicians, the military or anyone has the full truth about events in Afghanistan.

The polls in Canada reflect fear that we are not hearing accurate news about Afghanistan.

[Wilber]

The polls in Canada reflect fear that we are not hearing accurate news about Afghanistan.

This I can understand but it is important to keep an open mind on why that may be happening, not just make assumptions based on our prejudices.

[killjoy]

I don't know what the daily routine of the military is. Some of what they do gets reports, lots doesn't. I try to read or listen to as much as I can from a variety of sources. I don't neccessarily believe the news, politicians, the military or anyone has the full truth about events in Afghanistan.

I know. I believe you. You ask too many questions to not be smart.

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