Israel/Lebanon

[Black Dog]

Hezbollah's Art of Propaganda

Quick, somebody put these guys in touch with Karen Hughes. I'm sure she could use some talented spin doctors.

As for the substance of the post itself, much of the conspiracy theorizing within has been debunked by the IDF itself. For example, the claim that there were rockets being launched from the houses was retracted on Monday.

[Rue]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

If I was running such a country, I simply wouldn't allow my borders to be penetrated by anyone.....................period. The borders in all directions would be heavily militerized at all times. Lets face it, were not talking about Canada/U.S. here, were talking about a border that spans 40 miles on the northern front. To make things more clear, were talking about a country that produces (yes, mozza ball soup, gaffelta fish etc.) more soldiers per capita than any nation in the world, that are armed with the latest killing machines know to mankind.

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon, because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border. It's their own F'ing fault. If a family "out for a stroll" were the victims, that would be a different story............these were soldiers, with loaded assault weapons and obviously lacking support. A mistake by Israel and its command structure within the military.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

First of all try reading about the origins of Lebanon and the history of terrorist strikes from Lebanon, The West Bank, and Gaza before you make simplistic analysis and try look for a good guy and bad guy. There is no good guy or bad guy. What there is, is a sovereign nation Israel trying to defend itself against terrorist cells operating from the Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon that have made it crystal clear their mandate is to destroy Israel and let us be clear about this, attack and kill Jews world wide and use civilians as shields and fire missiles from yards away form UN observer posts from the midst of civilian sites. Let us also be clear the choice to shoot missiles from civilian sites is a deliberate choice to place civilians in the line of return cross fire to deliberately kill them to manipulate world opinion. These terrorists have chosen not to engage in conventional war and they have chosen to engage in terrorism.

These terrorists are not freedom fighters, but in fact thugs, armed murderers who use the illicit sale of drugs and stolen goods not to mention the funding of illegal crimes such as sex slavery, human slavery, and world-wide organized financial fraud to raise their money. Many of these terrorists who are lumped into Hezbollah, Hamas and Jihad are in fact criminal war lords and it is convenient right now for them to ally with fundamentalist Shiite Muslims.

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age, so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance. Their behaviour is in-line with only ONE OTHER NATION: the U.S.A..

Curious. The "born again drunk" strikes again. Anyway, it's infuriating.

On a different note: Every Canadian taken out of Lebanon should be charged for it. There is no justification what so ever, to have Canadian taxpayers "flip the bill" given the state of affairs in the middle east in general: if you want to visit/live in these areas while holding a Canadian passport........you're on your own.

Perhaps bringing "MOMMA" to Canada for a visit is a more sensible solution as opposed to taking yourself and children to the middle east..........you dummies.

Your idiotic comments that Israel makes matzah balls only serves to lend to the appearance you

have no idea how Israel's economy works. The reason why it has the army it has, if you bothered to read before you post such articles making such statements, is that it has been at war since 1948 with Syria, Lebanon and the majority of Arab States in the Arab Leaguge including technically Jordan. In fact Egypt is the only Arab state with an official peace treaty. Everyone else is technically at war.

Israel maintains its presence because if you bothered to read, you would understand it is completely surrounded by countries hostile to its existence and who allow terrorist cells to launch attacks from these countries.

The only thing infurating is your simplistic analysis and complete lack of awareness of what is going on.

One last thing you call Israel's response a dispicable display of intolerance. Why are you silent on what Hezbollah has done and the fact it was Hezbollah's decision to use humans as shields that is getting them killed. Oh don't tell me. It would be discpicable intolerance if I were to shoot at you, then hide behind a child, keep shooting at you, and you tried to shoot back to kill me before I killed you. Love your logic.

[Rue]

Last week, a senior journalist let slip how the news media allows its Mideast coverage to be distorted. CNN "senior international correspondent" Nic Robertson admitted that his anti-Israel report from Beirut on July 18 about civilian casualties in Lebanon was stage-managed from start to finish by Hezbollah. In particular, he revealed that his story was heavily influenced by the group's "press officer," and that Hezbollah have "very, very sophisticated and slick media operations

When pressed a few days later about his reporting on the CNN program Reliable Sources, Robertson acknowledged that Hezbollah militants had instructed the CNN camera team where and what to film. Hezbollah "had control of the situation," Robertson said. "They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn't have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath." ."

