"Hit the Road" Jack!

[geoffrey]

What are you taking that its costing you that much? Wow. At UBC?

Ive included living expenses in that price.

Ah indeed. What are you taking?

[Hollus]

What are you taking that its costing you that much? Wow. At UBC?

Ive included living expenses in that price.

Ah indeed. What are you taking?

I havent focused on a degree yet. Still waiting for all applications to come back. Looking to enroll as an arts student and take a variety of classes(History,economics,polisci).

[geoffrey]

What are you taking that its costing you that much? Wow. At UBC?

Ive included living expenses in that price.

Ah indeed. What are you taking?

I havent focused on a degree yet. Still waiting for all applications to come back. Looking to enroll as an arts student and take a variety of classes(History,economics,polisci).

Good call, don't rush it, thats just crazy and stressful. I'm doing mine in 3 years (and thats a double major).

I feel my first heart attack isn't far away.

Anyways... back to the topic....

[uOttawaMan]

Come to UOttawa, its chill. lol

[lost&outofcontrol]

Come to UOttawa, its chill. lol

What are you taking UOttawaMan ? I'm at Ottawa University too.

[SamStranger]

You people are in such denial!!! You sit here and accuse me of 'not doing my research' about the NDP. I got one name for you... BOB RAE. That son of a bitch ran the largest deficit Ontario had ever seen since the damn Depression... Balanced budget!!! Are you insane??? Even in B.C the NDP ran a huge deficiet. And don't you dare tell me that the NDP never raise taxes because Bob Rae raised taxes!!! Stop being in denial. All the NDP does is raise taxes, and spend them on the poor.

Correct me if Im wrong... but did Jack Layton not purpose the 'Wine for Homeless" program to give free wine to hobos... Why should my tax dollars go towards booze for friggin' bums...???????

the NDP are the worst party in Canadian history. They have not proven themselves. If they were in power, our country would go into massive deficit. and no one would ever see a tax cut.

Put that in your pipes and smoke em'

[BubberMiley]

Bob Rae had a major recession to deal with.

You ignoring the points I made about the Manitoba NDP, which is comprised of many of the same people in the federal NDP. In fact, they all had a big post-election meeting in Winnipeg this week.

[SamStranger]

Bob Rae had a major recession to deal with.

You ignoring the points I made about the Manitoba NDP, which is comprised of many of the same people in the federal NDP. In fact, they all had a big post-election meeting in Winnipeg this week.

Well... your ignoring all my main points aswell. Your telling me you still support the NDP even though Bob Rae ran the largest deficit in Ontarios History since the depression. And Layton wants to spend our tax dollars on booze for bums... Wow... I guesse Im the only one here that likes to see my money in my pocket... not in booze for bums.

[Hollus]

Bob Rae had a major recession to deal with.

You ignoring the points I made about the Manitoba NDP, which is comprised of many of the same people in the federal NDP. In fact, they all had a big post-election meeting in Winnipeg this week.

Well... your ignoring all my main points aswell. Your telling me you still support the NDP even though Bob Rae ran the largest deficit in Ontarios History since the depression. And Layton wants to spend our tax dollars on booze for bums... Wow... I guesse Im the only one here that likes to see my money in my pocket... not in booze for bums.

You could look into the history of provincial politics and pull out horror stories about every party. I dont think that type of argument holds much water.

What do you know about the 'wine for homless' program? Can you atleast acknowledge what the findings of the program were? Should I assume your completely insensitive to the struggle against homlessness?

Study toasts free drinks

drinking their way to good health

[tml12]

Bob Rae had a major recession to deal with.

You ignoring the points I made about the Manitoba NDP, which is comprised of many of the same people in the federal NDP. In fact, they all had a big post-election meeting in Winnipeg this week.

Well... your ignoring all my main points aswell. Your telling me you still support the NDP even though Bob Rae ran the largest deficit in Ontarios History since the depression. And Layton wants to spend our tax dollars on booze for bums... Wow... I guesse Im the only one here that likes to see my money in my pocket... not in booze for bums.

You could look into the history of provincial politics and pull out horror stories about every party. I dont think that type of argument holds much water.

