We'll follow the leaders

[Biblio Bibuli]

Seeing how Stephen Harper is enjoying just as much popularity with his pro-Bush stances as Chretien and Martin did with their anti-Bush ones, I must say I'm a tad worried.

How can Canadians turn on a dime like that? Don't they have minds of their own? What if some Hitler or Jim Jones type comes along? Will we follow them too?

Oh Canada ... tsk tsk tsk!

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

Canadians wake up once and a while often just before an election to ask " who's running" then they go back to sleep for another year. When they do wake up and don't see their shadow then like Punxsutawney Phil or Wairton Willie they think there will be six more years of liberal rule.

O:nen

[jbg]

She:kon!

Canadians wake up once and a while often just before an election to ask " who's running" then they go back to sleep for another year. When they do wake up and don't see their shadow then like Punxsutawney Phil or Wairton Willie they think there will be six more years of liberal rule.

O:nen

Not htis past one.

[andib]

The ironic part of Canada when it comes to voting, is that the people who get most angry with the results, are the ones who cannot vote. This may be because they are a year underage, or a few, but nonetheless, their votes could make a difference. So that by the time they can vote, they don't even want to because they are so used to not being able to make a difference.

I think Canada is starting to shift in it's Liberal position, not because they have changed their views or are less open-minded, but because we want results. Though, if we really wanted change more people would be trying to run for office, then just sitting back and complaining about who's running the country, and how bad of a job they are doing. We are not united, we are divided, even if we are still one country. It's because of this that we have a lack of a strong and respectable government that we can trust not to be seduced by power.

Sadly we don't, and for people who do not have much power or say in political affairs, we just keep whinning, and nothing will ever be done.

[betsy]

I never did like Chretien or Martin.

And I happen to like Harper....AND BUSH. And I'm not apologizing for it.

But then, I'm a Conservative...and I do share the same views and values that they represent. So of course I'm a "follower".

I'm too glad with Harper's response to the pressure by some groups to call an immediate cease-fire. It only strengthen my impression of him: that he is a principled man. With a backbone.

[jbg]

I'm too glad with Harper's response to the pressure by some groups to call an immediate cease-fire. It only strengthen my impression of him: that he is a principled man. With a backbone.

Plain spoken and straightforward as well.

[scribblet]

I never did like Chretien or Martin.

And I happen to like Harper....AND BUSH. And I'm not apologizing for it.

But then, I'm a Conservative...and I do share the same views and values that they represent. So of course I'm a "follower".

I too am pleased with Harper's response to the pressure by some groups to call an immediate cease-fire. It only strengthen my impression of him: that he is a principled man. With a backbone.

Agreed, although Harper is not in absolute lockstep with Bush as the press and leftwing would have us believe. That is mostly left wing propaganda, and the liberals playing on the hatred for Bush as leverage.

The Conservative government is now well into its term and is benefitting as much from the ineffectiveness of the Liberal opposition as from its own merits. It is also refreshing to have a leader and a (deputy leader) with some honesty and a firm stance. In fact, until the Liberals were elected in 1993, Canada usually took "a moderately pro-Israel stance," according to David Bercuson, a military historian at the University of Calgary. It is basically the last Liberal gov't which shifted Canada's position to a 'sitting on the fence' lets wait and see what the polls say. "

[jdobbin]

Agreed, although Harper is not in absolute lockstep with Bush as the press and leftwing would have us believe. That is mostly left wing propaganda, and the liberals playing on the hatred for Bush as leverage.

The Conservative government is now well into its term and is benefitting as much from the ineffectiveness of the Liberal opposition as from its own merits. It is also refreshing to have a leader and a (deputy leader) with some honesty and a firm stance. In fact, until the Liberals were elected in 1993, Canada usually took "a moderately pro-Israel stance," according to David Bercuson, a military historian at the University of Calgary. It is basically the last Liberal gov't which shifted Canada's position to a 'sitting on the fence' lets wait and see what the polls say. "

Canada was one of the countries working on full embargo on the front lines in Iraq. Canada was one of the first countries to condemn the attacks on the United States on September 11 and the first country to take in Americans from that attack. Canada was one of the first countries to support the resolution to remove al Qaeda in Afghainstan. Canada was one of the first countries to committ troops to Afghanistan.

Canada didn't send troops to Iraq.

That's one decision we made on our own. The Conservatives would have had Canada in Iraq. Think that would have been a good decision?

[margrace]

Well if you believe everything that is pushed at you by the Conservatives then you will get the government you deserve. If your son was coming home in a body bag I wonder how you would feel.

