Crusading Is Noble

[Craig Read]

For all the pontificating ninnies who whine about 'root causes' and ask such deep penetrating questions about 'why do they hate us' here is an answer.

They hate us because they failed. It is called 'penis envy' in psychological terms.

The 'root cause' of terror comes from 2 areas: 1. Saudi Arabia - an artificial creation now run by the Saud family. This country must be dismembered. Here runs the monied and Wahabbi roots of fundamentalist Islam. 2. Fascistic despotic regimes that infuse Islam with a vengeful national socialism that is directed not at the failed internal state, but to the Great Satan.

If we want to stop terrorism the plan is rather plain. There will be an American 'light' empire from Cairo to Kabul.

Anyone care to join ?

[SirRiff]

uh no....let us know how saudi arabia is when you paradrop over there...

SirRiff

[FastNed]

Yes, there is an historic tragedy which must be corrected. The Hashemite Kings are the true Guardians of Islam and this illegal Saudi occupation of Islamic Holy Sites must be ended.

[SirRiff]

Native Americans will be thrilled to hear that.

[Craig Read]

S.A. is a US creation and must go. Either the regime is replaced or the country needs to be dismembered.

SA is the mainspring of funding for the Islamic Jihad. Iraq was a menace, but SA is a close #2.

Iran will be #3.

Bring on the crusades, the only impediment would be the Western liberal media with their hysterical revisioning and casting of Islam as a 'noble and peaceful philosophy.'

Hooey.

If Islam is peaceful than Hitler was a kind hearted man who loved minorities.

[SirRiff]

who is actually going to do all this crusading?

Iraq has shown ever the strongest nation on earth cant do it alone, the cost is $4 billion/month, even thier own studies show they cant maintain troops levels there safely, and their own citizens have no patience for long term sacrifice. middle class citizens want their house, their job, and thier family safe.

the coming hardships of iraq will turn off american citizens and politicians off just like vietnam did.

the third world will go to hell and bring us all down.

SirRiff

[Nuclear]

Sign me up, Mr. Read. I'm all game. I can solve the Iraq problem too. Just give me a tank and a lot of bullets. There will be no more terror attacks against our troops who are there trying to help these people!

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr Read,

I must agree with most of your post that Saudia Arabia is one of they core issues to the middle east problem.(and I thought you hated root causes!) However, how does one explain that Osama Bin Laden hates it and the US gov't loves it? It has to do with what one worships.

Bun Laden hates it because he feels the Saud family despoils 'the land of the two holy places' (he refuses to acknowledge the name 'Saudi Arabia') by selling out to the US and others. The US feels it is a great place to profit, because they worship Mammon, but it is despoiled by Islam.

I think the time draws nigh when Islam will be confronted, but it need not be 'nukes first', understanding later'.

One day the world will be rid of religious tyranny, and it is up to all of us to ensure that such a notion does not mean to be also 'rid of existence'.

[nova_satori]

Craig Read: So, all of this hate is independet of America? lol....

[Craig Read]

The US has withdrawn its troops from SA - one of the reasons why Iraq was invaded.

So what is Bin 'I need to get' Laiden's excuse now ?

Oh let me see, Andalusia 1492 or maybe Saladin 1183 or perhaps Vienna 1683, or Palestine 2003, or is it when he was rejected by a Jewish babe who laughed at his penis size in 1978 in Tel Aviv ?

Militant Islam is the enemy, they are destroying people and assets the world over. I don't buy into the Islam-is-peaceful concept. Little proof exists that an ideology which fuses state and church together and which is ruled by power hungry hypocrites preaching blood and sword is peaceful.

In any event the outcome is certain, the only difference is how long and at what cost.

[nova_satori]

"proof exists that an ideology which fuses state and church together and which is ruled by power hungry hypocrites preaching blood and sword is peaceful"

Um, Iraq was more or less a secular state, if you haven't noticed (hint, DON'T WATCH US News networks)

Iran follows that description, well the leaders do. The youth want a secular democracy. yet the Us doesn't free them? (perhaps because they have less oil?) lol.

