Afghanistan

[capricorn]

The UK Ministry of Defence is investigating reports of threatening phone calls made to the family members of UK troops serving in Afstan. I suppose these could be crank calls from anti-war activists and not the Taleban. In any case, whoever is behind these calls are vile individuals.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1280902,00.html

I hope our soldiers deployed in Afstan don't bring their cell phones. All precautions are necessary to reduce the harm they're exposed to over there.

[weaponeer]

The UK Ministry of Defence is investigating reports of threatening phone calls made to the family members of UK troops serving in Afstan. I suppose these could be crank calls from anti-war activists and not the Taleban. In any case, whoever is behind these calls are vile individuals.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1280902,00.html

I hope our soldiers deployed in Afstan don't bring their cell phones. All precautions are necessary to reduce the harm they're exposed to over there.

could not agree more........ scum!!

[weaponeer]

Segregation not always a bad thing

By SCOTT TAYLOR | 6:06 AM

RECENT MEDIA reports out of Afghanistan have hinted that there is a slight (might be an understatement) rift between the outgoing anglophone Canadian units and the newly arrived French speaking Royal 22nd Regiment (Vandoos). One anecdote detailed how members of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry were instructing their Afghan police recruits on some basic French phrases. Using phonetic repetition in the belief that they were learning how to say "Hello, how are you?" in French, the Afghans were overheard chanting "F- - - you, Vandoo" by an embedded journalist.

Such sophomoric practical jokes could easily be dismissed as harmless inter-regimental rivalry, but those familiar with our army's recent past know that the animosity between our anglophone and francophone combat units runs deeper than that. One of the reasons for this is that the senior brass has consistently oversold the Vandoos, and the media have bought into the largely unwarranted hype without question.

In the weeks leading up to the troop rotation currently underway, any reference to the Vandoos was invariably embellished with a glowing adjective such as "famed," "fabled" or "storied." (Or "vaunted.") Until now, the combat operations in Afghanistan have been conducted (repeatedly) by either the Princess Patricia's Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment, and yet neither of these units receives similarly fawning monikers in the national press.

When one factors in that the casualty count of 66 dead and 260 wounded to date has been borne solely by these anglophone regiments, one can understand their resentment when headlines herald the francophones arrival with such phrases as "Vandoos bring can-do spirit to Afghanistan." Without having taken a single patrol outside the wire in Kandahar, one francophone officer told reporters he felt his troops could do "a better job" at reconstruction than the homeward bound veterans.

Lost in the media love affair is the fact that the Vandoos were directly responsible for three of the biggest black eyes the Canadian military received during the scandal-plagued 1990s.

First there was the release of a notorious hazing video depicting Vandoo paratroopers engaged in public acts of drunkenness, nudity, defecation, feces-ingestion and simulated sodomy, all of which directly led to the 1995 disbandment of the entire Canadian Airborne Regiment.

And in 1996 it was revealed that a large number of Vandoos had discredited themselves while guarding a mental hospital in Bakovici, Bosnia. Among the allegations was that an officer had sex with a female patient while his drunken troops shouted encouragement. Despite internal police reports and evidence, the military brass had kept the lid on this scandal for three years. Subsequent investigations implicated nearly three dozen Vandoos in the misconduct, but due to the expired statute of limitations, no charges were laid and names of the accused were not released. The entire army was tarnished by the scandal.

Later that same year, Lt.-Gen. Armand Roy, the senior serving Vandoo, was dismissed from his post as the deputy chief of defence staff. Publicly fired from the army, Roy was ordered to repay more than $86,000 that he had allegedly misappropriated.

The rank and file were shell-shocked to learn that the Judge Advocate General would not press charges against the disgraced general, the most senior official in Canada ever dismissed for theft. The double standard of justice led to a collapse of faith in the military hierarchy and a top-to-bottom review of the military justice system.

That being stated, I have no doubt that the current rotation of Vandoos into Afghanistan is eager to erase the recent past and will set out to earn the copious praise that has been heaped upon them. What we should learn from our own linguistic diversity is that despite the fact we are an officially (but not in any practical sense) bilingual army, in order to maximize efficiency at the operational level we recognize the need to have segregated combat units.

As we shift the focus to training the Afghan National Army, perhaps the architects of this new force should look to the Canadian example. Rather than simply herding together Afghan recruits into one single battalion, why not separate them into sub-units that allow them to train and fight with members of their own language and ethnicity?