To say that Harper and his deputy are honest men certainly makes a mockery of the truth. Harper has fought against our health care all his career and McKay is an out and out liar, he proved that to get the party leadership. I wonder what the incentives were.

No I did not particularly like Martin, rich and hypicritical, Chretien, also a hypocrite in cutting health funding to the provinces, Mulroney, a smiling hypocrite who loves anything American and is a traitor to his country.

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

It is sad to see people whose only claim to fame is that they can find someone to look down on. We could be a great country but greed and power are all we get.

[scribblet]

I never did like Chretien or Martin.

And I happen to like Harper....AND BUSH. And I'm not apologizing for it.

But then, I'm a Conservative...and I do share the same views and values that they represent. So of course I'm a "follower".

I too am pleased with Harper's response to the pressure by some groups to call an immediate cease-fire. It only strengthen my impression of him: that he is a principled man. With a backbone.

Agreed, although Harper is not in absolute lockstep with Bush as the press and leftwing would have us believe. That is mostly left wing propaganda, and the liberals playing on the hatred for Bush as leverage.

The Conservative government is now well into its term and is benefitting as much from the ineffectiveness of the Liberal opposition as from its own merits. It is also refreshing to have a leader and a (deputy leader) with some honesty and a firm stance. In fact, until the Liberals were elected in 1993, Canada usually took "a moderately pro-Israel stance," according to David Bercuson, a military historian at the University of Calgary. It is basically the last Liberal gov't which shifted Canada's position to a 'sitting on the fence' lets wait and see what the polls say. "

[scribblet]

Well if you believe everything that is pushed at you by the Conservatives then you will get the government you deserve. If your son was coming home in a body bag I wonder how you would feel.

To say that Harper and his deputy are honest men certainly makes a mockery of the truth. Harper has fought against our health care all his career and McKay is an out and out liar, he proved that to get the party leadership. I wonder what the incentives were.

No I did not particularly like Martin, rich and hypicritical, Chretien, also a hypocrite in cutting health funding to the provinces, Mulroney, a smiling hypocrite who loves anything American and is a traitor to his country.

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

It is sad to see people whose only claim to fame is that they can find someone to look down on. We could be a great country but greed and power are all we get.

Just curious but who did you have in mind exactly, could you be more specific and maybe cite some sources?

As far as I'm concerned the current conservative gov't is far more honest and ethicsl then anything we've seen in the last 13 years. It was the liberal gov't who wanted to dominate and IMO actually thought they had the 'divine right of kings' to rule. Harper has not 'fought against health care' all his career, what he has wanted is some change and accountability within the act. Continuing to whine and bleat about not getting enough in handouts is typical of socialist gimme more, mentality, let others pay the piper.

[betsy]

Well if you believe everything that is pushed at you by the Conservatives then you will get the government you deserve. If your son was coming home in a body bag I wonder how you would feel.

But when you're at war, you expect to see body bags! Get used to it.

Some of the parents of dead soldiers voiced out their sons' belief in the mission. Let us not cheapen their memory by using them to politicize and to further an anti-war agenda. They've died a noble death.

I'd rather see my sons coming home in body bags than living under tyranny and in fear.

See what media coverage and body counts does? It not only demoralizes our troops and people...it also work well serving the terrorists in striking fear into your heart...right there in your own living room!

[betsy]

No I did not particularly like Martin, rich and hypicritical, Chretien, also a hypocrite in cutting health funding to the provinces, Mulroney, a smiling hypocrite who loves anything American and is a traitor to his country.

And Trudeau was a nazi-sympathiser!

Whle my father in-law was fighting it out in Germany (and other Canadian sons and fathers were dying)...Trudeau was busy playing Mr Dress-Up in nazi costumes!

[betsy]

Mulroney, a smiling hypocrite who loves anything American and is a traitor to his country.

You got me lost there. Please explain how Mulroney was a traitor to this country.

[betsy]

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

What about going under RELIGIOUS rule? The Taliban perhaps?

[dances with fishes]

No I did not particularly like Martin, rich and hypicritical, Chretien, also a hypocrite in cutting health funding to the provinces, Mulroney, a smiling hypocrite who loves anything American and is a traitor to his country.

And Trudeau was a nazi-sympathiser!

Whle my father in-law was fighting it out in Germany (and other Canadian sons and fathers were dying)...Trudeau was busy playing Mr Dress-Up in nazi costumes!

When the blind follow the blind they all fall,into the ditch!

Bushes grandaddy funded hitler, the house of windsor is german, all of Hitlers nasty scientists went to the states

HERMAN GOERING at the Nuremberg trials.

