Who is Hezbollah?

[cybercoma]

Here's an excellent article on what Hezbollah is, how they are structured and who funds them, etc...

http://www.freelebanon.org/articles/a226.htm

[mcqueen625]

Here's an excellent article on what Hezbollah is, how they are structured and who funds them, etc...

http://www.freelebanon.org/articles/a226.htm

Hezbollah as well as Hamas are recognized around the world as terrorist organizations, and they should be treated as such. Any government who either harbours them or supports them should also be treate as terrorist organizations themselves. That would include Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Syria. I include in that collection France, Germany, Russia, North Korea and China since they blatently supply arms and technology to these extremist states.

[Argus]

Here's an excellent article on what Hezbollah is, how they are structured and who funds them, etc...

http://www.freelebanon.org/articles/a226.htm

Hezbollah as well as Hamas are recognized around the world as terrorist organizations,

I don't think either is considered a terrorist organization in the Muslim world (where only Jews are terrorists). Hezbollah isn't even considered a terrorist organization by the Europe Union. Not sure about Hamas.

This will change, of course, if Saudi Arabia ever runs out of money and oil.

[geoffrey]

Here's an excellent article on what Hezbollah is, how they are structured and who funds them, etc...

http://www.freelebanon.org/articles/a226.htm

Hezbollah as well as Hamas are recognized around the world as terrorist organizations, and they should be treated as such. Any government who either harbours them or supports them should also be treate as terrorist organizations themselves. That would include Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Syria. I include in that collection France, Germany, Russia, North Korea and China since they blatently supply arms and technology to these extremist states.

How do you propose Lebanon remove Hezbollah... Hezbollah is bigger, and better equipped than Lebanon's Army?

How do you propose Lebanon remove Hezbollah when they no longer have roads, bridges or airports and have a blockade around their nation?

[Argus]

Here's an excellent article on what Hezbollah is, how they are structured and who funds them, etc...

http://www.freelebanon.org/articles/a226.htm

Hezbollah as well as Hamas are recognized around the world as terrorist organizations, and they should be treated as such. Any government who either harbours them or supports them should also be treate as terrorist organizations themselves. That would include Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Syria. I include in that collection France, Germany, Russia, North Korea and China since they blatently supply arms and technology to these extremist states.

How do you propose Lebanon remove Hezbollah... Hezbollah is bigger, and better equipped than Lebanon's Army?

That's not actually true, you know.

How do you propose Lebanon remove Hezbollah when they no longer have roads, bridges or airports and have a blockade around their nation?

And yet, civilians seem to be streaming back to the southern villages regardless.

You should try for a little less credulity when it comes to Hezbollah press releases.

[Rue]

So you want to know about Hezbollah... well here is a direct quote from its founding statement:

"We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. ... Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated. We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine."

Hezbollah began around 1982 when cells of anti-Israel terrorists formed together to fight Israel which was in South Lebanon trying to maintain a buffer through the South Lebanese (Christian) Army to keep terrorists from coming across into Northern Israel and to stop these terrorists from launching missles.

It declared its official manifesto on Feb. 16, 1985. Its philosophy is clear. It follows the teachings of the late Ayatollah Ruholah Khomaeni and wants Lebanon to be a fundamentalist Shiite nation.

For the record at this time, only the US, Canada, the UK, Holland and Israel have declared it a terrorist nation and for the record it receives its arms not just from Russia, China and North Korea its principal suppliers, but Germany, France, and Belgium.

In the past Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia have all made statements criticizing it.

Its political wing has 23 members sitting in the Lebanese Parliament.

And just so you know in addition to Al Nour Radio Station and Al Manar t,.v. which regularily broadcast its philosophy calling on the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews worldwide until this object is achieved it also is a lot of fun for boys and girls because it even distributes a video game called Special Force which teaches its kiddies about killing Israelis and civilians in war. It also funds the Martyrs Institute providing living and education expenses to families of those who blow themselves up.

Its religious philosophy Willayat Al Faqih extolls the virtues of a one religion Shiite Islamic state with no freedom of speech or expression and the country run by a few clerics sitting on a council.

