Why are the French so violent?

[geoffrey]

How can allowing an employer give the boot for any reason without any explanation or prior warning to someone for the first 2 years of employment be a good thing for the worker(s)? If this were to happen in Canada, you can bet your asses we would have demonstrations in the streets. What prevents the employer to just sack employees with 2 years - 1 day of service and just hirer new ones? Cheap on demand labour!

Better than extremely high unemployment.

I wouldn't hire people if I knew I was stuck with them forever.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Better than extremely high unemployment.

I wouldn't hire people if I knew I was stuck with them forever.

You're not stuck with them forever?! If someone f##ks up bad then he's gone. This law allows employers to fire without reason(other than their 2 years are almost up)!!! Again this is just a ploy to produce a pool of cheap on demand labour for employers. I can only imagine how badly this will affect productivity.

[fryingpan]

Better than extremely high unemployment.

I wouldn't hire people if I knew I was stuck with them forever.

You're not stuck with them forever?! If someone f##ks up bad then he's gone. This law allows employers to fire without reason(other than their 2 years are almost up)!!! Again this is just a ploy to produce a pool of cheap on demand labour for employers. I can only imagine how badly this will affect productivity.

If you are in a small city with a declining younger population (people going away for school etc...), you would run out of labour if you practiced that policy. Not to mention the employee turnover costs (assuming the positions being filled require some basic skills/education and can't be learned in 10 minutes).

I can picture fast food doing that (since they do it anyway), but if the job requires actual skills/training, it's going to be more expensive.

If I had a choice between unemployment and a job that would last a couple years, I would take the job. When I get tossed out, I could move to a country that isn't so socialist and use the work experience gained to get a better job.

[geoffrey]

I'd keep the workers that I felt deserved their pay. Work hard enough and impress management and you've got nothing to fear.

Lazy workers beware.

[lost&outofcontrol]

I'd keep the workers that I felt deserved their pay. Work hard enough and impress management and you've got nothing to fear.

Lazy workers beware.

Yes, there are over 3 millions lazy workers in France.

[geoffrey]

That is what excess socialism gets ya, 3 million lazy workers.

Nearly as bad as Canada. Don't let the unemployment figures kid you. Only 60% of Newfies in the labour pool even try to work, and of that 60%, 15% still can't 'find' work. Yet we support them endlessly.

Excess social programs create leeches. Maritimers in Canada, these people in France (mostly immigrant minorities).

I never thought anyone would argue that they are entitled to a job, but hey, there is a first for anything. Guess what, work hard enough and they won't fire you. If your not worth your wage, obviously the guy is going to chuck you out, why would I want to pay someone when I'm losing money?

[Black Dog]

I'd keep the workers that I felt deserved their pay. Work hard enough and impress management and you've got nothing to fear.

Lazy workers beware.

Or, more likely since we're talking young, low-skill workers, you'd turf them after their time is up and bring in the next, cheaper batch.

[geoffrey]

I'd keep the workers that I felt deserved their pay. Work hard enough and impress management and you've got nothing to fear.

Lazy workers beware.

Or, more likely since we're talking young, low-skill workers, you'd turf them after their time is up and bring in the next, cheaper batch.

Maybe, if those young cheap low skill workers haven't added any value to themselves, then why do they deserve to be paid more.

Let the business decide who is valuable to them and who isn't. Work hard, you'll get your money and job security.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Take a wild guess what the #1 religion in France is.

Hint: It's not Catholicism.

[Black Dog]

Maybe, if those young cheap low skill workers haven't added any value to themselves, then why do they deserve to be paid more.

Who said paid more? I think not being dismissed without cause is a basic worker's right.

Let the business decide who is valuable to them and who isn't. Work hard, you'll get your money and job security.

Maybe..if you're lucky...

Take a wild guess what the #1 religion in France is.

Hint: It's not Catholicism.

Really Jerry: who fucking cares?

[Riverwind]

Who said paid more? I think not being dismissed without cause is a basic worker's right.

