PQ's Plans to Achieve Sovereignty

[Charles Anthony]

In that, how is Alberta really different than anywhere else?

The ability to pay their own way makes Albertans stand out.

I bet you would still find that every province was more similar to the rest of Canada than anywhere else.

So what? In my view, the differences between ALL people in the world are trivial. Does that mean we should ALL submit ourselves to one great big happy government?

so what is keeping us together?

A sense of co-dependence and parasitizm.

[M.Dancer]

In that, how is Alberta really different than anywhere else?

The ability to pay their own way makes Albertans stand out.

As opposed to Ontario?

[Riverwind]

Does that mean we should ALL submit ourselves to one great big happy government?

No but it means that we should not be talking about creating a pointless economic crisis trying breaking up the existing units that more or less work. People who think that it would be possible to dismantle of federation like Canada without severe economic disruptions are simply delusional.

so what is keeping us together?

A sense of co-dependence and parasitizm.

Welcome to the human race - humans have succeeded as a human species because they collaborate with each other and, in most cases, depend on each other to survive. There is nothing wrong with this.

[Charles Anthony]

No but it means that we should not be talking about creating a pointless economic crisis trying breaking up the existing units that more or less work. People who think that it would be possible to dismantle of federation like Canada without severe economic disruptions are simply delusional.

I believe the long term benefits of small government far outweighs temporary "severe economic disruptions" because Canada, as a whole, is productive and does not mooch off of other countries.

The detriment of big government in Canada (or any country, for that matter) is internal waste and inefficiency.

[Riverwind]

I believe the long term benefits of small government far outweighs temporary "severe economic disruptions" because Canada, as a whole, is productive and does not mooch off of other countries.

The economic disruptions would last at least a decade. It would take at least a generation to get back to where everyone would have been without the crisis. Frankly, it is a big waste of time and energy and is not even worth considering since there are many other options available that could improve the way gov't works in this country without requiring a crisis.

[geoffrey]

I believe the long term benefits of small government far outweighs temporary "severe economic disruptions" because Canada, as a whole, is productive and does not mooch off of other countries.

The economic disruptions would last at least a decade. It would take at least a generation to get back to where everyone would have been without the crisis. Frankly, it is a big waste of time and energy and is not even worth considering since there are many other options available that could improve the way gov't works in this country without requiring a crisis.

Nothing moves in Canada on government reform until someone is about to leave.

[Rue]

Does no one care that in the reasonably near future oil production is going to slide, the Earth is going to go through turbulent climate change, or both? If you want to break up Canada (and I sure as hell don't), why not wait until after the the crisis has passed, or we have a better idea of how things are going down?

Now you went and ruined everything by trying to bring logic and rationality into the debate. Lol.

[Rue]

I believe the long term benefits of small government far outweighs temporary "severe economic disruptions" because Canada, as a whole, is productive and does not mooch off of other countries.

The economic disruptions would last at least a decade. It would take at least a generation to get back to where everyone would have been without the crisis. Frankly, it is a big waste of time and energy and is not even worth considering since there are many other options available that could improve the way gov't works in this country without requiring a crisis.

Nothing moves in Canada on government reform until someone is about to leave.

Now if you had a child who insisted on living at home, eating your food and taking a generous allowance from you but at the same time claiming to be independent and insisting on living their own rules, wouldn't you simply say, take yer friggin butt out and get a job and find yer own home?

Quebec has carried on like the proverbial post puberty child that insists on being treated independently but still being able to suck on mama's tits.

I say someone should tell Quebec it is way to old to breast feed and that if other provinces want to breast feed they should realize Canada's tits have shriveled and its time they concentrate on finding alternative souces of dairy products.

[B. Max]

I pose a question to everyone... We spend so much time talking about what is keeping us apart, so what is keeping us together?

Nothing is keeping us together. It just happens to be the current situation. We are not getting closer or further apart at the moment. The only thing that really matters right now, is what changes are coming that will put the momentum in one direction or the other.

By the way, there is no crisis. Oil production is projected to increase and climate change can only be measured over thousand of years and only after the event.

[Charles Anthony]

The economic disruptions would last at least a decade. It would take at least a generation to get back to where everyone would have been without the crisis.

I will not dispute that in the least.