In other words Hizbullah's media relations operates exactly the same way as Israel, the United States and any other western nation or, indeed, any large organization. But when they do it, it's "distortion." When we do it, it's "fair and balanced."

You again display a complete and utter lack of awareness of how Hezbollah operates otherwise you would not make such a statement such as Hezbollah's media operates the same way as does ISrael's. Black Dog for once in your life, try to contribute to this dialogue constructively by at least making an attempt to read and find out how Hezbollah's media operations actually work. You never bothered before you shot off and made this statement.

[Rue]

Hezbollah's Art of Propaganda

Quick, somebody put these guys in touch with Karen Hughes. I'm sure she could use some talented spin doctors.

As for the substance of the post itself, much of the conspiracy theorizing within has been debunked by the IDF itself. For example, the claim that there were rockets being launched from the houses was retracted on Monday.

Your comments above are 100% false. The IDF ahs not rectracted or issued any statements even remotely close to what you stated above. At this point you are simply fabricating things and I challenge you to produce the original statement from the IDF and then the one from the IDF retracting the original statement.

[Black Dog]

Your comments above are 100% false. The IDF ahs not rectracted or issued any statements even remotely close to what you stated above. At this point you are simply fabricating things and I challenge you to produce the original statement from the IDF and then the one from the IDF retracting the original statement.

IDF's English site seems to be down at the moment, but I have this from Ha'aretz:

As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

[theloniusfleabag]

Here is an interesting read...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=109072

Tought to tell what the truth is anymore...

dealing with carefully orchestrated and large-scale deception of this kind. It is time that it be recognized as a weapon of warfare, and an extremely potent one at that."

[Rue]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

If I was running such a country, I simply wouldn't allow my borders to be penetrated by anyone.....................period. The borders in all directions would be heavily militerized at all times. Lets face it, were not talking about Canada/U.S. here, were talking about a border that spans 40 miles on the northern front. To make things more clear, were talking about a country that produces (yes, mozza ball soup, gaffelta fish etc.) more soldiers per capita than any nation in the world, that are armed with the latest killing machines know to mankind.

All of which is pretty much true. Which is odd given everything you write after this is such utter mindless drivel

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon,

Well, since there an absolute mountain of evidence they're doing no such thing I shouldn't think much justification is necessary. I'm quite tired, really, of these panicky, wide-eyed, knowledge free posts wherein people see some rubble on television and run pell-mell to their computer to tell me how horrified they are at the awesome slaughter and blitzkreik and genocide and indescriminate bombing and murder in Lebanon. Grow up. Learn a little history. Try and buy a sense of reality. Investigate the possiblity of placing things into context.

Six hundred children are dying every day in Congo, according to UNICEF.

Ten thousand people are killed every month in Darfur.

There are countless other intercine struggles around the world right now taking more lives than this little spat in Lebanon.

What is happening in Lebanon is small change indeed.

You are seeing it every day on television, and so seem to believe it's some kind of massive, end-of-the-world nightmarish struggle for survival. But it's only big news because there are lots of comfortable hotels and restaurants nearby for the international press to relax in, and because it involves Israel, which the modern liberal left has come to despise.

because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border.

Rather, because Hezbollah has been firing rockets into Israel for months now, and then because, in a carefully archestrated attack, two Israeli soldiers (I have seen information they aren't even Jews) were kidnapped, and a huge IED was set along with an ambush for the inevitable rescuers during which eight Israelis were killed. One of them, btw, was a Canadian, if that matters to you.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

The most apt comparison to this is to say that the rape victim is at fault for being attractive.

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age,

Then stop watching the news. If you have no ability to place things into context and no way of understanding the underlying reasons for conflict then go and play video games. You'll feel better.

so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance.

I too am intolerant of having my people murdered. Fancy that. I admire your tolerance. Can I come over and kill some friends of yours later on today?

Speaking of mindless drivel.

I guess "your people" have it all worked out. Suddenly, after 40+ years of "mindless drivel", you'll get things right? Show me.

What have you done right? .........apart from nothing. Israel acts as the spoiled child of the U.S. like a bunch of sacred babies.