OF course the people don't want war,but after all it's the leaders of the country who

determine the policy,and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along wether

it's a democracy,fascist dictatorship,or a parliment,or a communist dictatorship. Voice

or no Voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders All you have

to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism,

and exposing the country to greater danger.

These tacktics have been used since man first got together

[scribblet]

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

What about going under RELIGIOUS rule? The Taliban perhaps?

he wasn't, just more unsubstantiated drive by smears.

I guess they choose to ignore good old Tommy Douglas and what he actually stood for...

[Argus]

Canada didn't send troops to Iraq.

That's one decision we made on our own.

With the aid of millions of dollars in massiving polling to let him know which way the winds were blowing both inside and outside the party.

The Conservatives would have had Canada in Iraq. Think that would have been a good decision?

Dunno. The Australians sent troops to Iraq. I don't believe they've even taken one casualty. Certainly they've had far fewer than we have in Afghanistan.

[Argus]

Well if you believe everything that is pushed at you by the Conservatives then you will get the government you deserve. If your son was coming home in a body bag I wonder how you would feel.

This is nothing but emotional twaddle. Don't you have any adult arguments?

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

Here's the problem with that sort of naivity. First, pure, noble, holy people don't get into politics. Politics is a dirty business - and we made it that way. You want truthful leaders? Those are the ones who don't get elected. The people who get elected and prosper are the ones who lie to people repeatedly. Again and again we've seen massive liars elected and re-eleced. Remember Trudeau? Perhaps our most successful prime minister in half a century. He faced off against one of those good, noble men you're hankering after. Bob Stanfield said we needed wage and price controls to reign in out of control inflation. Trudeau ran an entire election on scaring people about price controls, saying they would destroy the country. He won election, and then put in wage and price controls. His popularity sored. Years later, after Clark got in with a minority, Trudeau brought down his government on the basis that its proposed gas tax would destroy the country, then imposed that gas tax himself once elected - and won re-election.

This is the reality of Canadian politics. Tell people the truth, and they'll rush over to the smooth talking liar promising them roses.

Chretien lied massively, about almost everything, and was repeatedly re-elected. Mulroney lied, and won huge majorities.

You want your good, honest man? Examine the also-rans who never made it into parliament. You'll find him there.

Harper can certainly be less than honest, but he's the most honest we've had in decades. So if you're after honesty you ought to be supporting Harper's government.

[betsy]

OF course the people don't want war,but after all it's the leaders of the country who

determine the policy,and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along wether

it's a democracy,fascist dictatorship,or a parliment,or a communist dictatorship. Voice

or no Voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders All you have

to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism,

and exposing the country to greater danger.

These tacktics have been used since man first got together

Well I guess being dragged along is part and parcel of the whole kaboodle when you're a citizen and/or part of a group. That's what it is to choose and have a leader to lead. There can't be all of us planning and cooking in the kitchen.

I guess the Jews being dragged to concentration camps and gas chambers must've thought they were living a nightmare...and that's putting it mildly.

Or those who had lived in fear and repression under the taliban rule. I'm sure the women there took it as just another day in paradise being a chattel, thankful and grateful for each day of not getting whipped or beaten. Of course those kind of existence couldn't possibly come to these shores. All those terrorists acts against the West...those are just figments of our imagination. Too much time on our hands. We'd continue to enjoy life as we know it...for generations to come.

Too bad there aren't too many uninhabited islands so one can become a Crusoe...hope not to be discovered and "colonized."

[margrace]

OF course the people don't want war,but after all it's the leaders of the country who

determine the policy,and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along wether

it's a democracy,fascist dictatorship,or a parliment,or a communist dictatorship. Voice

or no Voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders All you have

to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism,

and exposing the country to greater danger.

These tacktics have been used since man first got together

Well I guess being dragged along is part and parcel of the whole kaboodle when you're a citizen and/or part of a group. That's what it is to choose and have a leader to lead. There can't be all of us planning and cooking in the kitchen.

I guess the Jews being dragged to concentration camps and gas chambers must've thought they were living a nightmare...and that's putting it mildly.

Or those who had lived in fear and repression under the taliban rule. I'm sure the women there took it as just another day in paradise being a chattel, thankful and grateful for each day of not getting whipped or beaten. Of course those kind of existence couldn't possibly come to these shores. All those terrorists acts against the West...those are just figments of our imagination. Too much time on our hands. We'd continue to enjoy life as we know it...for generations to come.

Too bad there aren't too many uninhabited islands so one can become a Crusoe...hope not to be discovered and "colonized."

Boy Jews dragged to the concentration camps, well they could have come to North America and many applied but were turned down. Canadians should not be so hypocritical. Bush is slowly turning the US into a dictatorship and Harper would gladly do the same.

