Harper backs down and allows media on tarmac

[BubberMiley]

Harper seems to have found himself in a no-win situation when Tim Goddard said that his daughter died to defend freedom in this country, not watch it being taken away by an overly-controlling prime minister. It looks like he lost round one, but I have a feeling we haven't heard the end of this story.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

[scribblet]

Harper seems to have found himself in a no-win situation when Tim Goddard said that his daughter died to defend freedom in this country, not watch it being taken away by an overly-controlling prime minister. It looks like he lost round one, but I have a feeling we haven't heard the end of this story.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

It seems he is listening to the people and acting accordingly - isn't that what we expect or want?

However, I'm not sure that the father was being right to byu asserting his political opiniond about the war and bashing the gov't for being against "freedom". Seems to me the father was using his daughter's death as a political weapon.

[Argus]

Harper seems to have found himself in a no-win situation when Tim Goddard said that his daughter died to defend freedom in this country, not watch it being taken away by an overly-controlling prime minister. It looks like he lost round one, but I have a feeling we haven't heard the end of this story.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

It's sad that Goddard chose to use his daughter's death for political reasons, but I have zero sympathy for the media. They get to cover the ceremonies when the bodies are shipped home, and the funerals. Why must they cover every single thing to do with these deaths? Why must their cameras be in everyone's faces at all times?

This is a bad decision by Harper, as it means that every family will now face demands from the media to open up the landings to them, and what should be a solemn, private moment when the bodies are returned to Canada and their families will become just another media moment for the plasticized talking heads.

[August1991]

This thread is misleading. From link above:

“I had given fairly clear instructions that, when bodies were to come home, families were to be consulted,” Mr. Harper said at a news conference in Victoria. “And if all families were agreed on making that particular ceremony public, that our government should have no difficulty with that. I'm not sure what happened in this case.”

Mr. Harper said he spoke with Dr. Goddard this week. “He didn't raise the issue with me so I didn't realize there was a problem, but obviously I'll look into it and find out if the family's wishes were different to what was done and why that was the case and we'll correct it in the future.”

I'm confused. Is the issue solely whether the media will be present on the tarmac when a coffin is removed from a plane?

[BubberMiley]

It seems he is listening to the people and acting accordingly - isn't that what we expect or want?

It seems he is doing what he wants, regardless of the wishes of the family.

However, I'm not sure that the father was being right to byu asserting his political opiniond about the war and bashing the gov't for being against "freedom". Seems to me the father was using his daughter's death as a political weapon.

I think the father has every right to say what he wants. You shouldn't try to shut people up just because you don't agree with them.

[BHS]

Hey, I've got a great idea! Let's rip the caskets open when they unload them from the transports and splash the images of the war dead across the national news! Then press freedom will be completely complete!!!

[BubberMiley]

I don't think the families would want that.

[Hicksey]

However, I'm not sure that the father was being right to byu asserting his political opiniond about the war and bashing the gov't for being against "freedom". Seems to me the father was using his daughter's death as a political weapon.

I think the father has every right to say what he wants. You shouldn't try to shut people up just because you don't agree with them.

You're exactly right BM. But just like Harper has been criticized for how he has dealt with this issue, the father shouldn't be shielded from criticism for using his dead daughter to further a political agenda. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of what you say.

[Guest Warwick Green]

However, I'm not sure that the father was being right to byu asserting his political opiniond about the war and bashing the gov't for being against "freedom". Seems to me the father was using his daughter's death as a political weapon.

I think the father has every right to say what he wants. You shouldn't try to shut people up just because you don't agree with them.

You're exactly right BM. But just like Harper has been criticized for how he has dealt with this issue, the father shouldn't be shielded from criticism for using his dead daughter to further a political agenda. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of what you say.

Harper is the guy with the political agenda. The father has every right to oppose Harper's attempts to curtail press coverage of deaths in Afghanistan. However, using a church service to make the point shows poor judgement on his part.

[BubberMiley]

However, using a church service to make the point shows poor judgement on his part.

Why?

[Guest Warwick Green]

However, using a church service to make the point shows poor judgement on his part.

Why?

Because he was addressing a political issue, one that has generated controversy. If he wanted to make the point about media access he could have held a press conference after the church service.

But no question, people use the pulpit to pursue political ends - like the priest who told his congregation not to read the Da Vinci Code. Personally I think that kind of comment makes the church look ridiculous but if wants to inject that kind of stuff into his sermons that's up to him.

[Hicksey]

However, I'm not sure that the father was being right to byu asserting his political opiniond about the war and bashing the gov't for being against "freedom". Seems to me the father was using his daughter's death as a political weapon.