What do you know about the 'wine for homless' program? Can you atleast acknowledge what the findings of the program were? Should I assume your completely insensitive to the struggle against homlessness?

Study toasts free drinks

drinking their way to good health

A few weeks ago I read about a program in Ottawa where a man successfully reduced his alcohol consumption from 9 bottles of wine to 9 glasses of wine a day. That is significant and, although a conservative, I would endorse such a program should I read about one here in Montreal.

We live in a society where we are literally indicted by alcohol commercials and how we can use alcohol to "relieve stress" and "take refuge."

I don't support "free needle" things to avoid AIDS because both can result from carelessness. Alcohol clinics, on the other hand, not a bad idea.

[SamStranger]

Its the principle! Why should our tax dollars go towards booze and needles for hobos?? its insane

[Hollus]

Its the principle! Why should our tax dollars go towards booze and needles for hobos?? its insane

Wow! then you'll really be perturbed when I start a thread Ive been thinking about, to debate the possibilties of regulating the black market. I dont understand your failure to reconize the potential to ease the burden on our system, by addressing the very issues that cause the burden. Why don't you google corporate welfare and bitch about that? Since when did we govern by principle? We make decisions based on what provides the best outcome for us all(or atleast try to).

[SamStranger]

Its the principle! Why should our tax dollars go towards booze and needles for hobos?? its insane

Wow! then you'll really be perturbed when I start a thread Ive been thinking about, to debate the possibilties of regulating the black market. I dont understand your failure to reconize the potential to ease the burden on our system, by addressing the very issues that cause the burden. Why don't you google corporate welfare and bitch about that? Since when did we govern by principle? We make decisions based on what provides the best outcome for us all(or atleast try to).

So my tax dollars going towards booze for frikkin junkies helps me... Oh my God, Ive been Born Again!

(Sarcasm)

[Hollus]

Its the principle! Why should our tax dollars go towards booze and needles for hobos?? its insane

Wow! then you'll really be perturbed when I start a thread Ive been thinking about, to debate the possibilties of regulating the black market. I dont understand your failure to reconize the potential to ease the burden on our system, by addressing the very issues that cause the burden. Why don't you google corporate welfare and bitch about that? Since when did we govern by principle? We make decisions based on what provides the best outcome for us all(or atleast try to).

So my tax dollars going towards booze for frikkin junkies helps me... Oh my God, Ive been Born Again!

(Sarcasm)

Yes. It helps society. Which indirectly helps you.

Your response leaves my to ask you again: "What do you know about the 'wine for homless' program? Can you atleast acknowledge what the findings of the program were? Should I assume your completely insensitive to the struggle against homlessness?"

I put some links up so you could familiarize yourself with the Managed Alcohol Program

[SamStranger]

I care about homelessness... I jsut dont think giving them booze is a good idea. Give them a suite and a resume, and get their asses to work--- thats my motto.

[Hollus]

I care about homelessness... I jsut dont think giving them booze is a good idea. Give them a suite and a resume, and get their asses to work--- thats my motto.

...please, just read the links :angry: Before you go developing motto's on how to deal with certian segments of our population, atleast take the time to educate yourself on the issue.

[SamStranger]

Bums are Bums because they are lazy. Your telling me they cant get a job? the governement shoulkd give them a suite and a resume and get their asses to work.

Am I wrong??

With all the money they would spend on booze for bums,. why not buy nice Armani suites...

[Hollus]

Bums are Bums because they are lazy. Your telling me they cant get a job? the governement shoulkd give them a suite and a resume and get their asses to work.

Am I wrong??

With all the money they would spend on booze for bums,. why not buy nice Armani suites...

Yes your wrong.

...how 'bout this: People are ignorant because they are lazy. They base all their ideas off of miss-interpretated

information and false preconceptions. They dissregard provided links by others because they are to lazy to think of anything that dosent directly effect them(hence, they're main concern of how much they're taxed). They attack and disregard people who's ideas conflict their own, because logic threatens their ignorence and challenges them to reconize the self-serving attitdue they've wraped themselves in. But hey. Can you blame them? Reality is pretty tough, and when you dont have ignorence to shade you from the harsh light of the real world, its easier to understand how someone could find themselves on the street with a debilitating illness(chronic alcoholism).

