I do, I do, I do

[PocketRocket]

'Mornin', RB:

I think you're painting a lot of men (or at least trying to) with the same brush.

The reasons that some men will order a mail-bride are as varied as the number of men who place such orders.

I've seen suggestions ranging from painfully-shy guys, who simply don't have the nerve to ask someone out on a date, to guys who want women they can easily dominate.

My personal tendency would be to go with the former suggestion.

Guys who simply want to "dominate" women are generally boorish louts who, because of their feelings of "superiority" over women, have no trouble approaching women. (There are, of course, exceptions to this.)

The "domination" generally comes afterwards.

All speculation aside (because ultimately, speculation is all we are doing here), the only way to get accurate answers is to ask the guys who actually do the mail-order thing.

It's such a miniscule percentage of the population that I don't even see it as a legitimate political issue, simply one for casual conversation having curiosity value.

As for this......

It’s a shame about this unconscious pressure to view your penis as who you are.

.....the same can easily be said about women considering their bustline to be "who they are". Consider that breast-augmentation is perhaps the single, most popular form of cosmetic surgery, and you get the idea.

[Yodeler]

I mean when men were asked whether they rather be 5'2" in height with 7" penis or 6'2" in height with a 3" penis.  62% of males picked the 7" penis only 36% picked 3".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, here in Vancouver, most young men can only afford to buy and live in a tiny 400 sqare foot one bedroom place ... and THEIR main reason why they'd rather be a foot shorter is because they figure that that way the apartment would be much easier to maneuver.

[RB]

The internet is making mail order brides easier. Sorry, mail order brides need attention for the mere fact that first this is a big profitable business and it involves women.

Secondly, despite the romanticism that you folks want to give me about the males, all I can agree with is the ladies do want to get out of poverty and hardship BUT this does not necessarily translate to pleasing men.

Thirdly, men force these women to pay for services they bought. And men are able to exploit their brides since they will face cultural, linguistic and economic barriers.

Fourthly, mail order brides leave their marriages 3 months after they obtain their residency in the foreign countries and in the case of the US means 2 years in receipt of non-conditional permanent residency.

Then they petition for parents and siblings to arrive.

A study done at the University of Texas on 265 subscribers of mail-order bride catalogues concluded that "very many of them had extremely bitter experiences with divorce or breakups or engagements." The males were politically conservative and socially alienated

There were:

• typically white (94%),

• highly educated (50% with two or more years of college)

• 6% with M.D.'s or Ph.D's,

• only five did not complete high school

• politically and ideologically conservative (56% identified themselves as conservative), and

• generally economically and professionally successful (64% earned more than 20,000 U$ per year,

• 42 were in professional or managerial positions

• The median age of the men was 37.

• 57 divorce married once and divorce after 7 years

I of course challenge this mail order practice because it undoes women freedom and really works against women strive for equality

It is not alright to import women because of some perception that they will be demur, docile, submissive, produce children and have them live in the middleages.

[Melanie_]

Sparhawk - sorry it has taken me so long to respond - my first grandchild finally arrived!

You make good points, and I don't dispute that the laws sometimes are unfair to fathers. My view is that the father's committment is to his child, not to his ex, so the scenarios you cited are obviously unfair - if he is supporting his child, that should be enough.

As for the children who are not biologically his, again I think it depends on the case. If he has taken on the role of father in the child's life, if the child has grown up thinking he is his/her dad, it isn't fair to the child for him to just walk away. The child has no say in the matter, and has no concept of why the person they have come to trust and depend on is now rejecting them. Relationships aren't as disposable when children are in the mix, and any man entering into a relationship with a woman who has a child needs to do so with his eyes open. The same goes for the mother - sometimes single moms are too quick to allow that relationship between their child and their current boyfriend to develop. It is damaging to a kid to have a revolving door of dads.

[Riverwind]

As for the children who are not biologically his, again I think it depends on the case. If he has taken on the role of father in the child's life...

I think we can agree that each case needs to be judged on its merits and there can be no one size fits all solution. Unfortuanately, the law and judges introduce arbitrary rules that must be followed even if they are blantently unfair. The situation is aggravated by the large of number of people out their that seem to think that women are never to blame for a relationship failure and that the man someone 'deserves' whatever happens to him.

[August1991]

Why are men hitting overseas to find brides - isn't this the same as the arranged marriage practiced by the Indian culture

Aren’t there enough potential North American mates to choose from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ted: Japan? What's she doing in Japan?

Pat Healy: Well, you've heard of mail-order brides? Well, they go that way too.

Ted: What, are they desperate? She's a whale!

Pat Healy: You can't forget, it's a sumo culture, Ted. They pay by the pound over there. Sorta like, um, tuna.

Something About Mary

[PocketRocket]

Traditional = demise of all women

Sorry RB, I gotta disagree.

Some women want to get into a career. Some women want to be housewives.

If it makes you feel better, I have a friend who is a stay-at-home dad, while his wife has the career.

Does the fact that he accepted this role mean it's the first step in the demise of all men???

If not, then it can be no more true than your assertion.

Men are looking for slaves - folks that they can dominate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, you're painting all men with the same broad brush.

