Healthcare in Canada

[Charles Anthony]

If forced to choose, I prefer the canadian system of waiting lists for surgery, especially elective surgery.

You are not forced to choose only between the Canadiian system and the American system. There are many other choices starting with more privatization.

[margrace]

I think if they want my money now, I should get my health care now. If they want deny me the care I need for a year, I should be able to deny them any money for a year.

I have been waiting for a simple sleep-study for 6 months now with no end in sight. I am sick of it.

No government has been able to solve this problem. In the last 15 years all three parties of note have held office in this province(ON) and the problem has only gotten worse despite all the extra tax dollars they dump on it. It will take a class action lawsuit to make them take note of how badly they neglect us.

Is this wait the result of a lack of specialists? I've heard there are smiliar waits for sleep studies in the States just because there are so many people suffering from a sleep disorder and not so many specialists in the field.

I could be in at Belleview in Detroit, MI in a week if I was willing to pay. If I could I would.

I don't understand, our neighbour wanted an MRI. There was nothing wrong with him, he just wanted one, so he hopped across to Detroit and had one which he paid for.

[margrace]

If I or my husband had to use the US system we would have no health care. We never made enough money to pay for it. We worked hard all our lives but we never made over $14 an hour. Can you save money on that wage. There are a lot of Canadians like us.

In many places in Europe, Health Care is free (no prohibitive costs), costs less to taxpayers and has no waiting lists. France and Norway are great examples of how health care should be done.

Canadians need to grow up and lose their stigma against reform. Until then, we'll all suffer. Two tier is already here, those that can afford to fly south for fast treatment, and those that can't and suffer in our system.

There are no long waiting times in our area. I haven't heard of a lot on here either. I think its all propaganda by the people who want to make money out of our system and can't do it right now.

[margrace]

Tons of charity and teaching hospitals that provide care free or dirt cheap as well in the States.

The Health Care horrors of the US are limited, it's a populatio of 300mil, of course they'll have some trouble. The ratio in Canada I'm sure is much higher. In the States at least you have a choice if you want to live or die, in Canada, you just die waiting because the government tells you to.

That's why the Supreme Court ruled against the current system, saying it violates your rights. You should not be forced to die due to the government's incompetance at running the system.

There is little wrong with our system. Where are the long waiting lines, none in our area.

[margrace]

If forced to choose, I prefer the canadian system of waiting lists for surgery, especially elective surgery.

You are not forced to choose only between the Canadiian system and the American system. There are many other choices starting with more privatization.

Well then we certainly would be forced to die.

[scribblet]

My niece is on a 6 month wait list for an MRI, but cannot afford to go to the U.S. for one. If this were cancer we would all chip in and send her south. As it is we had to chip in to send her to the U.S. for treatment that is not available in Canada. She is on a wait list for a doctor ( I waited two years)

I see nothing wrong with being proactive and paying for an MRI if I wished to; objections to paying for procedures is simply sour grapes and jealousy. "you can't have anything I don't have" Heck I can pay for dog anytime to have an MRI, but not my family.

Mobile MRI and catscan machines should be allowed, I couldn't care less if my neighbour can afford one and I can't.

No one would die any more than they dying now in wait lists if we offered patiens the opportunity to purchase services, its no skin of my nose or anyone else's.

[Renegade]

There is little wrong with our system. Where are the long waiting lines, none in our area.

margrace, it is easy to not find any fault in the system when you personally pay little or none of the costs. In effect other taxpayers are paying for a medical system which you benefit from. It's a great benefit for you, but is it a benefit from their perspective?

One of the people who are net losers in the system are those who fund it, but yet are given the same level (or worse) than those who provide no funding. Many of those would find the service better in a "pay for use" type of system, because they have the ability to pay.

Maybe you can answer two questions for me. Do you think the healthcare system should be a forced wealth transfer system where the affluent pay for the healthcare of the less affulent? If so why? And also, should there be any limit on the amount of healthcare provided to an individual?

[margrace]

My niece is on a 6 month wait list for an MRI, but cannot afford to go to the U.S. for one. If this were cancer we would all chip in and send her south. As it is we had to chip in to send her to the U.S. for treatment that is not available in Canada. She is on a wait list for a doctor ( I waited two years)

I see nothing wrong with being proactive and paying for an MRI if I wished to; objections to paying for procedures is simply sour grapes and jealousy. "you can't have anything I don't have" Heck I can pay for dog anytime to have an MRI, but not my family.

Mobile MRI and catscan machines should be allowed, I couldn't care less if my neighbour can afford one and I can't.

No one would die any more than they dying now in wait lists if we offered patiens the opportunity to purchase services, its no skin of my nose or anyone else's.

First I would like to know how, if we are short of staff and MRI's, we will be able to get private use. There is a real dichotomy here that only proves to me that big business, insurance companies, and people wishing to cash in on people's problems are behind a lot of this.

