Knights of the Communal Order

Winterhaze13 · February 22, 2006

Platform of the Communal Knighthood

I. Introduce a national child-care program that is completely funded and regulated by the federal government.

II. Nationalize all natural resource industries such as oil, gas, mining, steel, as well as some of the more important industries including automobiles and electronics.

III. Introduce universal education at all levels, including at the graduate level.

IV. Dismember the corporate world and replace it with a larger public sector, as well as with smaller and more competitive firms.

V. Introduce legislation that will increase the number of unions in the economy.

VI. Increase the presence of unions in the political process.

VII. The state should guarantee social services such as health insurance, pension and unemployment insurance.

VIII. Welfare programs should be adjusted according to inflation. If inflation is too high, the state should limit spending to the more privileged families.

IX. Introduce a full employment policy. This could be maintained through employment in the public sector.

X. Nationalize the banking system and eliminate interest on loans to low-income or middle-income households.

XI. Raise the minimum wage to $9.25 for students and $11.50 for adults.

XII. Introduce a law to regulate yearly raises that are consistent with the inflation rate.

XIII. Introduce a law that prohibits any elected official or their family from possessing and commercial or industrial property.

XIV. Revamp the tax system to assure that the wealthiest 10 percent of society does not possess for then 20 percent of the gross national product. While the poorest 20 percent cannot possess less then 10 percent. This will create a minimum and maximum standard of living.

XV. Adopt a party-based political system where the ruling party will elect a consul to rule for a period of 4 or 6 months.

XVI. Abolish the military and replace it with a large organized police for, as well as declare neutrality.

http://www.communalknighthood.blogspot.com/

wellandboy · February 22, 2006

Shouldn't this be the Knights of Marx and Engel?

Spike22 · February 22, 2006

Platform of the Communal Knighthood
I. Introduce a national child-care program that is completely funded and regulated by the federal government.

II. Nationalize all natural resource industries such as oil, gas, mining, steel, as well as some of the more important industries including automobiles and electronics.

III. Introduce universal education at all levels, including at the graduate level.

IV. Dismember the corporate world and replace it with a larger public sector, as well as with smaller and more competitive firms.

V. Introduce legislation that will increase the number of unions in the economy.

VI. Increase the presence of unions in the political process.

VII. The state should guarantee social services such as health insurance, pension and unemployment insurance.

VIII. Welfare programs should be adjusted according to inflation. If inflation is too high, the state should limit spending to the more privileged families.

IX. Introduce a full employment policy. This could be maintained through employment in the public sector.

X. Nationalize the banking system and eliminate interest on loans to low-income or middle-income households.

XI. Raise the minimum wage to $9.25 for students and $11.50 for adults.

XII. Introduce a law to regulate yearly raises that are consistent with the inflation rate.

XIII. Introduce a law that prohibits any elected official or their family from possessing and commercial or industrial property.

XIV. Revamp the tax system to assure that the wealthiest 10 percent of society does not possess for then 20 percent of the gross national product. While the poorest 20 percent cannot possess less then 10 percent. This will create a minimum and maximum standard of living.

XV. Adopt a party-based political system where the ruling party will elect a consul to rule for a period of 4 or 6 months.

XVI. Abolish the military and replace it with a large organized police for, as well as declare neutrality.

http://www.communalknighthood.blogspot.com/

Communal Knighthood = Liberal Communism

fellowtraveller · February 22, 2006

Aren't knights part of a feudal system?

And $9.25 for minimum wage? Wouldn't $40/hour be more fair? Business wouldn't mind paying this.

Argus · February 22, 2006

Platform of the Communal Knighthood
I. Introduce a national child-care program that is completely funded and regulated by the federal government.

II. Nationalize all natural resource industries such as oil, gas, mining, steel, as well as some of the more important industries including automobiles and electronics.

III. Introduce universal education at all levels, including at the graduate level.

IV. Dismember the corporate world and replace it with a larger public sector, as well as with smaller and more competitive firms.

V. Introduce legislation that will increase the number of unions in the economy.

VI. Increase the presence of unions in the political process.

VII. The state should guarantee social services such as health insurance, pension and unemployment insurance.

VIII. Welfare programs should be adjusted according to inflation. If inflation is too high, the state should limit spending to the more privileged families.