Somebody hits Israel with ordanance that is akin with a "sling-shot" in its accuracy, and the cruise missiles fly. Big brother offers sattelite imagry so you can defeat the evil ones...........and you still can't be decent............you have to kill as many as you can.

I was in the region as a soldier for over 12 years, so don't bullshit me about the peacefull nature of the Israeli government. Their ruthless and dispicable intrusions in to other territories was both common and joyfull with the troops I met. Killing a Palestinion man/woman at long range was quite a laugh amongst the troops...........a contest if you will. Supper was brought to them and they were pampered.

I never encountered that on the other side. They were simple people that would avenge these killings if they could .........believe me.......IF THEY COULD!

Think of that drivel. Perhaps its worth noting that all Israeli agression in the region has acomplished nothing............as a matter of fact , it has created war........again and again.

You spoiled little babies don't have a clue do you?

As far as you attacking my freinds? Go for it! I can stay within my borders and make you disappear.

Before you lecture people e and call them a spoiled brat and state Israeli soldiers delighted in harming your people remember this not all of us are gullible. I was yards away from you watching as you did nothing to stop terrorism and openly supported it and revelled when innocent Jews were killed, so don't act like a victim you are far from one.

Let us call your bluff-answer the only question any of us need ask in regards to this debate-what has terrorism achieved for your people?

[Black Dog]

Maybe the palestinians believe terrorism will lead to statehood. I can see why they'd think so: it did, after all, work for Israel.

Anyway, some light reading.

So the analysts talking on cable news about Hezbollah "hiding within the civilian population" clearly have spent little time if any in the south Lebanon war zone and don't know what they're talking about. Hezbollah doesn't trust the civilian population and has worked very hard to evacuate as much of it as possible from the battlefield. And this is why they fight so well -- with no one to spy on them, they have lots of chances to take the Israel Defense Forces by surprise, as they have by continuing to fire rockets and punish every Israeli ground incursion.

[Rue]

Maybe the palestinians believe terrorism will lead to statehood. I can see why they'd think so: it did, after all, work for Israel.

Anyway, some light reading.

So the analysts talking on cable news about Hezbollah "hiding within the civilian population" clearly have spent little time if any in the south Lebanon war zone and don't know what they're talking about. Hezbollah doesn't trust the civilian population and has worked very hard to evacuate as much of it as possible from the battlefield. And this is why they fight so well -- with no one to spy on them, they have lots of chances to take the Israel Defense Forces by surprise, as they have by continuing to fire rockets and punish every Israeli ground incursion.

For the record I have been in south Lebanon, The West bank and Gaza, and I know for a fact that Hezbollah has and will continue to use civilians as shields and does not have to trust its civilian population. This is a silly thing to say. Its civilians have no say. How Hezbolah establishes itself and does what it does with its own civilians is not through anything other then the fact that it uses violence and force. If you are a moderate Shiite who wants peace do you really think you can go up to Hezbollah and say, gee Mr. Terrorist can we try talking instead.

The comment that Hezbollah tries to evacuate civilians is completely and utterly false. Hezbollah has never ever tried to move civilians and in fact openly brags about how it uses civilians as shields. The above comments are subjective opinions and I defy the writer to provide proof that Hezbollah tries hard to move its civilians. The fact that the writer said Hezbollah doesn't trust civilians should have been a tip off right there that this person knows nothing about Hezbollah to make such statements. Terrorists don't trust anyone. They do not have to either. People who believe in violence to impose political desires, are not about to trust even their own cell members...that is the nature of socio-pathic killing.

One more point. Black Dog made another statement about the history of Israel that is false. Terrorism is not what achieved Israel's statehood. Irgun the terrorist group did not achieve statehood for Israel. It was those Jews who chose instead to use diplomacy and fight conventionally and the willingness of Jews to sacrifice their lives in incidents such as the Exodus that achieved statehood. What Black Dog is doing is what many people who justify Middle East terorism try to do-say since jews did it, Arabs can do it. Terrorism does nto achieve independence, what it does achieve is a legacy of never ending violence and it is an insult to all the Jews who did not engage in terrorism and who were the majority of Jews that obtained a country for anyone to say it did. It ignores history and it ignores that rational processes in the long run are the way to go. The moment you try intellectualize and get smarmy and try get cute with terrorism, you in fact condone it/

[Black Dog]

One more point. Black Dog made another statement about the history of Israel that is false. Terrorism is not what achieved Israel's statehood. Irgun the terrorist group did not achieve statehood for Israel.

