betsy Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 This word is being thrown at the Conservative Party, quite loosely by Liberal supporters, that I decided to look for the meaning myself. If that word is meant to shock into fear - to scare -....well, lo and behold: According to Webster: Fascism is a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism and militarism, etc., Right now, we already have two characteristics of Fascism under the current regime. But I would not call this government "fascist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honest Politician Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Go read Harpers old speeches. You just gave a pretty accurate description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Go read Harpers old speeches. You just gave a pretty accurate description. Harper is centre-right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Go read Harpers old speeches. You just gave a pretty accurate description. Got a link for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 He is no such thing. He doesn't believe in strong governmental control of the economy, and has shown no signs of forcible suppression of opposition and is not anti-democratic. This just gets in the way of defining him for what he really is: a neoconservative with some social libertarian views. The Liberal Party fits that definition of fascism better than the CPC, but I wouldn't call them that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honest Politician Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Go read Harpers old speeches. You just gave a pretty accurate description. Harper is centre-right. HAhahahahahahahaha. If he is centre right why did he co-found a little ultra-right-wing party called The Reform Party? Why was he a speaker at a far right conservative conference for what even americans feel is an Extreme right wing group of individuals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Harper is by no means centre-right. He's about as right wing as they come in Canada, along the lines of David Frum, but calling him a fascist is plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Go read Harpers old speeches. You just gave a pretty accurate description. I will gladly read them.....although I already have an idea what I will find. I had listened to Harper last year, and I liked what I heard. Anyway, what concern me most is what is happening right NOW, with our CURRENT government which had been in power for 12 years. This current government had displayed two of the characteristics listed above....plus the endless PATTERN of corruptions and scandals. With the direction this CURRENT regime is leading the country, along with the endless pattern of corruptions and scandals that are erupting all around me....you expect me to ignore these? And worry instead about the "what-if" scenarios about the Conservatives...scenarios that are interpreted for us by the Liberals? I say, ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Go read Harpers old speeches. You just gave a pretty accurate description. Harper is centre-right. HAhahahahahahahaha. If he is centre right why did he co-found a little ultra-right-wing party called The Reform Party? Why was he a speaker at a far right conservative conference for what even americans feel is an Extreme right wing group of individuals? He was more right-wing AS HEAD OF A LOBBYIST GROUP. Oh come on guys, do you really hate him that much? Harper is by no means centre-right. He's about as right wing as they come in Canada, along the lines of David Frum, but calling him a fascist is plain stupid. Harper is a moderate right-leaning conservative. Calling him "far right" and "fascist" is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honest Politician Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Harper speech Harper in his own words Fascism is a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship: The PCPC and Reform couldn't work together and were merged into what appears to be a dictatorship where candidates are not allowed to talk about certain issues. forcible suppression of opposition, Belinda had enough balls to get up and walk. If MacKay had any he would have left to, instead he stands there like beaten animal, trying to figure out how he got screwed out of having his own party, and not even getting a voice in the new one. private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, Privatization is a hallmark of conservative beliefs. belligerent nationalism, Belligerent would be a point of view. "God Bless Canada" IMO isn't. racism when dealing with a large group of individuals, there are bound to be one or two bad apples in every party, and every political spectrum. and militarism, etc.,Well Harper sure does want to increase the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 If Harper was into forcible suppression of opposition, Belinda would be dead. And yes, he's for privatization, but not under the fascist central government control model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Harper speechHarper in his own words Fascism is a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship: The PCPC and Reform couldn't work together and were merged into what appears to be a dictatorship where candidates are not allowed to talk about certain issues. forcible suppression of opposition, Belinda had enough balls to get up and walk. If MacKay had any he would have left to, instead he stands there like beaten animal, trying to figure out how he got screwed out of having his own party, and not even getting a voice in the new one. private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, Privatization is a hallmark of conservative beliefs. belligerent nationalism, Belligerent would be a point of view. "God Bless Canada" IMO isn't. racism when dealing with a large group of individuals, there are bound to be one or two bad apples in every party, and every political spectrum. and militarism, etc.,Well