[SamStranger]

Well im sorry... but their are more important things to me then boozing up hobos. Where do you get off!?? U have the nerve to call me ignorant because I would rather see money go into programs to get the homeless working, not boozing up...

You can't force your ideals on me, nor can I do the same to you... but atleast try to see my point.

[Kincora]

Well im sorry... but their are more important things to me then boozing up hobos. Where do you get off!?? U have the nerve to call me ignorant because I would rather see money go into programs to get the homeless working, not boozing up...

You can't force your ideals on me, nor can I do the same to you... but atleast try to see my point.

I'm sorry to say, but you have earned that label all on your own. You keep going back to that same stereotype of "boozing up hobos." You're really coming off as pathetic.

You ask him to see your point, but you make none. The one vague idea you keep throwing out has been disputed and you can't even lift a finger to research it yourself and provice a reasonnable rebuttal.

Dear god man, he's given you the links! Click on them, read a little. I'm not saying you have to agree with everything there, god knows I don't, but at least acknwledge the other side and argue it, instead of ramming the same idiotic sentence again and again.

"U have the nerve to call me ignorant because I would rather see..."

And you have the nerve to call yourself anythign but ignorant with the way you've been posting?

[Hollus]

Well Sammy...

Myself and others have been very patient with you on this thread. Each post we've made has had very valid pionts. But its like you dont even read the posts. You've been repeating this motto: "the governement should give them a suite and a resume and get their asses to work." This very statment makes it clear just how out of touch you are in this argument. If you read those links I provided, you would know why your motto won't work.

Do you really think the person that developed the Managed Alcolhol Program does not have as good a grasp on the homlessness issue as you do? As I continue to try and explain, while you continue to ignore me: Your ideas might work in a fairytale land-where streets are paved with chocolate and street signs made with candy canes-but here... In the real world, we need real world solutions.

Did I call you ignorant? I simply provided you with the definition of ignorence as I see it. If you felt this pertained to yourself than thats somthing you need to think about

[Hicksey]

Well Sammy...

Myself and others have been very patient with you on this thread. Each post we've made has had very valid pionts. But its like you dont even read the posts. You've been repeating this motto: "the governement should give them a suite and a resume and get their asses to work." This very statment makes it clear just how out of touch you are in this argument. If you read those links I provided, you would know why your motto won't work.

Do you really think the person that developed the Managed Alcolhol Program does not have as good a grasp on the homlessness issue as you do? As I continue to try and explain, while you continue to ignore me: Your ideas might work in a fairytale land-where streets are paved with chocolate and street signs made with candy canes-but here... In the real world, we need real world solutions.

Did I call you ignorant? I simply provided you with the definition of ignorence as I see it. If you felt this pertained to yourself than thats somthing you need to think about

I think the underlying point is that Jack Layton's idea of Canada is a nanny-state. The program in question is a good example of this.

At this point in our history, with all the social safety nets we have in place, if you fall through the cracks you had to have been trying to. There's nothing stopping people from rebounding from homelessness and addiction on their own using existing government programs like welfare, substance addiction programs, etc ... Why do we need still more programs? The short answer is that we don't.

This isn't to say that the people who conducted the study know nothing about homelessness. They likely know more than you and I do. What I am saying that their direction was flawed. The time they wasted on this could have been better spent indentifying and possibly researching why other avenues are not used. We've got a social program for everything in this country at this point, and the best time spent would be spent streamlining our current efforts and first seeing where they can assist before even thinking about new ones.

[Hollus]

I think the underlying point is that Jack Layton's idea of Canada is a nanny-state. The program in question is a good example of this.

And I think the underlying piont is that you and Sammy are completely disconnected from the idea of social programs and the people that need them.

At this point in our history, with all the social safety nets we have in place, if you fall through the cracks you had to have been trying to. There's nothing stopping people from rebounding from homelessness and addiction on their own using existing government programs like welfare, substance addiction programs, etc ... Why do we need still more programs? The short answer is that we don't.

Oh really? You speak as though your quite informed on the subject, why not share what information you have to back this up? Or is this just your personal opinion, like that of Sammy's?