IX. Introduce a full employment policy. This could be maintained through employment in the public sector.

X. Nationalize the banking system and eliminate interest on loans to low-income or middle-income households.

XI. Raise the minimum wage to $9.25 for students and $11.50 for adults.

XII. Introduce a law to regulate yearly raises that are consistent with the inflation rate.

XIII. Introduce a law that prohibits any elected official or their family from possessing and commercial or industrial property.

XIV. Revamp the tax system to assure that the wealthiest 10 percent of society does not possess for then 20 percent of the gross national product. While the poorest 20 percent cannot possess less then 10 percent. This will create a minimum and maximum standard of living.

XV. Adopt a party-based political system where the ruling party will elect a consul to rule for a period of 4 or 6 months.

XVI. Abolish the military and replace it with a large organized police for, as well as declare neutrality.

http://www.communalknighthood.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to buy up Hasbro and have them print lots of Monopoly money for the government to spend.

Riverwind · February 22, 2006

And $9.25 for minimum wage? Wouldn't $40/hour be more fair? Business wouldn't mind paying this.

Why stop at $40. I am sure burger flippers deserve to life in comfort for that gruelling work. How about $100/hour?

August1991 · February 22, 2006

Platform of the Communal Knighthood
I. Introduce a national child-care program that is completely funded and regulated by the federal government.

II. Nationalize all natural resource industries such as oil, gas, mining, steel, as well as some of the more important industries including automobiles and electronics.

III. Introduce universal education at all levels, including at the graduate level.

IV. Dismember the corporate world and replace it with a larger public sector, as well as with smaller and more competitive firms.

V. Introduce legislation that will increase the number of unions in the economy.

VI. Increase the presence of unions in the political process.

VII. The state should guarantee social services such as health insurance, pension and unemployment insurance.

VIII. Welfare programs should be adjusted according to inflation. If inflation is too high, the state should limit spending to the more privileged families.

IX. Introduce a full employment policy. This could be maintained through employment in the public sector.

X. Nationalize the banking system and eliminate interest on loans to low-income or middle-income households.

XI. Raise the minimum wage to $9.25 for students and $11.50 for adults.

XII. Introduce a law to regulate yearly raises that are consistent with the inflation rate.

XIII. Introduce a law that prohibits any elected official or their family from possessing and commercial or industrial property.

XIV. Revamp the tax system to assure that the wealthiest 10 percent of society does not possess for then 20 percent of the gross national product. While the poorest 20 percent cannot possess less then 10 percent. This will create a minimum and maximum standard of living.

XV. Adopt a party-based political system where the ruling party will elect a consul to rule for a period of 4 or 6 months.

XVI. Abolish the military and replace it with a large organized police for, as well as declare neutrality.

http://www.communalknighthood.blogspot.com/

I too think it is necessary to rcord for posterity yet another of Winterhaze ramblings.

Winterhaze13 · February 25, 2006

Shouldn't this be the Knights of Marx and Engel?

That doesn't have enough catch.

Winterhaze13 · February 25, 2006

QUOTE(Winterhaze13 @ Feb 22 2006, 05:46 PM)
Platform of the Communal Knighthood

I. Introduce a national child-care program that is completely funded and regulated by the federal government.

II. Nationalize all natural resource industries such as oil, gas, mining, steel, as well as some of the more important industries including automobiles and electronics.

III. Introduce universal education at all levels, including at the graduate level.

IV. Dismember the corporate world and replace it with a larger public sector, as well as with smaller and more competitive firms.

V. Introduce legislation that will increase the number of unions in the economy.

VI. Increase the presence of unions in the political process.

VII. The state should guarantee social services such as health insurance, pension and unemployment insurance.

VIII. Welfare programs should be adjusted according to inflation. If inflation is too high, the state should limit spending to the more privileged families.

IX. Introduce a full employment policy. This could be maintained through employment in the public sector.

X. Nationalize the banking system and eliminate interest on loans to low-income or middle-income households.

XI. Raise the minimum wage to $9.25 for students and $11.50 for adults.

XII. Introduce a law to regulate yearly raises that are consistent with the inflation rate.

XIII. Introduce a law that prohibits any elected official or their family from possessing and commercial or industrial property.

XIV. Revamp the tax system to assure that the wealthiest 10 percent of society does not possess for then 20 percent of the gross national product. While the poorest 20 percent cannot possess less then 10 percent. This will create a minimum and maximum standard of living.