Harper sure does want to increase the military. Rigid one party government? Sounds like the LPC to me., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 The libs got elected democratically and they may very well fall democratically on Jan 23, so they don't qualify either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 The libs got elected democratically and they may very well fall democratically on Jan 23, so they don't qualify either. We know Chretien bought the 1997 election with dirty sponsorship money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River_God Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Can you believe that these guys at the Free Dominion. blocked my access to their forum? It only took 5 minutes. The site says that it only accepts pro-conservative discussion but it calls itself the Free Dominion. What a bunch of Twisted Double-Think Fascists. http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopi...p=604951#604951 I think this is a sign of things to come if fanatics like Harper get in power. Abraham Lincoln said that "if you want to test a man's character, give him power." my guess is that Harper, like Bush, would be racing toward armaggeddon or, at best, a Canadian Inquisistion if he had his way. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us years from now. Richard Perle (Iraq war architect, key Bush Pupeteer, Stephen Harper soulmate and self proclaimed Darth Vader) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 You can't buy an election. That implies that the vote was tainted. They just stole money that they used towards the election: it could have still gone either way. The reason they won was simply because the right was in total disarray at that point. If you could buy an election, the CPC will surely win this one because Harper is continually bragging about how much cash they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 You can't buy an election. That implies that the vote was tainted. They just stole money that they used towards the election: it could have still gone either way. The reason they won was simply because the right was in total disarray at that point. If you could buy an election, the CPC will surely win this one because Harper is continually bragging about how much cash they have. Dirty sponsorship money was used by the Chretien government in 1997 here in Quebec to ensure a Liberal majority government. What is unknown is: 1) What ridings they were used in. 2) How many ridings Chretien authorized their use in. 3) Whether Martin knew or not. The vote was tainted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Harper speech Harper in his own words Fascism is a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship: The PCPC and Reform couldn't work together and were merged into what appears to be a dictatorship where candidates are not allowed to talk about certain issues. forcible suppression of opposition, Belinda had enough balls to get up and walk. If MacKay had any he would have left to, instead he stands there like beaten animal, trying to figure out how he got screwed out of having his own party, and not even getting a voice in the new one. private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, Privatization is a hallmark of conservative beliefs. belligerent nationalism, Belligerent would be a point of view. "God Bless Canada" IMO isn't. racism when dealing with a large group of individuals, there are bound to be one or two bad apples in every party, and every political spectrum. and militarism, etc.,Well Harper sure does want to increase the military. Rigid one party government? Sounds like the LPC to me., Oh yes, it does really sound like the Liberals. The propaganda machine, such as the CBC, are giving biased information...and they're funded by taxpayers money. Martin tried to stop the reporters from bringing up the scandals and corruption issues....lucky some journalists refused to be dictated to. There is a mild form of censorship in practically everything to say....this so-called "political-correctness." Banning of old classical books and plays...just because they're no longer politically correct. Reality that exists from the past are being changed that they no longer paint an accurate picture of what really transpired or what had happened. Parts of history is other words, is being re-written. When the PM bypassed Parliament, and instead gave the task to the courts (which had Liberal-appointed judges) to decide on a traditional definition which held deep meaning for the majority....and he did this knowing some of his own MPs are opposed to his will...I can easily interpret that as a forcible suppression of the opposition. centralized government control....to me, that easily translates into MONOPOLY. belligerent nationalism - I must say, the behaviours of some of the ministers and prominent members of the Liberal Party, went overboard in their belligerent and shameful displays of anti-Americanism. If we are trying to show the world that we are far more superior than the USA, then it was the wrong way to show it. They could have at least did it in a progressive way. Don't we teach our children manners and social courtesy? racism - I think we are very anti-Americans...and very hurtful and downright blunt in saying so. If we say the things we say to Americans to that of other races or ethnic groups, we'd be hauled infront of the tribunal. If we have disagreements with our neighbors, there should be a more positive way of expressing them. Spouting insults like drunken hussies in street alleys does not do Canada any good. See? I know that some will disagree with me....but see? If we want to, we can easily see what we want to see, right? We can easily put meanings to every gestures and every utterance to suit our wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Too many Canadians (especially voters from the far left in Vancouver, Ontario, and the Maritimes) live the Canadian lie of anti-Americansim. In reality, we