Have you even READ part of the Koran? It seems all you know about Islam is what Fox news tells you. (yes, because that source is not at all, in ANY way Biased!)

If you can't tell, i'm mocking you.

Every religion, except for Buddist and Daoism, has commited atrocties. Every religion except for those who, is violent. Don't give me that crap that Isam isn't peacefully. I bet the religion you follow is/was violent.

Islam has the burden of being the violent religion for the time. Christianity had it's time. Judisam as well. Catholcism too.

America will fall before Islam does. That is for sure. She will waste her resources, lives, allies, and dignity fighting a war that can never be won through violence.

[Craig Read]

Well you don't know much either about religion or geo-political affairs.

Hussein made weekly speeches calling on the Arab brotherhood to unite and drive the Jew into the sea and demolish Israel. He was secular until he needed religion to help his means. The Baathists are Fascists, religion is embedded in the state and the leader, and if the leader can use a religion or philosophy to further his means he will. Hussein used the concept of Pan Arabism and pan Islamism to justify terror against the West and Israel.

So much for your understanding of Iraq.

It might come as a surprise to find out that the Islamic world is poor partly due to a lack of Constitutional freedoms and rights and separation of powers. As well not having a strong church and middle class will doom a country to exploitation by demagogues.

Canada should keep this in mind as unelected judges tell us that sodomising psychological disturbed men wearing nail polish can start a family. Can't wait to see how the kids grow up.

[evilpeachblossom]

Mr. Read--

You make me shudder. You should feel proud to live in a country where everyone can express their love for whomever they choose. I know I'm ashamed by the fact that George Bush is trying to stop gay marriages. Gay men are not psychologically disturbed. Well, I'm sure some are, but there are men like that of the straight variety as well. Your implication that a gay couple can't raise kids in the same manner as a straight couple is sickening. Gay couples can provide, love, and care for their children just as well as straight couples.

As to your original comments on this topic, I would not refer to this situation as "penis envy." I think it is a question of the way Americans choose to live their lives, caring too much about material possessions, and then there's that whole pork eating bit...Anyway, I think your statements at the beginning were totally ridiculous.

[Black Dog]

Hussein made weekly speeches calling on the Arab brotherhood to unite and drive the Jew into the sea and demolish Israel. He was secular until he needed religion to help his means. The Baathists are Fascists, religion is embedded in the state and the leader, and if the leader can use a religion or philosophy to further his means he will. Hussein used the concept of Pan Arabism and pan Islamism to justify terror against the West and Israel.

So you acknowledge that Hussein cynically invoked the name of Islam merely to suit his own needs, then. Hardly a searing indictment of the religion in and of itself.

Canada should keep this in mind as unelected judges tell us that sodomising psychological disturbed men wearing nail polish can start a family. Can't wait to see how the kids grow up.

Can't see what this has to do with the topic at hand, but it's always nice when ignorami spout self-incriminating idiocy such as this.

[nova_satori]

Hussein made weekly speeches calling on the Arab brotherhood to unite and drive the Jew into the sea and demolish Israel. He was secular until he needed religion to help his means. The Baathists are Fascists, religion is embedded in the state and the leader, and if the leader can use a religion or philosophy to further his means he will. Hussein used the concept of Pan Arabism and pan Islamism to justify terror against the West and Israel.

So? Bush made comments refering to Christanity. Does that mean everything Bush does reflects on Christanity?

LOL: Just TRY answer that without making yourself look foolish.

It might come as a surprise to find out that the Islamic world is poor partly due to a lack of Constitutional freedoms and rights and separation of powers. As well not having a strong church and middle class will doom a country to exploitation by demagogues.

It may come as a suprise to find out that the Islamic world was flourishing when the rest of the world was in the dark ages. The Islamic world was hundreds of years ahead of the West. The Islamic world have inventions that the rest of the world had to either trade for or steal.