Frankly, it is a big waste of time and energy and is not even worth considering since there are many other options available that could improve the way gov't works in this country without requiring a crisis.

There again, I agree: there are better ways that can truly make Canada stay intact as a nation but completely revamped as separate republics a la European Union for instance.

Nothing moves in Canada on government reform until someone is about to leave.

I agree. I truly believe that the threat of separation is not even enough. Canadians rally in ridiculous pro-Quebec demonstrations to put out fires and then return to their regularly scheduled hypocricy, bigotry and moochism.

Unfortunately, I believe that decentralization would ONLY start after a province actually separated. I firmly believe that we are hindered by a general sense of mooching and NOT cooperation.

[geoffrey]

Now if you had a child who insisted on living at home, eating your food and taking a generous allowance from you but at the same time claiming to be independent and insisting on living their own rules, wouldn't you simply say, take yer friggin butt out and get a job and find yer own home?

Quebec has carried on like the proverbial post puberty child that insists on being treated independently but still being able to suck on mama's tits.

I say someone should tell Quebec it is way to old to breast feed and that if other provinces want to breast feed they should realize Canada's tits have shriveled and its time they concentrate on finding alternative souces of dairy products.

Bah, bad example. If every province other than Alberta and Ontario weren't sucking the Federal tits then maybe, but picking on Quebec is ridiculous. The Maritimes are a much more massive burden on us, let's kick them out, and Manitoba... and the territories... hmm, ok that's right. Canada doesn't work as is. Don't blame Quebec.

[Riverwind]

The Maritimes are a much more massive burden on us, let's kick them out, and Manitoba... and the territories... hmm, ok that's right. Canada doesn't work as is. Don't blame Quebec.

That is crap. The Alberta economy depends on easily accessible labour from these other provinces. There are thousands of Newfies working in Alberta now and more are arriving every day. Would you be happy if the entire province moved to Alberta? Frankly I find this geographic chauvinism quite disturbing. Why is someone less important because they live on the Saskatchewan side of Lloydminster? I am sure many residents of the Alberta side depend on wealth transfers from the gov't of Alberta.

[geoffrey]

The Maritimes are a much more massive burden on us, let's kick them out, and Manitoba... and the territories... hmm, ok that's right. Canada doesn't work as is. Don't blame Quebec.

That is crap. The Alberta economy depends on easily accessible labour from these other provinces. There are thousands of Newfies working in Alberta now and more are arriving every day. Would you be happy if the entire province moved to Alberta? Frankly I find this geographic chauvinism quite disturbing. Why is someone less important because they live on the Saskatchewan side of Lloydminster? I am sure many residents of the Alberta side depend on wealth transfers from the gov't of Alberta.

Probably, shouldn't be many wealth transfers going on in Alberta right now though. I've got nothing against Saskatchewan, or anywhere else in particular... just some of their governments. People aren't naturally lazy and stubborn, governments encourage and permit them to become that way. Consequence of the welfare state.

I wouldn't mind all the unemployed newfies moving here, in fact, I think it should be required. I'm not saying that people need to give up their jobs in Gander to move to Fort Mac. It's as simple as unemployed people should be required by law (and supported for moving costs) to move to where there is work and get a job. Being unemployed and on some form of social assistance in today's economy should be illegal, if your not handicapped or whatnot.

If Alberta has a duty to pay for the lives of Newfies that don't want to leave, then Newfies have a duty to Albertans to come help out and prevent our prices from skyrocketing because it costs $15 to hire a freaking coffee server at Starbucks. That's how a nation works... why are we pretending Canada is a nation? It's really just a system of Ontario/Quebec and their resource exploitation colonies out west and their own version of dependant-otherwise-would-be-third-world colony in the East.

[Riverwind]

I wouldn't mind all the unemployed newfies moving here, in fact, I think it should be required. I'm not saying that people need to give up their jobs in Gander to move to Fort Mac. It's as simple as unemployed people should be required by law (and supported for moving costs) to move to where there is work and get a job. Being unemployed and on some form of social assistance in today's economy should be illegal, if your not handicapped or whatnot.

I would prefer incentives (like time limits on social assistance) over a heavy handed law but I agree with the principal that social programs must be designed to ensure people help themselves in whatever way is possible. OTW - a massive migration of mobile labour out of region simply ensures that region's economy will never recover.