XV. Adopt a party-based political system where the ruling party will elect a consul to rule for a period of 4 or 6 months.

XVI. Abolish the military and replace it with a large organized police for, as well as declare neutrality.

http://www.communalknighthood.blogspot.com/

I too think it is necessary to rcord for posterity yet another of Winterhaze ramblings.

And I think this is just another thoughless right-wing response. :lol:

Winterhaze13 · February 25, 2006

Aren't knights part of a feudal system?
And $9.25 for minimum wage? Wouldn't $40/hour be more fair? Business wouldn't mind paying this.

Are the Knights of Columbus? I'm using the Templars, Hospitallers as a model. Knights just means guardians.

Winterhaze13 · February 25, 2006

And $9.25 for minimum wage? Wouldn't $40/hour be more fair? Business wouldn't mind paying this.
Why stop at $40. I am sure burger flippers deserve to life in comfort for that gruelling work. How about $100/hour?

And what is wrong with that? If the economy was not profit-based like capitalism, then maybe more social problems could be eradicated. But people like you choose to defend a system that takes advantage of the less fortunate. Remember, people used to defend feudalism too, after a while they adopted a new model. And with declining growth rates and instability in the world economy, don't be surprised that we start looking for a new model soon.

10 Points on Capitalism

1. Capitalism is elitist in that it creates a new aristocracy based in capital accumulation that makes up the ruling class in a democracy.

2. Capitalism exploits the disadvantaged in society by paying the most needy less, in order to boost profits. As a result, many of the disadvantaged are left behind in society, creating apathy. Inc. Single mothers, immigrants, ext.

3. Capitalism is incompatible with democracy in the sense that capitalism is competitive while democracy should be cooperative.

4. Capitalism creates conflict in society by pinning citizens against one another in the pursuit for capital.

5. Capitalism creates powerful multi-national corporations that often act out of self interest and never out of the common good of society. Corporations don’t support social justice.

6. Corporations have come to influence and even dictate state policy while preventing equality and social justice that conflicts with their economic interests. Capitalism keeps democracy from reaching its full potential.

7. In capitalism the employer pays their workers the lowest possible wage in order to maximize profit. In doing so, they prevent the economic welfare of their workers. Also, they do not promote equal pay for equal work.

8. Capitalism creates a discrepancy in wealth. In the United States, the wealthiest 20% possess almost half the wealth, while the poorest 20% possess roughly 5%. Source: World Bank

9. Capitalism does not permit universal education and therefore prevents social equality. It has created a money-driven society where the best education is available only to the wealthy because of inflating tuition costs.

10. Most politicians are wealthy and have business links when going into politics. As a result, this prevents them from acting out of the best interests of their constituents. Instead, they protect business interests in hopes that major corporations will fund their campaign.

http://www.communalknighthood.blogspot.com/

Hicksey · February 25, 2006

I have to laugh at people arguing about what minimum wage should be.

Minimum wage is an arbitrary number. Raising minimum wage will only serve to fuel inflation until prices reflect the economic climate we now have. The $40 an hour mentioned above will simply become the new $7.25 an hour.

The reality is that most everyday goods type employers pay minumum wage or within a dollar or two of minimum wage. Force them to raise their pay and they'll simply raise their prices to reflect the new wage costs.

Every time we raise minimum wage, within a year the resulting inflation makes that extra money worthless.

Why bother?

geoffrey · February 25, 2006

1. Capitalism is elitist in that it creates a new aristocracy based in capital accumulation that makes up the ruling class in a democracy.

Fortunes are lost as quickly as they are made. The ruling class in democracy is actually everyone. Last time I checked, everyone's votes counted equally in electing their reps. This equality is the problem, not some ruling class bullshit.

2. Capitalism exploits the disadvantaged in society by paying the most needy less, in order to boost profits. As a result, many of the disadvantaged are left behind in society, creating apathy. Inc. Single mothers, immigrants, ext.

Capitalism is the only system that lets anyone have above poverty levels of income. In a developed country like Canada, poverty is a choice. Get a 2nd job, sell your car, sell your house and rent, do whatever, and then complain about being poor. If you want more money, you have to earn it, not just get it.

3. Capitalism is incompatible with democracy in the sense that capitalism is competitive while democracy should be cooperative.

