Are kids kids anymore?

[geoffrey]

Reading an article from the National Post, I became really distrubed at a growing trend here in Canada. Now I'm relatively young, one of those crazy university students, but even I found this shocking, as this wasn't going on when I was kid. Apparently, 12 year old kids are hanging out at these all-ages late night dance clubs.

Article found here: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/st...ca1&k=85800&p=1

It's Saturday night, and as one group of 12-year-old girls prepares to head out for a night at an all-ages dance in Toronto's nightclub core, another group of preteens is busy fussing over their expensive gowns and shoes and wheedling their parents to arrange a limousine for their Grade 8 graduation.

Only in the complicated realm of modern childhood would such disparate events be on the same trajectory -- both evidence of what is increasingly becoming a sped-up version of childhood.

Statements such as this, point to the cause:

What's particularly interesting, she says, is while childhood seems to be getting more truncated, with kids appearing and behaving older than they are, adolescence seems to be getting longer: Children are beginning puberty at younger ages on one end, and yet remain in post-secondary education and stay in the family home well into their 20s and even beyond.

I think there is a serious lack of interest in children's lives by parents today. This is the daycare generation, and we are seeing the problems caused by it. Actually, it all revolves around the whole responsibility concept, where parents generally just aren't involved anymore. I'm not a parent, but I can sure make the reasonable decision that I wouldn't let my 12 year old be out on the streets late night partying, with alcohol or without. A rational person sees the danger in even having a 16 or 17 year old girl being in a nightclub full of what can be mostly politely descibed as sexual predators.

A recent story in the news discussed a 12 year old girl that had been involved in sex talk with an Edmonton man, over the internet. He was aquitted by the way, as he wasn't trying to 'lure' the girl. No mention was made, however, of why a 12 year old was engaged in sex talk over the internet, and where the hell the parents were during this.

So I have to ask, where have the responsible parents gone? You see these delinquent kids everywhere, junior high students on the c-train talking about how many times they got laid this month and what new drugs they are trying, elementary school kids skipping classes...

Backtracking to the beginning of the article, the author makes an interest statement that outlines by thoughts in this post:

In the week that has followed an altercation involving a 12-year-old girl stabbed on the streets of Toronto's Entertainment District at 2:30 a.m. last Saturday, there has been an outcry over parental abdication of responsibilities, calls for a strict children's curfew, and considerable hand-wringing about what kind of society allows its children to be out partying at all hours.

The article goes on to mention things like 10 year olds with midnight curfews, grade 8 graduations with limo's and questionable attire for 14 year olds, and Holt Renfrew fashion sessions for kids.

If this is the price we have to pay for progress, I'm out. Maybe I'm just a wacko home-raised country-boy that doesn't understand this city life, but honestly, I hope others see a disturbing trend in both the attitudes and actions of our kids.

When will parents step up and take responsibility for their 12-year old night clubbing children? When will society stand up and say enough is enough?

[sideshow]

Traditional Canadian values? Who can we blame but ourselves?

[RB]

I was horrified when my kid said about a month ago that she had tickets to see Panic at the Disco at The Docks. The Docks is a nightclub also. But, I went along with the kids to the concert. It was suppose to be this "underground" band and hard to come by tickets, oh the pressure for kids.

Anyway, I like to hang out with my kid and her friends, and I do take them out and around. Plus, it helps when the kids also want you to be around them.

I say to my kid if you would like to go somewhere, her dad and I need to know, if I can afford it, and we agree, the rule is an adult tags along - sorry, the kid is still a child. I don't hear of complains from her or the friends.

Friday nights are movie nights for the lot of kids and a parent is always around, and we have fun Saturday in Karaoke twice a month which everyone looks forward for besides other things stuff for the kids, none of it includes clubs - the kids have a dance mat that turns out to be much more exercising than anything, and the poor darlings walk around with air mattresses hoping it turns out to be a sleepover.

I think the kids are influence much more by what is on TV, the music targeting kids, markets targeting kids, and sexy clothes make for kids etc. I mean the girls are not even thinking boyfriend but buying sexy clothes and sex bracelets. Apparently there are these color bracelets and identifiable pink for kiss, lap dance, blowjob etc. This culture is growing up our kids really fast and parents I feel have a responsibility and need to draw a line on those boundaries.

Yesterday, the TV news showed the police on their high horses patrolling a nightclub in Toronto while the folks dancing inside left little to the imagination with regards to sex. Well, least to say I was shocked and still have not recovered as to what really goes on in the nightclubs.