I think the father has every right to say what he wants. You shouldn't try to shut people up just because you don't agree with them.

You're exactly right BM. But just like Harper has been criticized for how he has dealt with this issue, the father shouldn't be shielded from criticism for using his dead daughter to further a political agenda. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of what you say.

Harper is the guy with the political agenda. The father has every right to oppose Harper's attempts to curtail press coverage of deaths in Afghanistan. However, using a church service to make the point shows poor judgement on his part.

I don't where you got that I was giving Harper a free pass on this. They BOTH have political agendas, a point to which to anyone that's halfway intellectually honest would not have any trouble admitting. All I said that if the parents want to jump into the media and make those kinds of statements that they shouldn't be any less accountable for it than anyone else.

My personal viewpoint is that the default policy should be not allowing the press there until they get written consent for the presence of the press on the tarmac from the families . If the families don't give permission then they stay away. If the families say OK, then they are allowed. I don't think the government or the press should be the ones making the decision here. The default position of the government needs to respect the dead first.

[Guest Warwick Green]

My personal viewpoint is that the default policy should be not allowing the press there until they get written consent for the presence of the press on the tarmac from the families . If the families don't give permission then they stay away. If the families say OK, then they are allowed. I don't think the government or the press should be the ones making the decision here. The default position of the government needs to respect the dead first.

And Harper is now forced into the final refrain of all politicians caught on a sticky wicket, "That's been my position all along".

[geoffrey]

I'll look at it from a typical leftist concept, why does society make people like this?

Why do people watch the bodies come off the planes? What thrill/entertainment/fulfillment do people get from this?

Personally, I don't need to watch every moment of a person coming back from Afghanistan to appreciate their sacrifice and pray for them... watching the body come off a plane of TV seems kind of voyeristic.

Then again, that's the nature of our blood thirsty society.

[Hicksey]

My personal viewpoint is that the default policy should be not allowing the press there until they get written consent for the presence of the press on the tarmac from the families . If the families don't give permission then they stay away. If the families say OK, then they are allowed. I don't think the government or the press should be the ones making the decision here. The default position of the government needs to respect the dead first.

And Harper is now forced into the final refrain of all politicians caught on a sticky wicket, "That's been my position all along".

He's no pillar of righteousness, but he's still squeaky clean compared to the Liberals' last 13 years in office.

[Nocrap]

My personal viewpoint is that the default policy should be not allowing the press there until they get written consent for the presence of the press on the tarmac from the families . If the families don't give permission then they stay away. If the families say OK, then they are allowed. I don't think the government or the press should be the ones making the decision here. The default position of the government needs to respect the dead first.

And Harper is now forced into the final refrain of all politicians caught on a sticky wicket, "That's been my position all along".

He's no pillar of righteousness, but he's still squeaky clean compared to the Liberals' last 13 years in office.

Oh my Gawd. 13 Years??? AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PAST LIBERAL CONDUCT. Harper is not leader of the opposition now, he is supposedly the leader of our country. He made a bad decision. He must admit that he made a decision and not lie to cover it up.

Families are not being asked before hand anything other than to show support for 'the mission'.

Canadians do not wish to view the caskets for 'excitement', but an opportunity to show respect. If we speak out agasinst the war we are accused of turning our backs on Canadian soldiers, but if we want to mark the solemn occasion of their deaths by saying goodbye with a tear and a salute, we are thrill seekers.

Why even drape the coffin in a flag at all, if not to draw attention to the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Whether we support the mission or not, the person inside that coffin died for their country. It is not a time for politics.

[Guest Warwick Green]

Canadians do not wish to view the caskets for 'excitement', but an opportunity to show respect. If we speak out agasinst the war we are accused of turning our backs on Canadian soldiers, but if we want to mark the solemn occasion of their deaths by saying goodbye with a tear and a salute, we are thrill seekers.

Why even drape the coffin in a flag at all, if not to draw attention to the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Whether we support the mission or not, the person inside that coffin died for their country. It is not a time for politics.

I would suggest that once the soldier has been killed the issue is solely one for the family to decide, not the politicians. And let them have the decision - Harper now claims that this has been his position all along.

[margrace]

I have no need to watch that either, I don't watch the funerals and see only the little bit on the news. But the whole point of this was freedom of the press I believe.

The father made a very good point and if we like the Americans let our freedoms slip away one at a time our grandchildren will curse us.

[fixer1]

I have to agree with Harper on this, that it is up to the families to agree. if there are more then one when the soldiers coffins arrive back, any one family that says not to the press being there, and that would be that. If the families want the press to be there they can do it at their own services or on the tarmack only if all involved agree. This is not a big issue as far as I am concerned, and it really should have nothing to do with the government at all. The families should be asked their wishes and it is those that should be carried out. The new media has no rights period in any of this and it is their own self centered mindset that is to blame for all the controversey in the first place.