are very much like the Americans, we are just "embarassed" of this because the world hates the Americans. Oh Canada, the U.S. stands on guard for thee and we are so ungrateful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 But please, don't insult what little intelligence I have by distracting me from the real issue why I would like a change of government. To me, it's just this simple: I don't like the direction the current government is leading this nation. I'm tired of paying high taxes just to see the money wasted and line the pockets of Liberal cronies. I'm tired of being hood-winked. The amount of corruptions and scandals that had come out in the last year alone is mind-boggling. These are serious symptoms of a sick nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 But please, don't insult what little intelligence I have by distracting me from the real issue why I would like a change of government.To me, it's just this simple: I don't like the direction the current government is leading this nation. I'm tired of paying high taxes just to see the money wasted and line the pockets of Liberal cronies. I'm tired of being hood-winked. The amount of corruptions and scandals that had come out in the last year alone is mind-boggling. These are serious symptoms of a sick nation. betsy I am not insulting your intelligence, just stating other facts... We are on the same side here!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 But please, don't insult what little intelligence I have by distracting me from the real issue why I would like a change of government. To me, it's just this simple: I don't like the direction the current government is leading this nation. I'm tired of paying high taxes just to see the money wasted and line the pockets of Liberal cronies. I'm tired of being hood-winked. The amount of corruptions and scandals that had come out in the last year alone is mind-boggling. These are serious symptoms of a sick nation. betsy I am not insulting your intelligence, just stating other facts... We are on the same side here!!! Oh sorry, my post was not directed at you, tml12. I just posted this as a separate reply, in answer to all those who are bringing up what is to me such petty issues. I guess you beat me at posting, thus I ended up under yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River_God Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Too many Canadians (especially voters from the far left in Vancouver, Ontario, and the Maritimes) live the Canadian lie of anti-Americansim. I don't know anybody who is anti-American, but neo-con fanatics want us to think that it's anti-American to say anything bad about any member of their government. Look at all the politician bashing on this forum. By that definition, everybody here is anti-Canadian. The fact that people are standing up to political decisions shows that they have faith that their countries can become better. You are right though that people should be providing creative solutions to problems, instead of just mud-slinging. The worst thing to do is to take a fanatical-reactionary approach where you end up throwing out the baby with the bath water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eureka Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Betsy, your intelligence cannot be insulted if ir is measured by your repetition of the :high tax" lies and you believe them. Canada is a low taxed country in the ranking of Western democracies. I have given the comparisons and I am not going to bother with them again. If you keep saying thise knowing the facts, then what does that say for you.If you cannot understand the simple comparisons and the rankings in our comparative countries, then what does that say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 To me, it's just this simple: I don't like the direction the current government is leading this nation. I'm tired of paying high taxes just to see the money wasted and line the pockets of Liberal cronies. I'm tired of being hood-winked. The amount of corruptions and scandals that had come out in the last year alone is mind-boggling. These are serious symptoms of a sick nation. Perhaps a little too simplistic.... Tired of paying high taxes... Well, what do you get for them.... Think about people living in a third world country.. or second world country.... even a lot of first world countries... How much of their day they would be willing to work for the government (taxes) to ensure that they had full health care (including expensive stuff like heart transplants), clean safe water, safe streets to go out onto... If you look at what happened in Ontario with Mike Harris's tax cuts, it is very surprising.... Aside from the obvious gutting of health care, longer wait times for health care, people dying due to un-treated water due to privatization, the poverty level that it puts the most vulerable at.... . .. aside from these... the average homeowner gets a few hundred dollars less taxation... well, not exactly, because taxes were cut too far... so every working person has to pay $300/year health tax.... And due to the shifting of social services onto the municipal budgets, everybody's property taxes went up..... with the net effect of higher taxes for the lower and middle income earners, loss of services, many health-care services becoming "pay for" services now... But Corporate Ontario pays a whole lot less taxes.... So who got hoodwinked in Ontario..... The idiots who fell for the Conservative "tax cuts" agendas.... Ontario was fooled by the "lower tax" Conservatives.... Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, Shame on me..... By the way..... You could vote NDP... I am. One of the key elements common to any of the Facist regimes that have held power is that they have no tolerance for organized labour... at all.... So which of the three parties is most "anti-union"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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