I think morals of the world has decayed, and it does not help when the parents themselves are unstable, greater than 45% of them separated or divorce by the time the kid reaches tweenage includes myself. Plus the guilty conscience parents are incline to give-in to the kids, give them money, no direction and resources in abundance, and let the kid be.

Every parent wishes their child to have what they were denied as a child.

I wish commonsense to prevail when it comes to kids.

I find kids like guidance, schedules, routine and rules, discipline, and they misbehave and rebel if they are neglected.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear RB,

An excellent post. I agree 100%. I applaud your sense of responsibility, and belive that you are passing along something very valuable to the next generation.

This culture is growing up our kids really fast and parents I feel have a responsibility and need to draw a line on those boundaries.

Well said, but sadly, Television ans 'pop culture' have become today's surrogate parents, and they glorify (and instill) the worst set of morals known to man, most of the time.

[Slavik44]

I guess this is a question of wether Guns kill people or if people kill people, I am reminded of an E-mail I was sent over a year ago, of a guy who claimed to have linked a web cam up to his gun, so people could tally how many people it killed. Likewise it is one thing to blame pop culture and telivision it is another to realise that somewhere along the line some level of personal responsibility must enter the picture. After all 12 year olds did not create the environment they now live in, they did not purchase that 52 inch plasma T.V, and they do not have a high level of control over what bombards their Brains 24/7.

I think however their is a problem with Society standing up and saying enough is enough, they generally miss the target, people have been trying to attack culture or the lack there of for years, generally speaking it has not been to succesfull. I often get the impression that when society stands up to do something about these situations it involves finding a scape goat, wether it be Marylin Manson or Grand Theft Auto. In the end it doesn't solve the deeper underlying issues, partly because the deeper underlying issue is what sustains the world we live in--a culture of excessive consumption. We are all chasing after that bigger house, that vacation property, a porsche, and countless assortments of other goods...and I am not trying to speak from some position of enlightment clearly I am guilty of the same. In some ways we are trying so hard, maybe to hard, to achieve economic success but because of this failing to succeed in other areas, and please don't reply and tell me how great the world was in the 1950's the world has always had very serious major moral problems. That Being said when society comes up with a solution to the evil culture problem that is infiltrating our youth they tend to do it in a way that is counter productive. Much like attempting to kill a star fish by cutting it in half, instead of killing the Star Fish you have created two.

Already we have seen people bring up Fashion, grade 8's in Limos, the internet, and an urban myth known as Sex bracclets, these are not causing our problems, but undoubtedly the "collective action of society" will single them out, will disproportionately if not entirely focus on the manifestation of the problem rather then the problem itself and in that case count me out of this collective action, I would rather track Santa Clause using NORAD.

[geoffrey]

It's not excessive consumption Slavik, it's the change in values to a consumption and prestige trumps family system.

Again, to use your example, its a gun's don't kill people argument. I can reduce it further.

Family needs to be priority one, once you've got that responsibility squared away, then you can chase those bigger and better things, always maintaing your responsibility at home first.

My thoughts on the matter.

[margrace]

There are two things running our world TV and consumption. Both the producers of our television and the CEOS of our international companies are to blame for what is going on. Money is the only thing important in this world today and our children are suffering. A parent has little control over their kids when peer presure, promoted by the money moguls, runs the world.

[southerncomfort]

There are two things running our world TV and consumption. Both the producers of our television and the CEOS of our international companies are to blame for what is going on. Money is the only thing important in this world today and our children are suffering. A parent has little control over their kids when peer presure, promoted by the money moguls, runs the world.

Huh ! run that by me again. Producers a bit, but CEO's ? Peer pressure promoted by the money moguls? Money moguls promote peer pressure??

Oh right its those durned capitalists again forgot that one. Parents do have control over the kids, they can control what they watch at home they can teach moral values at home. Sure they cannot control everything but a decent grounding at home sure helps. Don't blame it all on those nasty capitalists again.

Sounds like sour grapes to me, aren't you the one on 50plus who doesn't think retirees with a bit more than you should go south in the winter?

[uOttawaMan]

tt's only as bad as you let it get.

The parents are to blem through and through for these types of things.

[fryingpan]

Probably not (in response to "are kids kids anymore?"). Parents today give their kids far more things than they had when they were growing up. Teenagers 50 years ago who had part time jobs were expected to contribute to the bills and pay their share. Now teenagers today are getting jobs just for spending money. They don't contribute to family bills (unless spending money on a new pair of jeans counts), and they don't save for university/college, because their parents will. And if their parents are unable to afford it, the government will force the taxpayers to pay.