Democracy should be competitive too! Do people not compete for your support? Do issues not compete for public attention? There is nothing cooperative about equality or chosing your government, in fact, democracy is clearly a capitalist concept. Those that do the best for society, get elected (most of the time).

4. Capitalism creates conflict in society by pinning citizens against one another in the pursuit for capital.

I've never fought anyone for money. This same pursuit of capital creates efficiency as people find better ways to do old things. Thats why centrally planned systems are horribly ineffective in innovation. Generally me making more is going to help others make more when I spend it.

5. Capitalism creates powerful multi-national corporations that often act out of self interest and never out of the common good of society. Corporations don’t support social justice.

I'll agree with you on this point only. Alot of this has been created out of government intervention in the economy though. Small business is way more flexible and generally can adapt faster than the dinosaurs. There are exceptions of course.

6. Corporations have come to influence and even dictate state policy while preventing equality and social justice that conflicts with their economic interests. Capitalism keeps democracy from reaching its full potential.

Then vote for someone else. Public ignorance is the strongest argument against democracy. That isn't helping your democratic communist platform.

Corporations need influence in democracy. Where are you getting your jobs if all the corporations are moving elsewhere??

7. In capitalism the employer pays their workers the lowest possible wage in order to maximize profit. In doing so, they prevent the economic welfare of their workers. Also, they do not promote equal pay for equal work.

Not so. Higher wages and incentives generally create a more productive workforce. Companies that screw workers have high turnover and suffer in profit!

I don't buy this equal pay for equal work crap. If you don't like what you making, go somewhere else!! I'll quote Trudeau, your favourite semi-communist, who would even agree in this regard:

"What do you get? About $12, 000, $14,000 a year? What are you beefing about? You don't have to be a postal worker if you don't want. There's other people who'll take your job."

You choose your pay when you choose your job, don't bitch when you don't like that choice. Ignorance is not an excuse yet again.

8. Capitalism creates a discrepancy in wealth. In the United States, the wealthiest 20% possess almost half the wealth, while the poorest 20% possess roughly 5%. Source: World Bank

So everyone should have equal worth? Bullshit, people aren't equal, get over it.

Some people are more important to society, due to their intelligence, influence or physical attributes.

9. Capitalism does not permit universal education and therefore prevents social equality. It has created a money-driven society where the best education is available only to the wealthy because of inflating tuition costs.

Oh shut it about tution. Most people choose not to work through university. Tough shit. I've paid my way, pay yours. What crap! I don't buy that one bit. You can make enough in the summer if you choose to go work labouring to pay for your whole tution cost.

The problem is that most people won't do half jobs because they think too highly of themselves and instead expect someone else to pay for them. (read: silver spoon socialists)

Take out a student loan if your so poor, that is the worst possible excuse I've ever heard in my life.

10. Most politicians are wealthy and have business links when going into politics. As a result, this prevents them from acting out of the best interests of their constituents. Instead, they protect business interests in hopes that major corporations will fund their campaign.

Corporations can't really fund campaigns in Canada... oh well though, nice try.

If they act against their constituants best wishes, they can vote someone else in. Again, your saying that people are being misled... only ignorant people are, and I have no sympathy for those that choose not to research their candidates!

Winterhaze13 · February 25, 2006

Fortunes are lost as quickly as they are made. The ruling class in democracy is actually everyone. Last time I checked, everyone's votes counted equally in electing their reps. This equality is the problem, not some ruling class bullshit.

Every US senator is a millionaire, every partyhead in Canada is a white mail, only 20 of MPs are women. There is very much a ruling class.

Capitalism is the only system that lets anyone have above poverty levels of income. In a developed country like Canada, poverty is a choice. Get a 2nd job, sell your car, sell your house and rent, do whatever, and then complain about being poor. If you want more money, you have to earn it, not just get it

No one chooses to be poor, that just shows how ignorant you are. The fact is that not everyone has the same opportunity to excell and demonstrate their skills. Because everything is money-driven, for example not everyone can go to the best schools because they're the most expensive.

Democracy should be competitive too! Do people not compete for your support? Do issues not compete for public attention? There is nothing cooperative about equality or chosing your government, in fact, democracy is clearly a capitalist concept. Those that do the best for society, get elected (most of the time).