For the record, there are 10 major ethnic factions in Afghanistan - Pashtu, Persian, Uzbek, Tajik, Turkmen, Hazara, Baluch, Waziri, Kirgiz and Arab - and their past history of bitter inter-sectarian violence runs far deeper than our little Canadian inter-regimental rivalries.

The regimental rivalry continues........

[jdobbin]

Segregation not always a bad thing

The regimental rivalry continues........

Yeesh. That's the first I heard on this topic. Ouch.

Thanks for posting it.

[weaponeer]

Yeesh. That's the first I heard on this topic. Ouch.

Thanks for posting it.

What many Canadians do not realize is that we have a segregated military, French units and English units, and none the two shall meet. We have a French fighter squardon and two english ones (one is training sqn), we have 3 infantry regts, 2 Eng, 1 French, two navy frigates, Montreal & Ville de Quebec, French ships, and countless sub-units...... Big rivalry...but it works...

[M.Dancer]

What many Canadians do not realize is that we have a segregated military, French units and English units, and none the two shall meet. We have a French fighter squardon and two english ones (one is training sqn), we have 3 infantry regts, 2 Eng, 1 French, two navy frigates, Montreal & Ville de Quebec, French ships, and countless sub-units...... Big rivalry...but it works...

When I was with the Black Watch we trained all the time with French Units. 12e Blinde and of course other French militia units.

[weaponeer]

When I was with the Black Watch we trained all the time with French Units. 12e Blinde and of course other French militia units.

Yes, It works, but regt rivalry is normal, expected....

[jdobbin]

The major news services are reporting two Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Two Canadian soldiers and an interpreter have been killed in Afghanistan during a patrol, Radio Canada reports.

Another soldier and two Canadian journalists were injured in the same incident, which occurred in southern Afghanistan.

Public broadcaster Radio Canada said both journalists were its employees.

[jbg]

What many Canadians do not realize is that we have a segregated military, French units and English units, and none the two shall meet. We have a French fighter squardon and two english ones (one is training sqn), we have 3 infantry regts, 2 Eng, 1 French, two navy frigates, Montreal & Ville de Quebec, French ships, and countless sub-units...... Big rivalry...but it works...

The US desegregated its Army in 1947.

[capricorn]

The US desegregated its Army in 1947.

Canada came about through joining 2 founding peoples, English and French. We have a segregated country, Quebec and the ROC. So, our armed forces follow the design of the country. As weaponeer said, never the 2 shall meet.

What Canada did do is unify land, sea and air commands into one unified structure, complete with standardized uniforms. There is still plenty of controversy over that move. But unify along language lines? Noooooooo.

The Canadian Forces was formed on February 1, 1968, when the Canadian government merged the Canadian Army, the Royal Canadian Navy and the Royal Canadian Air Force into a unified structure. Canada remains one of the few developed countries in the world using this model for organizing its military forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces

My sincere condolences to the families of our 3 recently fallen heroes.

[weaponeer]

The US desegregated its Army in 1947.

The US military desegragated because it was based on race, ours is language. Black & white soldiers could understand each other. You cannot have an officer in the heat of combat shouting out orders and commands to soldiers in both langs, it is stupid, you need one lang, cuts confussion & fog of war. If you are an English Canadian in the R22R, and there are some, you speak French only and French Canadians in the RCR, PPCLI, LSH(RC) speak only English.

As for the fallen CANADIAN soldiers, NOT Quebec soldiers, thank you CBC/CTV RIP......

[runningdog]

The US military desegragated because it was based on race, ours is language. Black & white soldiers could understand each other. You cannot have an officer in the heat of combat shouting out orders and commands to soldiers in both langs, it is stupid, you need one lang, cuts confussion & fog of war. If you are an English Canadian in the R22R, and there are some, you speak French only and French Canadians in the RCR, PPCLI, LSH(RC) speak only English.

As for the fallen CANADIAN soldiers, NOT Quebec soldiers, thank you CBC/CTV RIP......

I don't know what channel you're watching, but every report I've heard has refered to them as Canadians based in Quebec.

[weaponeer]

I don't know what channel you're watching, but every report I've heard has refered to them as Canadians based in Quebec.