[geoffrey]

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/175/5/464

"The reports, collectively entitled The Future of Emergency Care, are the first extensive studies of US emergency care in the past 40 years. They present a bleak picture: a half million times a year — about once a minute — ambulances carrying critically ill patients are diverted from full EDs to more distant sites. Once stabilized, patients can wait several hours, even days, on gurneys in ED hallways for inpatient beds. On-call specialists are in short supply because of the cost of malpractice insurance and the difficulty of collecting payment from uninsured patients."

Apparently there are waiting lists for emergency services in the USA system. If forced to choose, I prefer the canadian system of waiting lists for surgery, especially elective surgery.

Where in Canada do you live? 4 times this year Calgary has had no ambulances for hours at a time. The wait in an ER in Calgary before getting admitted for emergency surgery can be a week. There has been more than a handful of cases of death in waiting for services in my city alone.

There is little wrong with our system. Where are the long waiting lines, none in our area.

I'd be very interested in reading any stats on that... maybe you live in a nice porkbarrel district of one MP, but the reality in Canada is that you wait months for cancer treatment, years for hip replacements that without you are completely disabled, and you wait hours for ambulances to become available. That is the Canada that you live in, despite whatever you think about your local area.

I'd be willing to bet a large sum that 95% of the users on this forum agree that there are waiting lists in Canada. I can't believe you'd suggest that no one waits at all for treatment. Your either delusional or live in the most special of special case scenarios. The average ER wait alone where I live is 5+ hours.

[Charles Anthony]

objections to paying for procedures is simply sour grapes and jealousy. "you can't have anything I don't have" Heck I can pay for dog anytime to have an MRI, but not my family.

I agree. I think that explains the non-sensical naturally-reflexive doom-and-gloom fear-mongering objections to privatization.

First I would like to know how, if we are short of staff and MRI's, we will be able to get private use.

That is a valid question. There is more than one way to overcome the shortfalls.

The private services can be added by paying private staff more for the same service. The extra pay will come from the patients who pay the extra fees -- not from the rest of the public. Staff that moved to the U.S.A. might move back if they were paid more in Canada.

Other illustrations can be found currently within the healthcare system today. Think of pharmaceutical coverage -- a privatized health care. If your doctor gives you a prescription, you go and pay for it yourself. Some people get hand-outs for pharmacauticals paid by their provincial governments while some do not. Some people get re-imbursements from drug insurance benefits through their employers or through private plans while some do not. Think of chiropractic care. Some provinces cover the treatment and some do not. Some provinces only cover a certain number of visits and the patient pays for the extra vists. That is privatization.

[margrace]

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/175/5/464

"The reports, collectively entitled The Future of Emergency Care, are the first extensive studies of US emergency care in the past 40 years. They present a bleak picture: a half million times a year — about once a minute — ambulances carrying critically ill patients are diverted from full EDs to more distant sites. Once stabilized, patients can wait several hours, even days, on gurneys in ED hallways for inpatient beds. On-call specialists are in short supply because of the cost of malpractice insurance and the difficulty of collecting payment from uninsured patients."

Apparently there are waiting lists for emergency services in the USA system. If forced to choose, I prefer the canadian system of waiting lists for surgery, especially elective surgery.

Where in Canada do you live? 4 times this year Calgary has had no ambulances for hours at a time. The wait in an ER in Calgary before getting admitted for emergency surgery can be a week. There has been more than a handful of cases of death in waiting for services in my city alone.

There is little wrong with our system. Where are the long waiting lines, none in our area.

I'd be very interested in reading any stats on that... maybe you live in a nice porkbarrel district of one MP, but the reality in Canada is that you wait months for cancer treatment, years for hip replacements that without you are completely disabled, and you wait hours for ambulances to become available. That is the Canada that you live in, despite whatever you think about your local area.

I'd be willing to bet a large sum that 95% of the users on this forum agree that there are waiting lists in Canada. I can't believe you'd suggest that no one waits at all for treatment. Your either delusional or live in the most special of special case scenarios. The average ER wait alone where I live is 5+ hours.

[Hydraboss]

Margrace,

Why go to Detroit for an MRI? My wife has been waiting for one on her back for 2 1/2 months and hasn't even received confirmation of when it will be booked. I got tired of that crap and called an imaging clinic in Edmonton. Amazingly enough, call today and you have your choice of this Friday morning or Tuesday afternoon (long weekend, you know!). $495 out of my pocket, and someone in the private que moves up a notch.

"Here, have my place in line. Your welcome, Mr. Stranger."

[geoffrey]

Margrace,

Why go to Detroit for an MRI? My wife has been waiting for one on her back for 2 1/2 months and hasn't even received confirmation of when it will be booked. I got tired of that crap and called an imaging clinic in Edmonton. Amazingly enough, call today and you have your choice of this Friday morning or Tuesday afternoon (long weekend, you know!). $495 out of my pocket, and someone in the private que moves up a notch.

"Here, have my place in line. Your welcome, Mr. Stranger."

Should have just moved to where Margrace lives. There public health care is all roses and no one waits, doctors wait on you!