Its current leader Sheikh Sayyed Nasrallah was never elected and came to power in 1992 after basically other leaders were assassinated. Yes he is a religious cleric.

Now the interesting thing about the Reverend Nasrallah is that yesterday he declared victory and told all Lebanese he would rebuild Lebanon and that they won their war.

Well that's nice. Here's the rub. Now that Israel is no longer bombing but has entrenched in the South and is g oing nowhere, in fact most Lebanese returning to their bombed homes realize Hezbollah was pushed out of the South and at what expense?

Just what did Hezbollah achieve in its victory? Yes it managed in destroying the entire country but what about its claim to victory? Israel is not only still standing but it is right back in Lebanon instead of remaining outside it. So this man has succeeded in destroying his country and giving Israel pretense to remain in Lebanon at the moment.

More importantly as the months grow to years, most Lebanese will ask themselves what did hezbollah achieve other then a demonstration of hatred and ego...yes in the heat of the moment everyone hates Israel but after Israel no longer shoots at them in because no missiles are going Israel's way....then what...well as the months turn into years, the Lebanese will turn on Hezbollah as they did in the past-they will begin to resent their presence and resent the fact that there latest conflict achieved nothing other then to incite Israel into killing civilians and destroying their buildings.

So let's not kid ourselves. The current supporters of Hezbollah who are not Shiite will soon be back to questioning why it is so powerful in Lebanon.

Now then who is kidding who. The UN will allegedly put a different kind of UNIFIL force in South Lebanon. Yah right. Who? The French? The French still have their reputation in the Arab world based on their behaviour in Algeria. They are destested by all Arabs except the Lebanese Christians. Rumour has it they will try have the Turks join them. Yah sure. The Ottoman Empire's boys, another popular army Arabs love. I mean Arabs love their memories of how Turks treated them in the Ottoman Empire. How about the Germans. Some idiots including the current PM of Israel actually think Germany should be in this peace force. Yep I can see that. Imagine what happens if a German soldier shoots an Israeli soldier.

So who is left? True neutral countries that are trusted by Israel such as Canada, Norway and Spain or Holland may not be in the position to provide troops. Holland is already in Afghanistan with Canada. Spain and Norway are extremely reluctant to provide ground forces. So who is left? Uh yah, lets bring in the Chinese and North Koreans or Russians? Don't think so. So who is left?

You ask me, the only armed force capable of keeping Hezbollah in check are the Ghurkas and they are not going anywhere near the Middle East. They had their escapade in Afghanistan for the British.

So I think you will see a major problem assembling a UNIFIL force with clout. What will eventually happen is Hezbollah will try repopulate the South yet again with arms.

The UN claims this time it will enforce Resolution 1559 and disarm Hezbollah...how? You really think Hezbollah will as the UN claims, disarm and stay in the North? Fat chance.

The UN claims this time UNIFIL will have a military mandate and the UN will enforce a weapons embargo. Yah right. This coming from the French, the biggest weapons whores in the Middle East.

The bottom line is to disarm Hezbollah one has to go to its source Iran and I say Iran not Syria. Syria is a bit player with no say in what is going on. It is a bankrupt country on the verge of a civil war. Iran is the power and no one has any influence over it. The Chinese, Russians, French, Germans and Belgians and European Union suck up to it for oil. Only the British, US and Australia have criticized it openly.

So sorry but I think Hezbollah is going nowhere. It will continue to promulgate anti-semitism and instability as long as Iran continues as is with its mad-man leader.

As long as Hezbollah retains its weapons and military presence, Lebanon has no chance of being an independent nation.

Please let me leave with you with another love quote from "Happy" Hassan Nasrallah;

"Anyone who reads the Koran and the holy writings of the monotheistic religions sees what they did to the prophets, and what acts of madness and slaughter the Jews carried out throughout history ... Anyone who reads these texts cannot think of co-existence with them, of peace with them, or about accepting their presence, not only in Palestine of 1948 but even in a small village in Palestine, because they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment."

Yes indeedy. I am a large tumour. Isn't that special.