Another part of the problem is that parents nowadays are too stressed and can't be bothered to watch their kids anymore. They are more concerned with themselves and their jobs then they are with their kids.

[Slavik44]

It's not excessive consumption Slavik, it's the change in values to a consumption and prestige trumps family system.

Again, to use your example, its a gun's don't kill people argument. I can reduce it further.

Family needs to be priority one, once you've got that responsibility squared away, then you can chase those bigger and better things, always maintaing your responsibility at home first.

My thoughts on the matter.

I agree but I disagree, the fact is the problem is rooted in the effects of culture madly consumed with consumption, that is what I would call excessive consumption. When being able to drive a Porsche 911 Turbo S over a BMW M3 takes priority over spending time with your kids or some level of involvement in your kids lives, then I would deem that to be an excessive pursuance of consumption...that would be the problem. However all to often this becomes the So-Cons excuse to bring up "traditional Values" how way back when it was better, the people were better, the moral standards were higher...but that simply is not the case, and I frown on having people turn this into a back in my day post, it reminds me of a used car sales men who describes a 1980's oldsmobile as like new and runs great I am not interested in hearign a sales pitch about the 1950's. But that is what I am starting to hear, how kids don't pay for university, how they do not contribute at all to the household and how teenagers 50 years ago were so great. And that is the problem with societies Collective action it is tainted with Nostalgia and a desire to go backwards to the morals of the past, this is done inc omplete and utter disregard for the many of the rights and freedoms people had to fight for given the morals of the times.

Unfortunately solving this problem has nothing to do with Legislating Morals, if only it was that easy. In my economics text book there is a cartoon of a communist leader who finds out his people are not happy so he decides to pass legislation that says smiling is now mandatory.... Having what I woudl call a different outlook on life doesn't come meerely from the government saying, "do this." The fact is no major party is truly interested in changing the root problem.

All our major parties, wether left wing or right wing are concerned with maintaining a healthy Economy, no one can come to power, put people out of work and expect to maintain this power come election time. But that is what giving people more time/cutting consumption requires. People to work less, people to produce less, people to earn less and generally speaking it would probabley result in an increasing Price level. That is not a formula for wining an election, unless we start selling soem major alcohol come election day. Unofrtunately parties tend to look at popular but misleading ways to "help" the public. Most of them however result in higher Consumption.

In the case of the right wing they use "Morals" and "Hard Work" and cutting taxes to encourage people to work that extra hour. They play right along with the Idea of increasing your consumption to solve a problem that I feel is primarily caused by excessive consumption. The left of course uses Social programs, take day care for example...does that solve the underlieing issue of excessive consumption or does it allow another parent to work full time so the family can consume more? Even the Conservatives bought into this by giving people money...promotign consumption, wether it is of Beer and Popcorn I do not know. Beyond that the media and big CEO's have been more then happy to go along with these solutions, because for them even the worst Social Program is better than a parent who doesn't buy $120 jeans for their todler.

I think all we have to do is look at ourselves, who here has not argued agaisnt cutting consumption at some point? The biggest problem with Kyoto--it theoretically requires us to cut consumption. Why do we lower taxes? So we can consume more? Why don't you vote for the NDP, they will destroy the economy...we wont be able to consume as much. We live in a society with fat people, not only fat as in they consume to much food, but fat as in the material sense. And really I don't see anyone suggesting we change this, I wonder if it is even possible and given this I am not about to jump on a bandwagon going the wrong way down a one way street.

[piercj2]

I agree with most of the major ideas in these posts, and think that Slavic 44 is really accurate in what he is saying, it just is a little general. Consumption does motivate our society extremely too much, especiallly amongst adults, and that is leading to adults putting their personal needs and desires before thier kids. This is primarily casued by the need to consume and compete in how one looks, or how someone perceives them to look regarding money, prestige, physical attractiveness, ect. This post was talking about Canada origianally, but the problem is worse in U.S probabably. The fact is, people now days are driven to compete- schools are more competitive, finding a partner is more competive, for gods sake, just getting respected is competitive. Obviously this drives and stresses our every day lives, and sometimes over-welms who we really are. I am not tying to sound like a philosopher, but I beleive at the core of most human hearts is the need to love and be loved, and to respect others and be respected. These basic human needs have become so clouded in personal judgements, body image and other shallow and unfulfillling ideas that it makes it hard to be satisfied with ones self. We should place our value of eachother, and of ourselves on how we treat our family, freinds, and peers. To put it simply, we as people should respect eachother's hearts more than the house, car, clothing or other body image that we desire.