In an sense, but legislatures should at least cooperate with each other to pass the best bills. They compete to cooperate in a way.

I've never fought anyone for money. This same pursuit of capital creates efficiency as people find better ways to do old things. Thats why centrally planned systems are horribly ineffective in innovation. Generally me making more is going to help others make more when I spend it.

Well, in the sense you are when you are looking for a job. Often people have to reduce themselves for employment because capitalism has always created labour surplus. As a result workers are usually at the mercy of employers.

Then vote for someone else. Public ignorance is the strongest argument against democracy. That isn't helping your democratic communist platform.
Corporations need influence in democracy. Where are you getting your jobs if all the corporations are moving elsewhere??

Then who am I going to vote for? That's the problem, both major parties in Canada are corporate-driven. Also, corporations don't create jobs, in fact small and medium-sized companies as well as the private sector create the majority of jobs in society, corporations just inflict harm.

Not so. Higher wages and incentives generally create a more productive workforce. Companies that screw workers have high turnover and suffer in profit!
I don't buy this equal pay for equal work crap. If you don't like what you making, go somewhere else!! I'll quote Trudeau, your favourite semi-communist, who would even agree in this regard:

"What do you get? About $12, 000, $14,000 a year? What are you beefing about? You don't have to be a postal worker if you don't want. There's other people who'll take your job."

You choose your pay when you choose your job, don't bitch when you don't like that choice. Ignorance is not an excuse yet again.

Well, that's the problem with a profit-driven system. Also, people don't always have the flexability to go somewhere else because of the labour surplus. Also, I'm a socialist not a communist. And I'm a student by the way.

So everyone should have equal worth? Bullshit, people aren't equal, get over it.
Some people are more important to society, due to their intelligence, influence or physical attributes.

People should have equality in opportunity!! And they don't have that. That isn't justice.

Oh shut it about tution. Most people choose not to work through university. Tough shit. I've paid my way, pay yours. What crap! I don't buy that one bit. You can make enough in the summer if you choose to go work labouring to pay for your whole tution cost.
The problem is that most people won't do half jobs because they think too highly of themselves and instead expect someone else to pay for them. (read: silver spoon socialists)

Take out a student loan if your so poor, that is the worst possible excuse I've ever heard in my life.

I do pay my way, its not easy but I do and I know people who are in a much more unfotunate position then myself. I'm thinking about other people, maybe you should start doing the same.

Corporations can't really fund campaigns in Canada... oh well though, nice try.
If they act against their constituants best wishes, they can vote someone else in. Again, your saying that people are being misled... only ignorant people are, and I have no sympathy for those that choose not to research their candidates!

Corporate donations make up the bulk of political campaign donations. Do some research.

Hicksey · February 26, 2006

So everyone should have equal worth? Bullshit, people aren't equal, get over it.
Some people are more important to society, due to their intelligence, influence or physical attributes.

People should have equality in opportunity!! And they don't have that. That isn't justice.

People do have equality of opportunity. What you're not saying is that the bleeding hearts that make this argument often equate equality of opportunity with equality of outcome. Equality of opportunity isn't the same as equality of outcome. Some people invest much more effort than others. Some people work a lot smarter and efficiently than others. And people ought to be rewarded for that extra effort.

margrace · February 26, 2006

So everyone should have equal worth? Bullshit, people aren't equal, get over it.
Some people are more important to society, due to their intelligence, influence or physical attributes.

People should have equality in opportunity!! And they don't have that. That isn't justice.

People do have equality of opportunity. What you're not saying is that the bleeding hearts that make this argument often equate equality of opportunity with equality of outcome. Equality of opportunity isn't the same as equality of outcome. Some people invest much more effort than others. Some people work a lot smarter and efficiently than others. And people ought to be rewarded for that extra effort.

Sad to say the people who are gifted with the abilities to become the well to do in society are often the ones who get their worth by looking down on others.

Hollus · February 26, 2006

"Power today, resides in control of the means of production, exchange, publicity, transportation and communication. Whoever owns them rules the life of the country, even if democratic forms remain. Business for private profit through private control of banking, land, industry reinforced by command of the press, press agents and other means of publicity and propaganda, that is the system of actual power, the source of coercion and control, and until it's unravelled we can't talk seriously about democracy and freedom."-John Dewey

Hicksey · February 26, 2006

"Power today, resides in control of the means of production, exchange, publicity, transportation and communication. Whoever owns them rules the life of the country, even if democratic forms remain. Business for private profit through private control of banking, land, industry reinforced by command of the press, press agents and other means of publicity and propaganda, that is the system of actual power, the source of coercion and control, and until it's unravelled we can't talk seriously about democracy and freedom."-John Dewey

So by what means other than communism can that happen.