This isn't to say that the people who conducted the study know nothing about homelessness. They likely know more than you and I do. What I am saying that their direction was flawed. The time they wasted on this could have been better spent indentifying and possibly researching why other avenues are not used. We've got a social program for everything in this country at this point, and the best time spent would be spent streamlining our current efforts and first seeing where they can assist before even thinking about new ones.

Their direction is flawed? You just admitted to these scientists knowing more about the subject than yourself, and then you proclaim that they've got it all wrong without even explaining why, and they should have spent their time "researching why other avenues are not used"... What avenues?

I really dont think you guys understand the issue, and I really wish you'd do some more reading on the subject before you post this crap.

Here is another link to get you started. Ive noticed that some of you dont click and read them so Ive provided an excert: "A study has shown that one-third of the homeless are people living with mental illness; for example, 75 percent of homeless single women suffer from a mental disorder. Many of those on the street with mental illness or addictions are homeless because they have been discharged from hospitals or jails without proper community resources. There are few adequate plans to support their reintegration into community life once discharged from institutions. In addition, drug-use, alcohol and gambling addictions contribute to persons becoming or remaining homeless."

[Hicksey]

I think the underlying point is that Jack Layton's idea of Canada is a nanny-state. The program in question is a good example of this.

And I think the underlying piont is that you and Sammy are completely disconected from the idea of social programs and the people that need them.

At this point in our history, with all the social safety nets we have in place, if you fall through the cracks you had to have been trying to. There's nothing stopping people from rebounding from homelessness and addiction on their own using existing government programs like welfare, substance addiction programs, etc ... Why do we need still more programs? The short answer is that we don't.

Oh really? You speak as though your quite informed on the subject, why not share what information you have to back this up? Or is this just your personal opinion, like that of Sammy's?

This isn't to say that the people who conducted the study know nothing about homelessness. They likely know more than you and I do. What I am saying that their direction was flawed. The time they wasted on this could have been better spent indentifying and possibly researching why other avenues are not used. We've got a social program for everything in this country at this point, and the best time spent would be spent streamlining our current efforts and first seeing where they can assist before even thinking about new ones.

Their direction is flawed? You just admitted to these scientists knowing more about the subject than yourself, and then you proclaim that they've got it all wrong without even explaining why, and they should have spent their time "researching why other avenues are not used"... What avenues?

I really dont think you guys understand the issue, and I really wish you'd do some more reading on the subject before you post this crap.

Here is another link to get you started. Ive noticed that some of you dont click and read them so Ive provided an excert: "A study has shown that one-third of the homeless are people living with mental illness; for example, 75 percent of homeless single women suffer from a mental disorder. Many of those on the street with mental illness or addictions are homeless because they have been discharged from hospitals or jails without proper community resources. There are few adequate plans to support their reintegration into community life once discharged from institutions. In addition, drug-use, alcohol and gambling addictions contribute to persons becoming or remaining homeless."

I'll read your link, but before I do ...

I'll repeat for you. If these people really wanted to make a change they would use the services available to them, of which there are many. You can keep leading these horses to water, but unless they want to take a drink you'll never be able to help them. There's already plenty of services available to help these people out there, but unless they want the help and they see it through they'll keep reverting back. I say the efforts of the scientists were misdirected because there are already services available. We don't need more. Their time would best checking where the direction of thw existing system is off or why people aren't successful. I guarantee you a drink a day is not the solution. There needs to be a systemic solution, not an alcoholic one. I submit that more drugs is not the answer, rather teaching those in question how to exist without them.

Alas, there's only so far we can go before we deem that people are beyond help. While I think that the hearts of people that propose such programs are in the right place, and their compassion is world class, they're failing to understand there's got to be a line where we stop until people willingly participate in their own rehabilitation because they want to beat whatever problems they have, not because they know there's another drink, another injection, a warm bed or a hot meal in it for them. Please understand that I am sympathetic to their plight. But I fail to see how wasting time, money and other resources on those who aren't helping themselves helps anything. For those that want to help themselves, the resources are already there. Perhaps homeless advocates should be out there fighting to make homeless people are aware of the resources at their disposal and assisting them in getting started instead of starting still more programs.

[uOttawaMan]

I think Jack Layton should cross the floor and join the Conservatives. Make him Minister of Public Works.