The Americans were better

[B. Max]

Another myth perpetrated by the American bashers goes up in smoke.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...9/10/wirq10.xml

[Riverwind]

Another myth perpetrated by the American bashers goes up in smoke.

I thought you must be joking but appears you are serious. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with what the Americans did in Abu Ghraib because the current Iraqi gov't is worse? What the Americans did may have been mild by 'internationally accepted standards for torture' but it does not change the fact that the Americans should not have been torturing anyone. Even people who have no philosophical objection to torture should recognize that word of Americans torturing Iraqis would eventually get out and that it would severely undermine the objectives of the mission in Iraq when it did.

[B. Max]

Another myth perpetrated by the American bashers goes up in smoke.

I thought you must be joking but appears you are serious. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with what the Americans did in Abu Ghraib because the current Iraqi gov't is worse? What the Americans did may have been mild by 'internationally accepted standards for torture' but it does not change the fact that the Americans should not have been torturing anyone. Even people who have no philosophical objection to torture should recognize that word of Americans torturing Iraqis would eventually get out and it would severely undermine the objectives of the mission in Iraq.

What nonsense. I don't even accept what the Americans did as torture.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't remember people saying that the Iraqis would treat their prisoners better, or that that question was even discussed. What I do remember are reports of maltreatment, which seems to be continuing under the Iraqis.

Hopefully, the Red Cross will be allowed to resume their visits to the prison.

[Riverwind]

What nonsense. I don't even accept what the Americans did as torture.

It is irrelevant what you think - if Iraqis think that what the Americans did is torture then it is torture. You can wring your hands as much as you want but the PR damage was done. The entire episode illustrates why it is a waste of time to invade countries and hope to keep the moral high ground. No matter what an invader does it will always make mistakes and always turn the people against them.

[B. Max]

What nonsense. I don't even accept what the Americans did as torture.

It is irrelevant what you think - if Iraqis think that what the Americans did is torture then it is torture. You can wring your hands as much as you want but the PR damage was done. The entire episode illustrates why it is a waste of time to invade countries and hope to keep the moral high ground. No matter what an invader does it will always make mistakes and always turn the people against them.

I have my doubts if the Iraqi's ever thought that was torture, and in fact it wasn't even an issue until our resident treasonites made an issue out of nothing. From what I gather from this article the Iraqi's think the Americans were to soft on the murdering butchers. Something the seem to have corrected in short order.

[Riverwind]

I have my doubts if the Iraqi's ever thought that was torture, and in fact it wasn't even an issue until our resident treasonites made an issue out of nothing. From what I gather from this article the Iraqi's think the Americans were to soft on the murdering butchers. Something the seem to have corrected in short order.

It is clear that you do not understand the tribal nature of Iraqi society. People belonging to the tribe doing the torturing likely have no problem with it. People belonging to the tribe being tortured likely have a big problem with it. All tribes would have a problem with 'foreigners' torturing anybody. In other words, the fact that Iraqis torture each other does not mean they accept the idea that Americans should be torturing them.

BTW - War supporters duped the public into believing that it was possible to conduct a 'civilized' war that did not victimize innocents or require human rights violations. War supporters would have never got permission to start the war if they had not created the deception. For that reason, war supporters have no business arguing that 'war is a dirty business' after the fact when these abuses are exposed. The only traitors are war supporters who duped the American public into supporting a war based on a pack of lies.

[B. Max]

[quote

BTW - War supporters duped the public into believing that it was possible to conduct a 'civilized' war that did not victimize innocents or require human rights violations. War supporters would have never got permission to start the war if they had not created the deception. For that reason, war supporters have no business arguing that 'war is a dirty business' after the fact when these abuses are exposed. The only traitors are war supporters who duped the American public into supporting a war based on a pack of lies.

That is ridiculous. No body duped anyone. The hoist the white flag crowd appeasers got us into the war in the first place by appeasing the terrorists for years while they became more organized and bold in their attacks. The line was drawn in after 911 when the bastards ran into Bush. They've been getting their ass kicked ever since in spite of the treasonous appeasers.

[Riverwind]

The hoist the white flag crowd appeasers got us into the war in the first place by appeasing the terrorists for years while they became more organized and bold in their attacks.

Rubbish. Bin Laden attacked the US because US troops were in Saudi Arabia. If there were no troops there would have been no attack.

The line was drawn in after 911 when the bastards ran into Bush.

Bush and Bin Laden are soul mates - they both seek to create conflict in order to advance their poiltical objectives. You can bet that Al'Queda cheered the day that Bush decided to invade Iraq.

[B. Max]

The hoist the white flag crowd appeasers got us into the war in the first place by appeasing the terrorists for years while they became more organized and bold in their attacks.

Rubbish. Bin Laden attacked the US because US troops were in Saudi Arabia. If there were no troops there would have been no attack.

The line was drawn in after 911 when the bastards ran into Bush.

Bush and Bin Laden are soul mates - they both seek to create conflict in order to advance their poiltical objectives. You can bet that Al'Queda cheered the day that Bush decided to invade Iraq.

The nonsense from the cut and run gang gets more ridiculous every day.

[Figleaf]

Another myth perpetrated by the American bashers goes up in smoke.

I thought you must be joking but appears you are serious. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with what the Americans did in Abu Ghraib because the current Iraqi gov't is worse? What the Americans did may have been mild by 'internationally accepted standards for torture' but it does not change the fact that the Americans should not have been torturing anyone. Even people who have no philosophical objection to torture should recognize that word of Americans torturing Iraqis would eventually get out and it would severely undermine the objectives of the mission in Iraq.

What nonsense. I don't even accept what the Americans did as torture.

And your flexible, self-defined concept of torture is revelent how, exactly?

[Black Dog]

Another myth perpetrated by the American bashers goes up in smoke.

So the Americans were less prone to torture than the American supporrted Iraqi government?

That is ridiculous. No body duped anyone. The hoist the white flag crowd appeasers got us into the war in the first place by appeasing the terrorists for years while they became more organized and bold in their attacks. The line was drawn in after 911 when the bastards ran into Bush. They've been getting their ass kicked ever since in spite of the treasonous appeasers

Why do you use this word "appeasement"? I do not think it means what you think it means.