I may work hard for what little I have, and but by no means do I resent those who have more than I. I realize that I have erred in some of my choices in life. I could have much more, but I am where I am at now and that's the hand I have to play with now. Why complain and seek to punish others more successful than I? Just because I haven't met with the expectations I had for myself, doesn't give me the right to demand they give more to make me happy.

fellowtraveller · February 26, 2006

I have to laugh at people arguing about what minimum wage should be.
Minimum wage is an arbitrary number. Raising minimum wage will only serve to fuel inflation until prices reflect the economic climate we now have. The $40 an hour mentioned above will simply become the new $7.25 an hour.

The reality is that most everyday goods type employers pay minumum wage or within a dollar or two of minimum wage. Force them to raise their pay and they'll simply raise their prices to reflect the new wage costs.

Every time we raise minimum wage, within a year the resulting inflation makes that extra money worthless.

Why bother?

Are you the type of person who believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible too? Nobody was arguing for an actual increase of the minimum wage to $40 or $100 per hour, just poking a little fun at the OP.

I'll try to remember to insert a [sarcasm] font next time.

lost&outofcontrol · February 27, 2006

So by what means other than communism can that happen.
I may work hard for what little I have, and but by no means do I resent those who have more than I. I realize that I have erred in some of my choices in life. I could have much more, but I am where I am at now and that's the hand I have to play with now. Why complain and seek to punish others more successful than I? Just because I haven't met with the expectations I had for myself, doesn't give me the right to demand they give more to make me happy.

So what you're basically saying is that if you/everybody were to make the right choices in life, we'd all be rich ? That's laughable. It's not about resentment. Some facts for you:

In the United States, 10% of the people control over 70% of the wealth. Again in the United States, property crimes reported to the FBI cost Americans $3 to $4 billion per year while corporate and "white collar" crime cost over $200 billion a year yet all we see is cop shows chasing after the "bad guys". The share of the corporate tax burden has declined from 25% in the 50's to less than 10% today. Almost 1/5 Canadians live below the poverty level so don't tell me it's a "choice".

Capitalism functions like a big pyramid, don't you think everybody wants to be the movie star or the rich CEO? The ruling class of democracy is and always will be the same. It's like that South Park episode where the kids have to vote of either a big douche or a turd sandwich, as long as the choices are almost the same nothing will change. Tell me what are the major differences between the two political parties in the US.

Multi-national corporations become so powerful that we end up with the Indonesian scenario where they can dictate what the government has to do to appease them and how to do it(mass murder of "dissidents"). You said(I can't believe you actually said this!) ;

Companies that screw workers have high turnover and suffer in profit!

This only works when you need a highly qualified labour. Do you think Dell, Wallmart or the vast majority of these corporations employ all of their workers in this fashion? This applies to a very very small minority of workers. And you know what happens to a "highly qualified" worker, he eventually becomes replaceable with a cheaper alternative. **edit** Take 10 mins to read this, that's all I ask.

Capitalism works because of the imbalance of power between the classes. Don't like your job, there's a bunch of others who want it, wanna buy a house, you have to get a loan with the bank dictating the rules. Look at what free market capitalism has done to Mexico, Bangladesh(especially this country), most eastern European and African nations(Kenya for a very good example) since the creation of the WTO. The few will always control the many.

As for the platform of the Communal Knighthood, it's still a capitalist system albeit a very socialist one burdened with the same problems as our current system. For as long as people can amass property, there will be an imbalance in power by creating different classes.

Montgomery Burns · February 27, 2006

I think we should all thank Geoffrey for having the patience (I wouldn't have even bothered) to wield The Cluebat™ to this communist/socialist post by Winterhaze.

Good grief.

The employer has the advantage?

In Newfoundland where the unemployment rate is 15+%, yes! Certainly not in Alberta where the unemployment rate is 3.5%.

Not in the US where the unemployment rate is 4.7%.