[Hicksey]

My personal viewpoint is that the default policy should be not allowing the press there until they get written consent for the presence of the press on the tarmac from the families . If the families don't give permission then they stay away. If the families say OK, then they are allowed. I don't think the government or the press should be the ones making the decision here. The default position of the government needs to respect the dead first.

And Harper is now forced into the final refrain of all politicians caught on a sticky wicket, "That's been my position all along".

He's no pillar of righteousness, but he's still squeaky clean compared to the Liberals' last 13 years in office.

Oh my Gawd. 13 Years??? AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PAST LIBERAL CONDUCT. Harper is not leader of the opposition now, he is supposedly the leader of our country. He made a bad decision. He must admit that he made a decision and not lie to cover it up.

Families are not being asked before hand anything other than to show support for 'the mission'.

Canadians do not wish to view the caskets for 'excitement', but an opportunity to show respect. If we speak out agasinst the war we are accused of turning our backs on Canadian soldiers, but if we want to mark the solemn occasion of their deaths by saying goodbye with a tear and a salute, we are thrill seekers.

Why even drape the coffin in a flag at all, if not to draw attention to the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Whether we support the mission or not, the person inside that coffin died for their country. It is not a time for politics.

Read above. Where did I ever say it was about the Liberals' past performances? All I said is that even with this mistake he still looks lily white compared to the last 13 years of Liberals rule.

If you read the thread you would know that I want neither the government nor the media making these decisions as neither are trustworthy to make them. My position on this has been that respect for the dead should be default policy with families deciding whether or not to let the press onto the tarmac.

Yes, Harper his backpeddling and trying to take the politically expedient road, but the media is fighting for something that shouldn't be their decision to make. If the families want to make the caskets of their dead sons and daughters accessible to the media they should make that decision themselves.

THE DEFAULT POLICY SHOULD ALWAYS BE RESPECT FOR THE DEAD. If those who manage their estate wish to choose to make their remains available to the press, then let them. A government that sends soldiers off to possibly die for their country should never play politics with their bodies and should guard against the media doing so as well. If the families wish to, that is their right. I don't believe that someome that benefits from their decision (politically or monetarily) on the issue should be allowed to make this decision

[Argus]

Canadians do not wish to view the caskets for 'excitement', but an opportunity to show respect. If we speak out agasinst the war we are accused of turning our backs on Canadian soldiers, but if we want to mark the solemn occasion of their deaths by saying goodbye with a tear and a salute, we are thrill seekers.

Why even drape the coffin in a flag at all, if not to draw attention to the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Whether we support the mission or not, the person inside that coffin died for their country. It is not a time for politics.

There is a difference between wanting to draw attention to the "ultimate sacrifice" in order to show respect to the soldier who made that sacrifice, and wanting to draw attention to it in order to jump up and down shouting "See!? See!? I told you! Look! Dead body! Dead! Dead! Isn't it horrible! Isn't it shocking! Isn't it sad! Look! I' was right! War is bad! We shouldn't be there! Look at the little sad children! See?! See!?"

And those in the media and those like yourself are in that latter pack, with, I suspect, little or no respect for soldiers of any kind, dead or alive, but a determiniation to use every death to further anti-war political views.

[geoffrey]

Plus the pictures of our brave men and women in coffins sell alot of papers!! Of course the media wants to be able to get some nice close up pictures!! The closer they get to the coffin, the more papers they sell!!

I love the media!!

[BubberMiley]

Do you buy papers to see pictures of coffins? I'm not sure it's as marketable as you claim.

[geoffrey]

Do you buy papers to see pictures of coffins? I'm not sure it's as marketable as you claim.

Well I don't buy papers firstly, but remember that when you've got one paper with a story without pictures and one with pictures, you'll take the one with pictures.

These images are all about money at the newstand, seeing a coffin come out of a plane shouldn't change how your mourn/remember/consider any of our war dead.

It's unneccessary and barbaric.

Though I guess we could consider it was only a few hundred years ago we used to parade the dead around town... I must have set my bar for humanity too high.

[BubberMiley]

How about open-casket funerals? Are they unnecessary and barbaric? How about funerals in general?

I think, if you are having people die for your country, any amount of attention they get is never too much. You may question the motives of why the media would choose to acknowledge their sacrifice, but so long as that coverage is respectful, it's a positive.

You may think it panders to our rubbernecking instincts, but they're just coffins draped in flags, not body parts in a town square. Ignoring them would be (and is) much worse.