The Iranian Letter

[rogue state]

our great and wise President is right, after all.

There are so many destitute and homeless people, here in Canada, much many than in my home country, only because the rich don't want to share with them.

Mahmoud Ghalehnoii

[Black Dog]

"No connection with reality". Are you saying that he isn't a Holocaust denier, and that he hasn't threatened to nuke Israel given the chance? I mean, I know you're no fan of Israel, but do you really think nuking the place is appropriate?

Except Ahmadinejad has neve rmade reference to nuking Israel. He has said (depending ont the translation) that the Zionist regim emust be wiped out or the occupation of jerusalem must end. But nowhere does he make reference to how he plans to acheive hese rather lofty goals. Indeed, that kind of rhetoric is failry commonplace in the region. In light of all the other factors (political and military) those threats are not enough for me to consider Iran a threat.

The second part is pretty funny, coming from you. Shady didn't mention the Anchluss of Czecheslovakia at all, only that both Mein Kampf and this letter were written with a similar degree of literacy. By juxtaposing the two works there is the implied notion that Hitler and Ahmadinejad have a similar notion of how Jews should be dealt with, but that isn't stated explicitly in Shady's post (even if it's true).

Shady makes it clear, by comparing the letter to Mein Kampf and people who don't beleive Iran is a serious threat to Chamberlain, that he thinks Ahmadinejad is as big a threat as Hitler. Which is just laughable.

But wait - aren't you the guy who's defended the "Bush = Hitler" comparison ad nauseum? Meaning, I guess, that a pathetically weak and endlessly debunkable howler from the fringe carries more weight with you than a legitimate comparison of two men whose stated goals vis-a-vis the eradication of an entire race are practically identical. That's interesting, but not really unexpected.

We argued in an early thread about "taking sides" and you argued that there weren't any sides to take. But when you support the notions that "Bush equals Hitler" and that "Ahmadinejad does not equal Hitler" you really are painting yourself into one half of the house. And it's clearly not the half of the house that I'm in.

Nope. I don't believe I've ever made or defended such a comparison. I have talked about how I think the U.S. is taking on some very fascist overtones, but I've read too much to give the Bush-Hitler comparison much credence. You'll have to find another straw man.

[Montgomery Burns]

The letter from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to Bush was an invitation to Islam. Indeed, Ahmadinejad admitted this a few days ago:

Jakarta, May 11, IRNA -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said here Thursday that his letter to President George W. Bush did not concern the nuclear dossier, but rather was an invitation to Islam and the prophets culture.

It also might be a prelude to another attack against the USA.

Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them….If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29] [dhimmitude--MB]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294)

Link

[KrustyKidd]

I have talked about how I think the U.S. is taking on some very fascist overtones, but I've read too much to give the Bush-Hitler comparison much credence. You'll have to find another straw man.

You can cry wolf only so many times before the people get desensitized. Then when the real thing comes, they respond not with thought but with pitchforks and fire. You say fascist overtones, many say common sense.

I prefer a bit of the common sense to the overreactin that would occur if there is another 911. Then, facist overtones will seem calm and sensible compared to the mindless backlash that may occur.

An enraged America under the control of hatred is something I do not wish to be in the same generation with. If that takes some temporary wire taps and strange alliances to guard against, then so be it.

[theloniusfleabag]

Montgomery Burns,

The letter from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to Bush was an invitation to Islam. Indeed, Ahmadinejad admitted this a few days ago:

QUOTE

Jakarta, May 11, IRNA -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said here Thursday that his letter to President George W. Bush did not concern the nuclear dossier, but rather was an invitation to Islam and the prophets culture.

It also might be a prelude to another attack against the USA.

Looks like Mr. Ahmadinejad is covering his 'religiously legal' butt with this 'invitation', as Osama did before 9/11. It may or may not preclude an intent to strike, but as an open-ended offer, he won't have to do it again later if that is his intent. He could attempt to initiate any sort of hostility in the future and still be 'holy' since he, at one time, jumped through this dogmatic hoop.

As Sun Tzu said in "The Art of War",

"Those who come seeking peace without a treaty are plotting."

[Black Dog]

You can cry wolf only so many times before the people get desensitized. Then when the real thing comes, they respond not with thought but with pitchforks and fire. You say fascist overtones, many say common sense.

I'm not talking only about the "war on terror" and it's effects (though that is part of it) but a deep and abiding streak of militaristic authoritarianism that permeates American society.

[KrustyKidd]

I'm not talking only about the "war on terror" and it's effects (though that is part of it) but a deep and abiding streak of militaristic authoritarianism that permeates American society.

Oh yes, I certainly agree Black Dog. I also think that if they didn't have that, the world would be run by some pretty unsavory regimes and dictators. Far worse than what we have today.

My point was that if another 911 occurs anywhere in the western world, the 'militaristic authoritarianism that permeates American society' today will seem quite tame compared to what follows.

[Black Dog]

Oh yes, I certainly agree Black Dog. I also think that if they didn't have that, the world would be run by some pretty unsavory regimes and dictators. Far worse than what we have today.

I dunno. I would hope it's possible to be right and not so...creepy.

My point was that if another 911 occurs anywhere in the western world, the 'militaristic authoritarianism that permeates American society' today will seem quite tame compared to what follows.

Correction: if another 9-11 occurs in the United States, then the sh*t will hit the fan. I don't think Americans care too much if 3,000 foreigners bite the dust.

[KrustyKidd]

Correction: if another 9-11 occurs in the United States, then the sh*t will hit the fan. I don't think Americans care too much if 3,000 foreigners bite the dust.

No. If another 911 occured say in France, it would legitimize a right wing backlash to some degree. If it were done with a dirty bomb or WMD material it would ensure a worldwide change to the right.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear KrustyKidd,

No. If another 911 occured say in France, it would legitimize a right wing backlash to some degree.

Not by the US, they would giggle and say France had it coming. It would have to be the UK, Canada or possibly Australia and/or some US interest like the Phillipines to make the US scream 'atrocity'.

[KrustyKidd]

Not by the US, they would giggle and say France had it coming.

Who would? The US people? The President? When people see horror they are humanistic and feel sorrow for the victims. The US does not laugh when Palestinian children are killed in colateral damage nor do they feel humor when an Iraq marketplace gets bombed. Nor did they think Gadaffis kid getting killed was a front page cartoon so where and what are you basing this rationale on? Besides, the reality of the fact that the west was involved in a broader war would be further driven home by an action such as what I speak.