We were watching both CTV & CBC, and the first soldier was refered to several times as a Quebec soldier. It has now stopped I see, I know someone here was dealing with that. Danielle I believe is her name, is here from CTV, some folks mentioned it to her I believe. The reporters here are part of the "team", and we talk with them regularly offline about issues....

[capricorn]

You cannot have an officer in the heat of combat shouting out orders and commands to soldiers in both langs, it is stupid, you need one lang, cuts confussion & fog of war. If you are an English Canadian in the R22R, and there are some, you speak French only and French Canadians in the RCR, PPCLI, LSH(RC) speak only English.

Quite right, weaponeer. It was pretty short-sighted on my part not to have perceived that problem in my previous post. I am not in the thick of things as you are. I appreciate your contribution to set things straight on matters not obvious to some of us.

I'm curious. Can fully bilingual recruits opt to serve in units of either language or are recruits required (or encouraged) to join units on the basis of their first language? Thanks.

Edited August 23, 2007 by capricorn

[jbg]

The US military desegragated because it was based on race, ours is language. Black & white soldiers could understand each other. You cannot have an officer in the heat of combat shouting out orders and commands to soldiers in both langs, it is stupid, you need one lang, cuts confussion & fog of war. If you are an English Canadian in the R22R, and there are some, you speak French only and French Canadians in the RCR, PPCLI, LSH(RC) speak only English.

As for the fallen CANADIAN soldiers, NOT Quebec soldiers, thank you CBC/CTV RIP......

Weaponeer, I have no doubt about your sincerity. However, it is time for the Quebec soldiers to learn the language.

[weaponeer]

Quite right, weaponeer. It was pretty short-sighted on my part not to have perceived that problem in my previous post. I am not in the thick of things as you are. I appreciate your contribution to set things straight on matters not obvious to some of us.

I'm curious. Can fully bilingual recruits opt to serve in units of either language or are recruits required (or encouraged) to join units on the basis of their first language? Thanks.

The three services have some differences, the Airforce only has 1 French Wing, 3 Wg in Bagotville. They conduct all admin in French, but all flying operations are in English as those are the ICAO rules, and the NORAD rules. There is 1 French Helo Squadron at Valcartier, other that that it is all English.

The Navy has two French lang frigates, Motreal & Ville De Quebec, all admin & ops are conducted in French. The Army has 3 Frech regts, R22R, Infantry, 12 RBC, tanks & 5 RALC, arty. They are assigned to 5 Birgade Group (French Canadian Brigade) in Valcartier, however they are all here in Khandahar these days. 5 BG is a French unit, all admin & ops in French.

As a bilingual recruit you can join any service, and be assigned to any unit within that service. Being uni-lingual does not prevent you from being assigned to any unit either, the military would send you on a year long French/English course before you report for duty if it came to that. There are mnay anglos in 5 BG at Valcartier, however at work and on ops they speak French. There are many Fancos in English units as well. Many francos who join the military and leave Quebec do not want to go back, ever. They enjoy paying taxes in Alberta more than Quebec:)

The segragation is only the UNIT. It is a French lang unit, or and English lang unit. There are francos & anglos in each however....

[M.Dancer]

Weaponeer, I have no doubt about your sincerity. However, it is time for the Quebec soldiers to learn the language.

They speak french perfectly. Now if at some point americans learn to speak english properly, we will talk.

[jdobbin]

The British soldiers were killed today in a friendly fire incident. An investigation is now underway.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

A friendly fire incident has claimed the lives of three British troops, killed while on patrol in Afghanistan.

A bomb dropped from a U.S. jet is believed to have been responsible for the deaths, the U.K. Ministry of Defence said Friday in a press release.

The soldiers were patrolling northwest of Kajaki, in southern Helmand province, Thursday evening when they were attacked by Taliban insurgents.

"During the intense engagement that ensued, close air support was called in from two US F15 aircraft to repel the enemy. One bomb was dropped and it is believed the explosion killed the three soldiers," says the press release.

Hopefully, the investigation into this will be thorough. Given the cover-ups and lack of transparency of the other investigations, I think there will be little patience for it, especially in Britain.

[jdobbin]

Another pretty rough day in Afghanistan.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070828/worl...hanistan_unrest

KABUL (AFP) - A suicide bomber in eastern Afghanistan killed three NATO soldiers Tuesday as six Afghan troops and more than 20 Taliban rebels were reported dead in new insurgency-linked attacks across the country.