Canada should keep this in mind as unelected judges tell us that sodomising psychological disturbed men wearing nail polish can start a family. Can't wait to see how the kids grow up.

They will come out normally. Children living in a "family" where both parents are the same sex come out fine, well according to a Time magazine last year. Also, science is leaning towards that gay males are genetically prediscrbied that way. You don't simply choose. Homosexuality has existed since the Ancient Greeks. (sappho anyone? Homosexual relations between a older man and a pre-adult male?) There it was seen as normal for men to do such. During the Renissaince it was essentially the same for males, as long as they were not the same age.

[Craig Read]

Islam is a failure.

Islam was once rich because it appropriated trade routes.

It set up a bureaucratic empire that eventually destroyed the system and itself and culminated in the Ottoman empire - the sick man of Europe - that was kept tottering because the British needed a buffer against the Russian empire.

Christianity is more open to debate, interpretations and 'story telling' than monolithic Islam. Christian societies have 2 useful buffers against the State - the middle class and the church.

Islam has none.

55 % of young Arabs want to leave their country.

60 % of women are illiterate.

The GDP of the entire Arab world is less than Spain.

It is a failure.

In order to restore human dignity it is necessary to rebuild over the next 2 generations these broken societies.

And take away the veil of ignorance.

[Hugo]

Also, science is leaning towards that gay males are genetically prediscrbied that way.

We just finished a very long thread in which it was established that that was not the case. We had input from a geneticist in this forum as well as many expert opinions from outside. I suggest you read it.

They will come out normally. Children living in a "family" where both parents are the same sex come out fine,

If you truly believed in the equality of homosexuals, you wouldn't even care. The fact that you have concerned yourself with that question just confirms that, deep down, you have a problem with homosexuality.

Not to get off-topic or anything.

[nova_satori]

While you're bashing a religion you barely understand, chew on this, how did Christanity produce HITLER?

[nova_satori]

i have the problem? how about your right winged nuts case, Mr. Read?

Let me quote him

Canada should keep this in mind as unelected judges tell us that sodomising psychological disturbed men wearing nail polish can start a family. Can't wait to see how the kids grow up.

Now, who has the problem? The one who accepts them? or the one who calls them "psychological disturbed men?"

[Hugo]

Christianity produced Hitler? Have you read Mein Kampf?

[KrustyKidd]

Hi Nova. I think you are a smart young firecracker and well worth debating with. Please don't take me wrong for pulling two quotes from the recent past, they just seem so relevent. In the second quote I capped the key words.

It may come as a suprise to find out that the Islamic world was flourishing when the rest of the world was in the dark ages. The Islamic world was hundreds of years ahead of the West. The Islamic world have inventions that the rest of the world had to either trade for or steal.

  Every religion, except for Buddist and Daoism, has commited atrocties. Every religion except for those who, is violent. Don't give me that crap that Isam isn't peacefully. I bet the religion you follow is/WAS violent.Islam has the burden of BEING the violent religion

FOR THE TIME. Christianity had it's time. Judisam as well. Catholcism too.

I would imagine that the words and acronisms JIT, Global Village, Instant messaging, up to the second intelligence, shrinking world, biosphere and all are old hat to you so I need not go on with how out of date those quotes are from yesterday. To the point, the relevance of what went on centuries ago is simply meaningless.

We don't have much time us and them. Are you going to pick up a stone and grind wheat chaffs, inject a computor chip into your shoulder or work somewhere inbetween? These people are on the verge of building nuclear weapons with a pre medival mentality and you focus only on our dysfunctionality?

I'm not saying they are wrong. Not saying we are wrong either. What I am saying is that 13th century has to meet the 21st in a hurry. BTW, don't forget what century you live in, when the storm comes (which I hope we can avert) it doesn't differenciate between Infidels.

[nova_satori]

I was simply contrasting a general early history of Islam with that of the technical differences that exist today.