There is always a 'cause' when a worker is let go. The issue is who has the onus to prove the the 'cause' was sufficient to justify the dismissal. In Canada, when a employer wishes to get rid of an employee who is under performing, the employer has the option of dismissing the worker without cause but the employer has to meet a number of statutory obligations regarding severance etc. If a employee really screws up, the employer can avoid paying severance by dismissing an employee with cause. However, in this case, the employer has to be prepared to prove in court that the 'cause' was justified. In 99% of cases, the employer just pays the severance and avoids the hassles of proving anything.

In France (and all other European countries with high unemployment rates), companies do not have the option of laying off individual workers without cause - the only option is dismissal with cause which requires a standard of proof that is difficult to obtain. The net result is employers are very careful about bringing on workers because it is extremely difficult to get rid of them if they don't work out.

The solution to the youth employment problem in France is to change the laws so workers of any age can be dismissed without cause just like in Canada, US, UK and Austrialia (all countries with a lot lower youth unemployement rate).

[August1991]

That is what excess socialism gets ya, 3 million lazy workers.

Nearly as bad as Canada. Don't let the unemployment figures kid you. Only 60% of Newfies in the labour pool even try to work, and of that 60%, 15% still can't 'find' work. Yet we support them endlessly.

Unemployment in France and Newfoundland are quite different.

In France, if an employer hires someone, it becomes extremely difficult to lay that person off. Not surprisingly, French employers are reticent to hire people - and take longer before deciding.

Imagine if divorce were illegal. I suspect you'd find more single people as they took longer to decide whether to marry. (Heck, we've got that now but it's not called "marriage", it's called "having children" and people take a long time because they know they will be responsible for life.)

[August1991]

Take a wild guess what the #1 religion in France is.

Hint: It's not Catholicism.

Not only is that point completely irrelevant to this discussion, it's also wrong.

CIA World Factbook gives the following number: Roman Catholic 83 to 88%, Muslim 5 to 10%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Take a wild guess what the #1 religion in France is.

Hint: It's not Catholicism.

Not only is that point completely irrelevant to this discussion, it's also wrong.

CIA World Factbook gives the following number: Roman Catholic 83 to 88%, Muslim 5 to 10%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%.

oops my typo - fastest GROWING religion in the country.

and it's not irrelevant.

France in flames by 2010. Watch the Islamo-ghettos closely.

[geoffrey]

More fear mongering.

The muslims are going to rise out of the ghettos and burn Paris to the ground! Onward Christian soliders, to France's defense!!!

[JerrySeinfeld]

More fear mongering.

The muslims are going to rise out of the ghettos and burn Paris to the ground! Onward Christian soliders, to France's defense!!!

Now you're getting it! Good for you, Geoffrey!!

[geoffrey]

More fear mongering.

The muslims are going to rise out of the ghettos and burn Paris to the ground! Onward Christian soliders, to France's defense!!!

Now you're getting it! Good for you, Geoffrey!!

Well Jerry, when it happens, I have my noble steed and crusading sword at stand-by, so call me up and I'll defend my fatherland.

[mcqueen625]

It occurs to me I can't recall the last time we had a real riot in Canada. The US doesn't have many either. But the French seem to have these vast, violent riots all the time. France, the home of sophistication and fine wines, where the state looks after all from gestation to grave. Yet if it's not student riots it's immigrant riots or farmer riots or labour riots. And we're talking about massive street fights here, with molotov cocktails and rocks hurled at police by protestors equipped with clubs and iron bars.

The French? But they're so sophisticated and urbane! I just don't get it.

At least they have the courage of their convictions and will not allow a heavy-handed government to tell them what to do a, as we do here in Canada. In this country some people want government to look after them from birth to the grave, and the clamoring by people like Jack Layton and the Liberals for a National Daycare Program is a perfect example. What ever happened to parents looking after their own offspring? When my children were growing up nobody was willing to pay for their daycare, therefore my wife and I decided that she would be a stay-at-home-mom at least until the children were in school.