Legalization and decriminalizatiopn failed: Proposed B.C. law would make drug use illegal in almost all public spaces

[Nexii]

Criminalization also failed, though. We don't have and can't afford the prison space. Sure we can put more laws in the books but it won't change that reality. 

Mostly it's a poverty and mental health issue. Drugs are just the symptom. People with jobs and good family lives generally don't decide they'll go and ruin their lives with drugs. 

But yea, the safe sites thing is a mere bandaid on this problem that's more like a gushing wound. We're in a period of extreme stagflation. We also can't afford mental health support. Waitlists are so long (2+ years around here) that we might as well fold and say we can't help everyone. 

It'll just get worse until the economy gets better

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Criminalization also failed, though. We don't have and can't afford the prison space. Sure we can put more laws in the books but it won't change that reality. 

Well, we can afford the prison space and that's not a real issue. But - agreed that criminaliztion itself has not solved the problem (tho it does seem it was a LITTLE better)

I think that the successful model will likely be a combination of criminalization with the option of treatment.  in other words - you've broken the law and you must now either serve time in jail (longer each time) OR agree to treatment and they'll let you out when they feel you've got the addiction under control,  Combined with societal reintegration services to make sure they can get jobs etc.

You obviously cant just expect everyone to deal with it on their own (tho surprisingly that is one of the more successful ways it work), You have to provide a path. But encouraging it is not working.

[Nexii]

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well, we can afford the prison space and that's not a real issue. But - agreed that criminaliztion itself has not solved the problem (tho it does seem it was a LITTLE better)

I think that the successful model will likely be a combination of criminalization with the option of treatment.  in other words - you've broken the law and you must now either serve time in jail (longer each time) OR agree to treatment and they'll let you out when they feel you've got the addiction under control,  Combined with societal reintegration services to make sure they can get jobs etc.

You obviously cant just expect everyone to deal with it on their own (tho surprisingly that is one of the more successful ways it work), You have to provide a path. But encouraging it is not working.

I think you vastly underestimate how much it costs to imprison someone today in Canada. It costs $120,000 annually which is a staggering sum. It would cost many billions to imprison everyone who overdoses. And that much more again if you want law enforcement to seriously go after the dealers. Police and judges are not free.

And after all those billions, it won't really reduce drug abuse at all. Look at the USA for example. They enforce it all hard and despite all that, their death rates are even higher than Canada per capita. 

High stagflation plus closing all the asylums instead of reforming them has lead to this point. 

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, Nexii said:

I think you vastly underestimate how much it costs to imprison someone today in Canada. It costs $120,000 annually which is a staggering sum.

There's nothing remotely staggering about that and no, i didn't underestimate it   It's actually surprisingly cheap - even 15 years ago the number was closer to 92 thousand, so with inflation it's done better than most things in canada.

Bad guys cost money. One way or another. But lets be clear - that is less expensive than having them out on the streets committing crimes, using up social services and medical resources.

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And that much more again if you want law enforcement to seriously go after the dealers. Police and judges are not free.

These guys are already consuming those resources daily. Violent shoplifting, b and e's, all matter of petty theft and crime and violence.  And massive amounts of hospital resources - guess how much that costs. Etc etc etc.

Sorry - if you thought they were costing us nohting on the streets you were sadly mistaken.

24 minutes ago, Nexii said:

High stagflation plus closing all the asylums instead of reforming them has lead to this point. 

It sure as hell didn't help but going soft on drugs as we have for years has made it bad too.

And now our violent crime is through the roof on top of it. And drugs play a large role with that. What's the dollar value you're putting on random innocent people getting killed?

The best thing we can do is lock these people up and give them a simple choice - rehab indefinitely till they are able to cope, or be declared a criminal and behind bars you go and if we see you back here more than a certain number of times - you stay till we have reason to believe you've learned your lesson (especially for violent crimes.