Mr. Read seems to think that Islam is a horrible religion, has caused all the problems taht ever troubled the world, never caused anything good, is full of 1.2 billion fanatics, and should be abolished.

he seems to forget that almost every other religion has done as worse, or worse atrocities. Hmmmm...

besides, Hitler was Christian....so thus, under the right-wing logic, everything hitler does is the same as Christianity? Since you people seem to think that everything bush does is the same as Christanity.

I'm sick of blind faith. I'm sick of American Arrogance. I am sick of American ignorance. I'm sick of America trampling over other countries and cultures. I'm sick of propaganda. I'm sick of people forgetting the past. I'm sick of nationalism. I'm sick of people shooting first, shooting second and shooting third and never asking why they had to shoot. I'm sick of the average American thinking his country is noble. I'm sick of the average American thinking his country is ethical. I'm sick of people who won't question authority. I'm sick of people who will not seek an alternative. I'm sick of people who don't look underneath the fundmental reasons why things happen.

It took 1 1/3 years of watching Americans show their true light and research before I started to have nothing but disgust for the average American.

The average American has no idea of what his country has done in the past. How can you judge other countries when you know nothing of your own?

[KrustyKidd]

I understand your concerns and all are valid. We can do office work and research aplenty at the home base once it calms down. Right now there are men who wish to kill you. As I type they are trying to figure out a way of making you and I die in the most spectacular way possible. If they can blow my daughter's head off on CNN they will rejoice with AK 47s going off in the air. Let's deal with them with a little more punctuality than unearthing the Moses/Muhamed connection.

You and I inherited an earth from people who never knew this stuff would happen. Never knew the wall was going to come down. Never knew or dreamed that people with no ability to drive a car could build a nuclear weapon. Yet here we are faced with it. You want to go on about history? It used to take five thousand years for human knowledge to double, then a hundred years. Now it's not even a year. History? The textbook you study from is possibly a Smithsonian relic.

What's happening is now and to you, same as the 16 year old waitress in the restaurant at the top of the Tower. Maybe she believed in Allah or maybe the God of Hitler but it was the hand of a man who hated America that killed her. The same hand that wants to kill you and I. The US government is trying to save Americans, not Jews, Arabs or whatever. They are reacting to scenarios Hollywood never even dreamed of - people who will do anything to kill you and look, appear, act as if they are one of us. They don't dfferentuate between skin color, religion or occupation, only shock value. They don't try to limit innocent death and they hide amongst people who are fearful of pointing them out.

Nova, they are trying to kill you and I, other than telling us what we are doing is wrong, what should we do? They are here now.

[nova_satori]

See, there is the shoot first, shoot second, shoot third never ask questions.

You can fight all you want, with your attitude, you WILL be fighting until the end.

However, I would like my kids to grow up in a age without terrorism. Without fear. Without everything bad we have now.

Knowing is half the battle.

The best commander knows thyself as well as the enemy.

If knowledge equals power, then the US is the weakest country in the world.

unless we understand why it happened, this war will never end. I don't like endless conflict, do you?

[KrustyKidd]

See, there is the shoot first, shoot second, shoot third never ask questions.

You can fight all you want, with your attitude, you WILL be fighting until the end.

However, I would like my kids to grow up in a age without terrorism. Without fear. Without everything bad we have now.

Knowing is half the battle.

The best commander knows thyself as well as the enemy.

Where is the shoot first mentality? In both Afg and Iraq politics and negotiations with a proved enemy occured. The end is hopefully countries that have with our help thrown off the yoke of oppression and virtual slavery. As for the best commanders and all I would imagine that there is more than one Arab expert at work in the State Department and surely to God there is at least another one in Iraq somewhere.

If knowledge equals power, then the US is the weakest country in the world. 

That comment is dumber than dumb. It implies that you are dumb, that all around you are dumb and I am supposed to take it from a dumb person that everybody else except for people living in a world where they all but allow terrorists to walk and operate amongst them are smart?

unless we understand why it happened, this war will never end. I don't like endless conflict, do you?

We do understand. What part about aid and money and goods and democracy and self rule and protection from terrorists don't you get?