[Black Dog]

That's not actually true, you know.

No, but Hizbullah is clearly a capable fighting force. The Lebanese Army: well, no one's to sure about their quality, let alone if they will be too excited about fighting their countrymen and coreligionists.

Rue:

Just what did Hezbollah achieve in its victory? Yes it managed in destroying the entire country but what about its claim to victory? Israel is not only still standing but it is right back in Lebanon instead of remaining outside it. So this man has succeeded in destroying his country and giving Israel pretense to remain in Lebanon at the moment.

Hizbullah has acheive dthe avbility to claim something no other Arab force ever has: they went toe to toe with the mighty IDF and are still standing. Whether Hizbullah's forces continue to fight a gueriila war against israel or UNFIL, or if they will just melt back into the local populace remains to be seen.

More importantly as the months grow to years, most Lebanese will ask themselves what did hezbollah achieve other then a demonstration of hatred and ego...yes in the heat of the moment everyone hates Israel but after Israel no longer shoots at them in because no missiles are going Israel's way....then what...well as the months turn into years, the Lebanese will turn on Hezbollah as they did in the past-they will begin to resent their presence and resent the fact that there latest conflict achieved nothing other then to incite Israel into killing civilians and destroying their buildings.

I agree that i'm not sure how long Hizbullah can count on staying in the rest of Lebanon's good graces. But they will undoubtebly see a recuritment boost and I don't know if the rest of lebanon will be able to challenge them in the near future.

So let's not kid ourselves. The current supporters of Hezbollah who are not Shiite will soon be back to questioning why it is so powerful in Lebanon.

Agreed. The question is whether they'll be able to do anything about it.

So sorry but I think Hezbollah is going nowhere. It will continue to promulgate anti-semitism and instability as long as Iran continues as is with its mad-man leader.

You're probably right. However, I hope nobody gets the idea that war on Iran would improve the situation.

As long as Hezbollah retains its weapons and military presence, Lebanon has no chance of being an independent nation.

Again, you're probably right.

[Rue]

Hezbollah unlike Arab armies is highly trained. Its fighters suprisingly are quite old. Their average age is mid 30's to early 40's. Many of these Hezbollah are engineers. They have built elaborate trenches that neutralized the Israeli air force making it difficult to find missile sites as they have been able to blend into the trenches and get to under-ground tunnels. As well, Hezbollah has learned by using hand carried anti-tank launched missiles it can neutralize Israeli tanks and shoot down Cobra helicopters.

The fact is, the only way a conventional army like IDF can fight it is to suffer major casualties as it tries to chase after them.

Israel's other option is to use elite, commando forces of 10 to 20 men, operating by suprise and usually in the dark. Israel's conventional military operations like any conventional army fighting guerillas does not work. Its commando units however have had great success.

That said, Hezbollah are fueled by religious belief and not finances and drug profits like the PLO. In that sense they are deadly. They are fueled by their hatred for Jews and religious beliefs. That is a poweful and combustable mix.

As for this notion the IDF is invincible, this is a Western myth created by the Western Press. If you travel to Israel, Israelis don't believe in such stupid things. They know Hezbollah and Hamas are deadly and that is precisely why they take them so seriously and some posters do not understand why Israel is so worried and feeling like it is being threatened. Hezbollah are not boy scouts. They are professionally trained killers.

[geoffrey]

Correct Rue, and that's how the IDF should be taking out the terrorists, commando strikes, using intelligence. Their current (or pre-ceasefire) M.O. simply was completely ineffective at doing anything but stirring up more shit.

[Rue]

Correct Rue, and that's how the IDF should be taking out the terrorists, commando strikes, using intelligence. Their current (or pre-ceasefire) M.O. simply was completely ineffective at doing anything but stirring up more shit.

Now on this last point, I will never debate you or Black Dog or anyone else if you argue the IDF should have used commando strike forces not a prolonged air war. Now I can understand. See now you are not attacking Israel's right to defend itself, simply how it chose to do so. So on that, I can concede and from a strictly military point have to come back to your position and say yes there was an alternative. The problem with the commando strike approach is that you also need conventional armed forces on the ground creating a 30 mile buffer zone to neutralize missile attacks from getting into Israel. The options are limited. If you don't want to use your air for attacking, you have to do it on the ground,

The problem right now was that Israel's commando elite strike attacks would have had limited success as long as the logistic supply lines from Iran and Syria remained as they were.