[GostHacked]

RB and uOttawaman

Agreed. Parents need to take more responsibility for their children. They always want to blame something else for their shortcommings as a parent. 'Well I cannot correct my child for this so it must be someone else's fault' WRONG.

The way to protect your child is to get involved with them every day, not only are you the parent, you are the friend, and their advisor. The more you get involved with your kid's daily activities, the more that kid will respect you and look up to you.

[Canuck E Stan]

RB and uOttawaman

Agreed. Parents need to take more responsibility for their children. They always want to blame something else for their shortcommings as a parent. 'Well I cannot correct my child for this so it must be someone else's fault' WRONG.

The way to protect your child is to get involved with them every day, not only are you the parent, you are the friend, and their advisor. The more you get involved with your kid's daily activities, the more that kid will respect you and look up to you.

That's a good part of it,but not all.As a parent of 4 teenagers life isn't too bad with my bunch.Why?

1.No cable T.V.

2.No allowances,you want,you earn- and I don't mean household chores-those are to be done because you live in this house.You want to buy,get a job.

3.I want to know where you are and with who.Your friends are always welcome at this house and overnight.Better it happens under your own roof.

4.We are not church goers,but morals and fairness are expected as a personal value from everyone in this home.

5.Siblings are more important than friends and should be treated as such when help or rescue is required.

6.Communications on a daily basis is a must.I want to know what you are doing and I CARE about it,so ask me when there is a problem,maybe I can help or offer some advice.

7.Interact,go to the game they play,see their projects,help them with their needs in school,respect their choices.

8.Love your spouse and your kids will love you both.

9.Love them,you made them, they're yours for life.

[Drea]

Congratulations Canuck E Stan.

Raising teenagers is the most difficult part of being a parent and you are doing all the right things.

We have a 12 year old and my biggest concern is that we "lose him" to his peers in the next year or so.

We are raising him much the way you are raising your children, except for the siblings part - he's an only child. Not spoiled though! He earns money doing a paperroute and we do pay him for extra chores around the home. Not the daily stuff like dishes and making the bed, those are just part of life. He also joined Air Cadets last year and is really enjoying it.

We have dinner together every evening and spend tons of time discussing his schoolwork, Cadets, his hope and dreams, etc.

The most important thing parents can do is listen, set guidelines and rules and, above all, love the child and each other - like you said

[ClearWest]

This is an example of government policy affecting huge societal changes. Public schools. Parents aren't raising their children anymore. They're given an education rather than an upbringing. Of course, the media has a huge impact as well--but it's primarily the parent's responsibility to monitor what their children watch, and to teach them what behaviour is expected of them.

[geoffrey]

It's needless to say that the parents are completely responsible for the actions of their 12 year old children at the end of the day. When kids are found in such situations, the parents should be heavily fined and given classes on how to raise the beasties.

[fryingpan]

RB and uOttawaman

Agreed. Parents need to take more responsibility for their children. They always want to blame something else for their shortcommings as a parent. 'Well I cannot correct my child for this so it must be someone else's fault' WRONG.

The way to protect your child is to get involved with them every day, not only are you the parent, you are the friend, and their advisor. The more you get involved with your kid's daily activities, the more that kid will respect you and look up to you.

That's a good part of it,but not all.As a parent of 4 teenagers life isn't too bad with my bunch.Why?

1.No cable T.V.

2.No allowances,you want,you earn- and I don't mean household chores-those are to be done because you live in this house.You want to buy,get a job.

3.I want to know where you are and with who.Your friends are always welcome at this house and overnight.Better it happens under your own roof.

4.We are not church goers,but morals and fairness are expected as a personal value from everyone in this home.

5.Siblings are more important than friends and should be treated as such when help or rescue is required.

6.Communications on a daily basis is a must.I want to know what you are doing and I CARE about it,so ask me when there is a problem,maybe I can help or offer some advice.

7.Interact,go to the game they play,see their projects,help them with their needs in school,respect their choices.

8.Love your spouse and your kids will love you both.

9.Love them,you made them, they're yours for life.

Wow, we need more parents like you. Most parents I know are either never paying attention to their kids or paying the wrong kind of attention to them.