They want our oil

[speaker]

You are quite right, why would a company sell to Canadians cheaper oil and gas than it could get from export. Not to mention the free trade agreement would kick in and we would be found in the wrong.

Any oil and gas in Canada whether exported or not, once used, is part of the depletion of a very valuable Canadian resource. Who do you think would oppose a nations right to develop it's energy sufficiency? We might lose some small portion of our customers, but reliability and closeness would also count in American purchase decisions. In the meantime our own taxes would go a long way toward making this a more sustainable country, Plus having any unsold oil and gas still in the ground wouldn't hurt either.

[Charles Anthony]

The future is coal and I hear BC has mountains of it. That also means things are going to get a lot warmer on this planet before the get colder.

Global warming and CO2... where have we had this discussion before.

Clean coal is a pretty reasonable direction to head in, and I think its a great idea overall. My bigger environmental concerns over global warming (all natural I assure you!) is water pollution and damage by expansion and industrial development. I am concerned about what further development into coal will do to the environment... have you seen a strip mine?

Burning more coal! Ahh!

Clean energy is staring us in the face! When are we going to promote large-scale wind-power throughout the country?!?!?

[Toro]

Of course Americans want our oil. That's why they're paying $77 a barrell for it.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Toro,

Of course Americans want our oil. That's why they're paying $77 a barrell for it.

Indeed, and that is also why we are happy to sell it to them.

Charles Anthony,

Clean energy is staring us in the face! When are we going to promote large-scale wind-power throughout the country?!?!?

When Mammon says it is OK. It certainly isn't going to happen 'just because it is the right thing to do'...

[jdobbin]

Clean energy is staring us in the face! When are we going to promote large-scale wind-power throughout the country?!?!?

People are protesting the visual pollution. It also kills birds.

[geoffrey]

Dear Toro,

Of course Americans want our oil. That's why they're paying $77 a barrell for it.

Indeed, and that is also why we are happy to sell it to them.

Charles Anthony,

Clean energy is staring us in the face! When are we going to promote large-scale wind-power throughout the country?!?!?

When Mammon says it is OK. It certainly isn't going to happen 'just because it is the right thing to do'...

Alberta has tons of wind power. You have to be in certain places that contain the vital ingredient, each and every day consistantly. There aren't many such places in Canada.

[jdobbin]

Alberta has tons of wind power. You have to be in certain places that contain the vital ingredient, each and every day consistantly. There aren't many such places in Canada.

Are you saying there are some consistent blow hards in Alberta? <heh>

[geoffrey]

Alberta has tons of wind power. You have to be in certain places that contain the vital ingredient, each and every day consistantly. There aren't many such places in Canada.

Are you saying there are some consistent blow hards in Alberta? <heh>

Just in Pincher Creek.

[Charles Anthony]

Clean energy is staring us in the face! When are we going to promote large-scale wind-power throughout the country?!?!?

When Mammon says it is OK. It certainly isn't going to happen 'just because it is the right thing to do'...

I would suggest that a lot of fossil-fuel-industry-crony-capitalism is the main barrier in this market.

[geoffrey]

Clean energy is staring us in the face! When are we going to promote large-scale wind-power throughout the country?!?!?

When Mammon says it is OK. It certainly isn't going to happen 'just because it is the right thing to do'...

I would suggest that a lot of fossil-fuel-industry-crony-capitalism is the main barrier in this market.

Aren't you the big anarchist/libertarian? Why not everyone just fend for their own energy? If I remember you correctly, your hardly one to ask the government to focus on non-market solutions.

[Charles Anthony]

Aren't you the big anarchist/libertarian?

Yes.

Why not everyone just fend for their own energy?

Because you could buy it from a private supplier instead.

If I remember you correctly, your hardly one to ask the government to focus on non-market solutions.

That is correct and I try to cope with government. What would you want me to do?

I make suggestions which lean more towards freedom rather than away from freedom. What criteria do you follow?

[yam]

Its not my intention to cast a gloom over the forum but since there is now (and many more in the pipeline) not only a few of these kinds of analysis/projections, i thought id fish out a pretty much consensual diagnosis of events

and quote this:

The peaking of world oil production presents the US and the world with an unprecented risk management problem. As peaking is approache. liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking

'The Hirsch Report' commissioned by the US departmen of Energy from Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) in heinberg,R 'The Party's Over, Oil, War and the Fate of Industrial Societies.

This is alarming since the peak has 'optimistically' been sited as being between 2010 - 16. However, others have said we have already peaked!!

1) serious mitigation has not started yet (there are definitions of serious by the way).

2) economic and social costs despite alternative means (because of the slow time in production, let alone cost of farming them) is gloomy especially for urban workers. For example the US and much of Canada's labour force that travel into work will not be able to afford the energy costs to get into work. Shopping malls etc, by all accounts are going to be boarded up. Following this urban house prices are going to fall through the floor. Import export will be minimal if at all - thus no competition and high prices. Many homes are going to be abandoned and there is going to be a mass migration to th city centres. Obviously this case extends to those living in rural areas.

But in this little summary i have not included what it will mean in world relations. More directly first and third world countries. And what of China whose just got a firm niche into the worlds economy going to do when it is more than likely going to be refused its 100% need of energy imports! What of India come to that.

What of the Arab states - wars? - installng Westernised democratic governments might not work.

Kind of mind boggling.

Anybody got anything more hopeful to say. Because believe me id love to labell this 'alarmist research', but the above is not from a left wing think tank (nothing wrong with that but said in view of skeptics), rather the opposite. So if they are pushing this as others are - what gives

[geoffrey]

That is correct and I try to cope with government. What would you want me to do?

I make suggestions which lean more towards freedom rather than away from freedom. What criteria do you follow?

Probably similar to yours. I want companies to be able to freely produce energy by whatever means the market supports, and allow customers to buy it from anyone they wish at market prices.

I work for a company involved in the industry, I'd love to see us further deregulated. It's best for consumers.

But don't expect any company to fork up the massive costs of wind power when coal is incrediably cheaper.

[Charles Anthony]

I'd love to see us further deregulated. It's best for consumers.

But it is worse for the employees of the regulated industries. We like to protect jobs at the consumers expense. Our agriculture industry is filled with that.

But don't expect any company to fork up the massive costs of wind power when coal is incrediably cheaper.

The trouble is that we have social structures that place unfair advantages to make things cheaper relative to others.

What if you found out that the coal industry was subsidized? (I do not know if it is or not throughout Canada. I am only talking hypothetically.)

Subsidizing industries and cronyism can be concealed in so many different ways.

[geoffrey]

I'd love to see us further deregulated. It's best for consumers.

But it is worse for the employees of the regulated industries. We like to protect jobs at the consumers expense. Our agriculture industry is filled with that.

Deregulation would see me and my co-workers make more money. We'd love to hire another 50-60 employees, but we are forbidden by our agreement with the provincial government. Regulation doesn't benefit industry workers or consumers, it hurts everyone except government.

But don't expect any company to fork up the massive costs of wind power when coal is incrediably cheaper.

The trouble is that we have social structures that place unfair advantages to make things cheaper relative to others.

What if you found out that the coal industry was subsidized? (I do not know if it is or not throughout Canada. I am only talking hypothetically.)

Subsidizing industries and cronyism can be concealed in so many different ways.

Agreed, no corporate welfare either. Let the markets do their thing, we'll all be better off. I'm not in support of subsidizing coal if I'm not in support of subsizing wind. Just nothing should really be subsidized.