All that aside, I think it is important we all realize this latest conflict was a costly show. It was posturing between Iran and Israel. Its part of an on-going deadly display of poker between two foes.

The wide spread destruction in Lebanon as disgusting as it is, was part of a show put on to tell Iran, Israel means business. The wide spread destruction is meant as a message for Iranian clerics now leading their country.

In terms of a long term war against terrorism, its a mere blip in history.

[geoffrey]

Correct Rue, and that's how the IDF should be taking out the terrorists, commando strikes, using intelligence. Their current (or pre-ceasefire) M.O. simply was completely ineffective at doing anything but stirring up more shit.

Now on this last point, I will never debate you or Black Dog or anyone else if you argue the IDF should have used commando strike forces not a prolonged air war. Now I can understand. See now you are not attacking Israel's right to defend itself, simply how it chose to do so. So on that, I can concede and from a strictly military point have to come back to your position and say yes there was an alternative. The problem with the commando strike approach is that you also need conventional armed forces on the ground creating a 30 mile buffer zone to neutralize missile attacks from getting into Israel. The options are limited. If you don't want to use your air for attacking, you have to do it on the ground,

The problem right now was that Israel's commando elite strike attacks would have had limited success as long as the logistic supply lines from Iran and Syria remained as they were.

All that aside, I think it is important we all realize this latest conflict was a costly show. It was posturing between Iran and Israel. Its part of an on-going deadly display of poker between two foes.

The wide spread destruction in Lebanon as disgusting as it is, was part of a show put on to tell Iran, Israel means business. The wide spread destruction is meant as a message for Iranian clerics now leading their country.

In terms of a long term war against terrorism, its a mere blip in history.

That's always been my position, Israel has a right to defense but no right to the strategy it was using. I am not willing to give any country moralistic carte blanche like some on this forum are.

There were ways to minimize civilian casualties (the first priority of a moralistic defender) and do way more damage to Hezbollah then what they chose to do. They didn't attack Hezbollah most of the time, it was attacks on infrastructure that hurt everyday people.

The more everyday people hurt in Lebanon, the more power Hezbollah gains as they offer them promises, deals with the devil.

So yes, of course Israel has a right to kill every last person in Hezbollah, but their strategy was both flawed and immoral, and didn't accomplish anything but hurt innocent civilians and make Hezbollah stronger.

[August1991]

Hizbullah has acheive dthe avbility to claim something no other Arab force ever has: they went toe to toe with the mighty IDF and are still standing.

Uh, I'm not certain that Hizballah achieved that. The Egyptian army in 1973 certainly did and captured several hundred Israeli soldiers in the process.

[You'll note that six years later, Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty that still stands today. The Middle East is noisy and fluid.]

Hizballah is a State within a State and it represents the poorest of the poor in Lebanon and also the fastest growing community demographically - the Lebanese Shia. If I had to pick a Canadian equivalent, I'd pick the Mohawk warriors on certain reserves.

[yam]

[

How do you propose Lebanon remove Hezbollah... Hezbollah is bigger, and better equipped than Lebanon's Army?

That's not actually true, you know.

How do you propose Lebanon remove Hezbollah when they no longer have roads, bridges or airports and have a blockade around their nation?

And yet, civilians seem to be streaming back to the southern villages regardless.

You should try for a little less credulity when it comes to Hezbollah press releases.

You should try for a little less 'faith' in Foxx.

Should he NOT tell the truth?

Every news item (from left to right) reported that the Lebanese bridges etc have been blown to smitherines. In fact it was worse during the 'promised' ceasefire by Israel.

Hezbollah had much support in lebanon (40 something% of those that dare admit it) it also had two other nations contributing to its weapons `supply --Iran and Syria. The lebanese government is poor and could not afford anything near a match.