The left constantly amazes me. No matter that the USSR could not compete with the USA; no matter that Western Europe's economy is struggling because of their socialism; no matter that socialism/communism has been proven time and time again to be a failure, the left insists that if only it was done "correctly", communism/socialism would be an utopia.

Socialism/Communism = everyone poor

Capitalism = everyone's standard of living rises.

You ever checked out the US govt's standard of "poor"? These ppl aren't exactly destitute.

And, as Geoffrey said, I paid for my own education. I did not expect the rest of the country to pay for it.

Why the hell do you think that the USSR collapsed when confronted by Reagan and the US?

Incentive. Why bother to go to school for years to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/accountant if you are only going to be making a bit more money than the janitor at your local elementary school?

It might sound greedy but that is human nature. My first priority is myself, my interests and my loved one's interests. When I vote, I vote for my interests. I don't give a damn what Fwance/China/Germany/Russia/America and the UN wants. I vote for MY interests. Period. That being said, I do give some money to charity...but I give it when I feel like it.

I resent Winterhaze's claim that businesses take advantage of employees. Some might, but I didn't make a profit (a very small profit) until my 3rd yr in business. I lost money my first 2 years. The 1st year I probably averaged 70 hrs/wk trying to stay afloat. I basically did nothing for a year straight except work and sleep--no time-and-a-half overtime for me. I went over my credit limit when customers were slow in their bills--costing me money. And when I went downtown and got accosted by invective-spewing bums demanding money....I resented it! :angry:

F*ck 'em. Take a shower, get a haircut, get some clean clothes and get a J-O-B.

I worked like a bugger to get where I am.

Like Geoffrey said, everybody is not the same. Life is a b*tch sometimes. You have to deal with it.

Is capitalism perfect? No. Is it the best system out there? Yes.

I pay my employees a decent wage and I am NOT FORCING them to work for me.

Arrgggghhhh. Why did I waste my time replying to this commie?

Sorry for the rant but this OP pissed me off.

$11.50/hr minimum wage? Yeah right. Then the left would be whining about the high cost of products/services because of those "evil greedy businesses".

What a load of crap!

I didn't take the risk - and it is a risk - to go into business to make my employees wealthy.

geoffrey · February 27, 2006

I think we should all thank Geoffrey for having the patience (I wouldn't have even bothered) to wield The Cluebat™ to this communist/socialist post by Winterhaze.
Good grief.

The employer has the advantage?

In Newfoundland where the unemployment rate is 15+%, yes! Certainly not in Alberta where the unemployment rate is 3.5%.

Not in the US where the unemployment rate is 4.7%.

The left constantly amazes me. No matter that the USSR could not compete with the USA; no matter that Western Europe's economy is struggling because of their socialism; no matter that socialism/communism has been proven time and time again to be a failure, the left insists that if only it was done "correctly", communism/socialism would be an utopia.

Socialism/Communism = everyone poor

Capitalism = everyone's standard of living rises.

You ever checked out the US govt's standard of "poor"? These ppl aren't exactly destitute.

And, as Geoffrey said, I paid for my own education. I did not expect the rest of the country to pay for it.

Why the hell do you think that the USSR collapsed when confronted by Reagan and the US?

Incentive. Why bother to go to school for years to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/accountant if you are only going to be making a bit more money than the janitor at your local elementary school?

It might sound greedy but that is human nature. My first priority is myself, my interests and my loved one's interests. When I vote, I vote for my interests. I don't give a damn what Fwance/China/Germany/Russia/America and the UN wants. I vote for MY interests. Period. That being said, I do give some money to charity...but I give it when I feel like it.

I resent Winterhaze's claim that businesses take advantage of employees. Some might, but I didn't make a profit (a very small profit) until my 3rd yr in business. I lost money my first 2 years. The 1st year I probably averaged 70 hrs/wk trying to stay afloat. I basically did nothing for a year straight except work and sleep--no time-and-a-half overtime for me. I went over my credit limit when customers were slow in their bills--costing me money. And when I went downtown and got accosted by invective-spewing bums demanding money....I resented it! :angry:

F*ck 'em. Take a shower, get a haircut, get some clean clothes and get a J-O-B.

I worked like a bugger to get where I am.

Like Geoffrey said, everybody is not the same. Life is a b*tch sometimes. You have to deal with it.