No, but it helped them get there. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

Terrorism does nto achieve independence, what it does achieve is a legacy of never ending violence...

So can we blame Irgun and the Stern gang for the continuing violence? Terrorism does work, there's many other examples outside of Israel that prove that point.

he moment you try intellectualize and get smarmy and try get cute with terrorism, you in fact condone it

Do you then condemn the Irgun?

[Rue]

One more point. Black Dog made another statement about the history of Israel that is false. Terrorism is not what achieved Israel's statehood. Irgun the terrorist group did not achieve statehood for Israel.

No, but it helped them get there. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

Terrorism does nto achieve independence, what it does achieve is a legacy of never ending violence...

So can we blame Irgun and the Stern gang for the continuing violence? Terrorism does work, there's many other examples outside of Israel that prove that point.

he moment you try intellectualize and get smarmy and try get cute with terrorism, you in fact condone it

Do you then condemn the Irgun?

I state without any hesitation that any violence, by anyone including Irgun, was and is wrong.

The Irgun and Stern gangs were two terrorist cells. Their numbers paled in comparison to Haganah. Read up about Haganah. You should also read up on the British soldiers who directly refused orders and tried to help Jews and Arabs. You can also read up as to the Arabs who helped Jews come to Palestine and lived with them peacefully until fundamentalists from other countries killed them.

[Rue]

I will state this again without hesitation in response to Black Dog and his claim I am pretending. If you takew the time to read the history of the creation of Israel in 1949, you will see that terrorism, which some people like to emphasize and give importance and credence to, was but one part of a vastly greater world wide effort of not just Jews but peaceful Arabs and Christians that enabled Israel to become a nation. Yes there was a war. Yes there was terrorism but it is ludicrous and absolutely inaccurate to PRETEND that violence achieved Israel's dependence. Violence and the holocaust was the fuel that caused Jews to once and for all go back to Israel, but hope, belief in humanity, belief in a positive way of life, belief in living another day and finding a reason to live, was what led to Israel's dependence. Those holocaust survivors who could not or can not overcome their hatred or fears, do not want you to be like them.

I was taught by a former member of Irgun. At no time did he encourage me to be violent or use terrorism. He survived Aushwitz by hiding under dead bodies. When he went to Israel and joined Irgun he felt he was a walking dead man. He had all but died and his fight to live and survive at that point was fueled by sheer desperation. Many years later, this man took the time to talk to people like me and explain why violence is

moral failure. You have no idea what horrors and regrets this man took to his death bed. I can only pray he forgave himself and pray you never lived through what he did.

In regards to those young children born in violence in the Gaza and West Bank, they need precisely people like you to tell them and show them there is an alternative to violence. This former Irgun member found an alternative to violence. So can they. It is not a pipe dream but it must start with us not trying to get smarmy and justify terrorism or play games of one upsmanship with who was the terrorist first.

[Black Dog]

Yes there was a war. Yes there was terrorism but it is ludicrous and absolutely inaccurate to PRETEND that violence achieved Israel's dependence.

No one said it did, only that it played a role.

I was taught by a former member of Irgun. At no time did he encourage me to be violent or use terrorism. He survived Aushwitz by hiding under dead bodies. When he went to Israel and joined Irgun he felt he was a walking dead man. He had all but died and his fight to live and survive at that point was fueled by sheer desperation. Many years later, this man took the time to talk to people like me and explain why violence is

moral failure. You have no idea what horrors and regrets this man took to his death bed. I can only pray he forgave himself and pray you never lived through what he did.

Yet terrorism is still celebrated. For instance, the bombing of the King David Hotel was just celebrated by right-wing Israelis. So as much as "shootingand crying" has been intigrated into Israeli culture, let's not ptretend that violence doesn't work or that there isn't an abiding belief in its power and morality on all sides of this conflict.

[scribblet]

Have to post this, luv it

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014887.php

Yalla Ya Nasrallah

Periodically, as a form of psychological warfare, the Israelis hack into Lebanese television and play this video, which expresses disdain--to put it mildly--for Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah:

How effective is it, I have no idea, but it's highly entertaining, and the tune is catchy.