[margrace]

Well if you believe everything that is pushed at you by the Conservatives then you will get the government you deserve. If your son was coming home in a body bag I wonder how you would feel.

To say that Harper and his deputy are honest men certainly makes a mockery of the truth. Harper has fought against our health care all his career and McKay is an out and out liar, he proved that to get the party leadership. I wonder what the incentives were.

No I did not particularly like Martin, rich and hypicritical, Chretien, also a hypocrite in cutting health funding to the provinces, Mulroney, a smiling hypocrite who loves anything American and is a traitor to his country.

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

It is sad to see people whose only claim to fame is that they can find someone to look down on. We could be a great country but greed and power are all we get.

Just curious but who did you have in mind exactly, could you be more specific and maybe cite some sources?

As far as I'm concerned the current conservative gov't is far more honest and ethicsl then anything we've seen in the last 13 years. It was the liberal gov't who wanted to dominate and IMO actually thought they had the 'divine right of kings' to rule. Harper has not 'fought against health care' all his career, what he has wanted is some change and accountability within the act. Continuing to whine and bleat about not getting enough in handouts is typical of socialist gimme more, mentality, let others pay the piper.

We have an honest caring man his name is Stephen Lewis

[margrace]

Well if you believe everything that is pushed at you by the Conservatives then you will get the government you deserve. If your son was coming home in a body bag I wonder how you would feel.

This is nothing but emotional twaddle. Don't you have any adult arguments?

There must be some honest people in this country with good ethics, who do not need power, wealth and dominance of others to make them important. Until we find them we will kill and main ourselves and others.

Here's the problem with that sort of naivity. First, pure, noble, holy people don't get into politics. Politics is a dirty business - and we made it that way. You want truthful leaders? Those are the ones who don't get elected. The people who get elected and prosper are the ones who lie to people repeatedly. Again and again we've seen massive liars elected and re-eleced. Remember Trudeau? Perhaps our most successful prime minister in half a century. He faced off against one of those good, noble men you're hankering after. Bob Stanfield said we needed wage and price controls to reign in out of control inflation. Trudeau ran an entire election on scaring people about price controls, saying they would destroy the country. He won election, and then put in wage and price controls. His popularity sored. Years later, after Clark got in with a minority, Trudeau brought down his government on the basis that its proposed gas tax would destroy the country, then imposed that gas tax himself once elected - and won re-election.

This is the reality of Canadian politics. Tell people the truth, and they'll rush over to the smooth talking liar promising them roses.

Chretien lied massively, about almost everything, and was repeatedly re-elected. Mulroney lied, and won huge majorities.

You want your good, honest man? Examine the also-rans who never made it into parliament. You'll find him there.

Harper can certainly be less than honest, but he's the most honest we've had in decades. So if you're after honesty you ought to be supporting Harper's government.

All the stuff he said in the National Citizens Coalition or whatever it was he was in was lies then????

[margrace]

I never did like Chretien or Martin.

And I happen to like Harper....AND BUSH. And I'm not apologizing for it.

But then, I'm a Conservative...and I do share the same views and values that they represent. So of course I'm a "follower".

I too am pleased with Harper's response to the pressure by some groups to call an immediate cease-fire. It only strengthen my impression of him: that he is a principled man. With a backbone.

Agreed, although Harper is not in absolute lockstep with Bush as the press and leftwing would have us believe. That is mostly left wing propaganda, and the liberals playing on the hatred for Bush as leverage.

The Conservative government is now well into its term and is benefitting as much from the ineffectiveness of the Liberal opposition as from its own merits. It is also refreshing to have a leader and a (deputy leader) with some honesty and a firm stance. In fact, until the Liberals were elected in 1993, Canada usually took "a moderately pro-Israel stance," according to David Bercuson, a military historian at the University of Calgary. It is basically the last Liberal gov't which shifted Canada's position to a 'sitting on the fence' lets wait and see what the polls say. "

The bottom line of course is the war creates jobs and money and that all a lot of our elected leaders care about. It says a lot that in a post above someone said that good people are not elected. Why because they do not believe in manufacturing weaposn, they do not believe in Killing people for their own gain and so on

I get sick and tired of the conservative rhetoric, kill or be killed, lie and its all right, I will never forget McKay and his lies. I only hope there are other sensible Canadians who heard that too.

[Argus]

Boy Jews dragged to the concentration camps, well they could have come to North America and many applied but were turned down. Canadians should not be so hypocritical. Bush is slowly turning the US into a dictatorship and Harper would gladly do the same.

You impress no one with this kind of mindless, ranting spittle.