The suicide blast, similar to scores carried out by the hardline Taliban militia, struck soldiers working at a project to build a bridge in the east of the country, the NATO-led alliance said.

Six other soldiers were wounded in the attack, it said in a statement that did not give the nationalities of the soldiers or the location of the attack.

The attacker approached the soldiers and blew himself up, killing himself and two soldiers immediately, the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force said. Another died en route to a hospital, it said.

The nearly 50,000 international troops in Afghanistan have been hit by a wave of attacks that have left nine dead since Sunday.

Three coalition soldiers and two Afghan troops were killed in a Taliban ambush on Monday in eastern Afghanistan, while a NATO trooper died in a nearby area on the same day.

Two other NATO soldiers died in attacks on Sunday.

Meanwhile, Harper never mentioned Afghanistan in a swing through Quebec for the byelection.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...26?hub=Politics

At his first Quebec appearance since two Quebec-based soldiers died in Afghanistan, Prime Minister Stephen Harper nearly completely refrained from commenting on the mission in the war-ravaged country.

In a wide-ranging, 20-minute speech in Victoriaville on Sunday, Harper had just one paragraph for the military.

"When men and women volunteer and find themselves in dangerous places to defend our values and our way of life, we thank, from the bottom of our hearts, these men and women who wear the uniform for the peace, freedom and prosperity that their efforts allow us to enjoy," he said in French, adding that Conservatives weren't ashamed of "Canada's rich military heritage."

Several pollsters have said that the government needs to explain the mission to Canadians. Not mentioning it is not explaining it.

Edited August 28, 2007 by jdobbin

[noahbody]

Several pollsters have said that the government needs to explain the mission to Canadians. Not mentioning it is not explaining it.

This is like the kid who doesn't pay attention in class who then blames the teacher for not teaching him.

[jdobbin]

This is like the kid who doesn't pay attention in class who then blames the teacher for not teaching him.

So you think that people are not paying attention to what Harper has to say about the mission? How so when even soldiers say he hasn't done a good job of defining the mission?

[noahbody]

So you think that people are not paying attention to what Harper has to say about the mission? How so when even soldiers say he hasn't done a good job of defining the mission?

Most Canadians are apathetic and don't care enough to pay attention. Some still don't know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan.

I assume soldiers are puzzled why support is low. It's really not surprising though. Those who take a casual interest are only going to hear stuff like Harper "nearly completely " refrained from mentioning Afghanistan in a speech. Fact is, he did mention it and his message was one of pride.

Edited August 28, 2007 by noahbody

[jdobbin]

Most Canadians are apathetic and don't care enough to pay attention. Some still don't know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan.

I assume soldiers are puzzled why support is low. It's really not surprised though. Those who take a casual interest are only going to hear stuff like Harper "nearly completely " refrained from mentioning Afghanistan in a speech. Fact is, he did mention it and his message was one of pride.

The media reports have mentioned surprise amongst the troops about the low support but also on their questioning the prime minister's instinct was to remain quiet last year when casualties mounted.

I suppose people can take to blaming the media and the public for not paying attention but if support for the mission remains split the way it is, the prime minister has to take some responsibility. Calling the public stupid and/or apathetic probably won't cut it.

[jdobbin]

Little aid reaching Afghans says Senlis Council.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

There is little evidence that Canadian aid in Afghanistan is helping those who desperately need it, including malnourished children in Kandahar's hospital, according to a report by The Senlis Council.

The international policy think tank was invited to Afghanistan this month by the Canadian International Development Agency, to see first-hand how Ottawa was directing its funds.

But Senlis president Norine MacDonald said it was difficult to trace spending as outlined by the agency.

The Council visited the Mirwais Hospital in Kandahar, but found little evidence Canadian aid money had been used as CIDA claimed.

* The full report can be found here.

The group found no trace of the Maternal Waiting Home project, listed by CIDA as one of the agency's projects.

Meanwhile, the ward for starving children "not only still exists but is horribly over-crowded," according to the report. The group found 28 children sharing eight beds in one of the ward's rooms.

A Canadian solider was also reported dead on the base. No further word is available yet on what happened.

[capricorn]

The three services have some differences, .....

Thanks for the clarification weaponeer. I was remiss in not thanking you sooner for your response to my question.