Is capitalism perfect? No. Is it the best system out there? Yes.

I pay my employees a decent wage and I am NOT FORCING them to work for me.

Arrgggghhhh. Why did I waste my time replying to this commie?

Sorry for the rant but this OP pissed me off.

$11.50/hr minimum wage? Yeah right. Then the left would be whining about the high cost of products/services because of those "evil greedy businesses".

What a load of crap!

I didn't take the risk - and it is a risk - to go into business to make my employees wealthy.

Good post Monty... couldn't have said it better myself. We who are in small business, or I guess those at the top of big business, are the few that understand that businesses aren't their to screw the worker. Honestly, I have people that work for me in temporary positions when the work gets too much, and I pay them very well and reward them for their hard work. Do I feel like they should make as much as me? Absolutely not, its my risk, and mostly my abilities as a small business manager (while going to school) that has created that work for them.

I truly resent those that think we are all out to screw them. It's mostly those with little drive or motivation to achieve their goals that spew this sort of rubbish, instead of working hard for what they get in life, they call in the 37.5 hour work week, and wages increasing faster than inflation. Why do they deserve this?

I know if I was to bring people on board as full-time employees, I have two choices. I could pay meager wages to employees that come and go, won't work overtime, won't work holidays, and have zero commitment to their job past their paycheque(read: socialist types). Or I could pay someone considerably more thats dedicated, isn't afraid to put in some extra time, and is genuinely interested in helping my business grow. Obviously the second is my choice, and I'd be willing to pay for that. No one is getting screwed.

It's these lazy worker types that expect to have everything and do just the minimum. Well, when you do the minimum, the minimum is what you'll get.

Work harder and you'll make more. If your not physically handicapped, you only have yourself to blame for your place in our society. End of story.

Hicksey · February 27, 2006

So by what means other than communism can that happen.

I may work hard for what little I have, and but by no means do I resent those who have more than I. I realize that I have erred in some of my choices in life. I could have much more, but I am where I am at now and that's the hand I have to play with now. Why complain and seek to punish others more successful than I? Just because I haven't met with the expectations I had for myself, doesn't give me the right to demand they give more to make me happy.

So what you're basically saying is that if you/everybody were to make the right choices in life, we'd all be rich ? That's laughable. It's not about resentment. Some facts for you:

In the United States, 10% of the people control over 70% of the wealth. Again in the United States, property crimes reported to the FBI cost Americans $3 to $4 billion per year while corporate and "white collar" crime cost over $200 billion a year yet all we see is cop shows chasing after the "bad guys". The share of the corporate tax burden has declined from 25% in the 50's to less than 10% today. Almost 1/5 Canadians live below the poverty level so don't tell me it's a "choice".

Capitalism functions like a big pyramid, don't you think everybody wants to be the movie star or the rich CEO? The ruling class of democracy is and always will be the same. It's like that South Park episode where the kids have to vote of either a big douche or a turd sandwich, as long as the choices are almost the same nothing will change. Tell me what are the major differences between the two political parties in the US.

Multi-national corporations become so powerful that we end up with the Indonesian scenario where they can dictate what the government has to do to appease them and how to do it(mass murder of "dissidents"). You said(I can't believe you actually said this!) ;

Like it or not, people do choose where they end up. It may not be a direct choice, but we do choose. When someone chooses not to finish high-school, they're choosing to be poor. When they choose to have more kids to get more welfare instead of going to work and making more money than welfare will give them, they are choosing to be poor. I don't feel for people like that one bit. They chose their fate. Hell, there's even people that can't read that have a high school diploma. If you can't be bothered to finish high school, then suffer. Its there and its on Joe Taxpayer, as will be your inevitable welfare cheque.

As for your bit about who is and isn't paying taxes, its all moot. When you force business and corporations to pay more taxes they simply pass them down the line as costs included in the pricing of their goods. In the end taxing business only hurts the poor more because what little money they do get ends up buying them less.

If the NDP has one thing right it is their retraining programs, and making post secondary more affordable to more people. We're farther off to foot the bill to train these people and put them to work than we are to keep giving them welfare cheques.

Spike22 · February 27, 2006

Next thing you'll know the fags will want thier own order: 'Ring of the Smelly Arsehole Order' :lol:

Winterhaze13 · March 3, 2006