Some men want to be dominated (not speaking of sexual habits here, although there's plenty of that as well).

Many men have no problem with having their wives "wear the pants" in the family.

[RB]

PocketRocket Posted Nov 19 2005, 02:37 PM

Some women want to get into a career. Some women want to be housewives.

If it makes you feel better, I have a friend who is a stay-at-home dad, while his wife has the career.

Men returning to work after staying at home with children have a better chance of landing work than women who were out of the workforce looking after children.

Women who say they wish to simply be wives and housewives do not have aims in life and have been seduced to believe in fairy tales. Aims are intellectual motives that every person...women should strive to enhance - the more educated you are they better the choices in life you make.

No intelligent female would say she wishes to stay at home, wash dishes, make babies, sweep, and cook while they wait impatiently for their mates at the door in their French maid outfits.

[Guest eureka]

I would agree about the French Maid outfit: more's the pity. But there are plenty of educated women who think the other part is an acceptable role.

[PocketRocket]

Men returning to work after staying at home with children have a better chance of landing work than women who were out of the workforce looking after children.

Well, even though you have not cited a source for this, I won't argue it as I know enough about you to know that when your mind is made up......

Women who say they wish to simply be wives and housewives do not have aims in life and have been seduced to believe in fairy tales.

I would dispute this on a couple levels.

"Housewife" is one of the oldest, most admirable professions. Who are you to pass judgement on a woman whose main "aim" is to see to her kids being raised right???

I see nothing wrong with a woman taking on this role, or a man.

In fact, I think one of the problems with kids today is the fact that in many families, both parents are working, and don't have time for the kids' questions and emotional needs.

As for the "fairy tales" comment, you are kidding, right???

It's a fairy tale that for untold millenia a woman's accepted role was to raise the kids while the man was the main breadwinner???

It's a fairy tale that many women STILL find this role not only desirable, but HONORABLE???

Sorry, but again you're painting large portions of the population with the same broad brush.

There are billions of people out there, each individual different from all the others.

You would pass judgement on someone simply because their lifestyle choice would be different from yours???

Aims are intellectual motives that every person...women should strive to enhance - the more educated you are they better the choices in life you make.

Staying at home does not preclude being educated.

Who says "education" only happens in school???

Many of the most intelligent and well-informed people in the world never had any formal schooling, they simply read and absorb information.

With the advent of the internet, every snippet of information you could ever want is there for the asking, simply search until you find it.

As for the "better choices" you speak of; what constitutes "better" for YOU, may be anathema to many others.

No intelligent female would say she wishes to stay at home, wash dishes, make babies, sweep, and cook while they wait impatiently for their mates at the door in their French maid outfits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, as stated previously by another, I can't say I agree with the outfit, but then again it would certainly make ME happy coming home to such a sight

But again, a person's level of intelligence cannot be judged by the vocation he or she has chosen to follow.

Don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that.

Oh, and BTW, don't have to "sweep", we have "swiffer" now

[RB]

"Housewife" is one of the oldest, most admirable professions. Who are you to pass judgement on a woman whose main "aim" is to see to her kids being raised right???

who is it that admires the "housewife" - delusional men that want to participate in the fairytale?

I agree that learning can take place independent of schools. But I don't think that is the point I wanted to make. Women need to strive for higher ideals and be other kinds of hero. They need to be true to themselves. Being a housewife does not capitalize on all their talents. The recently divorced women whom we counsel are totally dependent on their spouse.

So now, if I can remind you that a housewife performs relatively simple chores and task unaware that a life exists beyond routine. I mean how complex is their lives if they live in isolation only having to move from one room to another room.

Those housewives you are talking about are the ones who are propelled by men and their trickery and can never see anything lacking in their roles.

Women are not allowed to think for themselves if they are the traditional housewife. In “Playing God on No Sleep,” the Pulitzer–prize-winning Anna Quindlen contends that every mother secretly identified with killing her own children. Andrea Yates did just that, the Texas mother drowned her five young children.

[PocketRocket]

Hi again, RB:

Sorry, but I cannot agree with your black-and-white stance on this.

Perhaps some housewives are coerced into playing that role, but as I stated, many seem to relish it.

My personal circle of friends includes several married couples where the wife has a career.

The same circle of friends includes several couples with a stay-at-home housewife, and the one aforementioned stay-at-home house-husband.

In each case, the stay-at-home partner chose that role for herself (or himself).

In all cases, the stay-at-home partner is quite happy in that role.

All are quite intelligent and informed.

All use a lot of their spare time in staying informed, through reading, internet research, informative/education TV etc etc.

As for your question about "who admires the housewife", well, I would say anyone who has had to play that role for even a short time. Anyone who has had to take care of the kids and clean the house and do the cooking and the laundry, for even a few short days, quite quickly comes to admire the common housewife.

But to each his/her own.

To you, being a housewife seems like a prison sentence.

To others, it is a source of satisfaction, and a desirable vocation.

And between these two black-and-white polar opposites lay every shade of gray.

[RB]

"BUY A BRIDE" - someone's experience

So you've tried meeting and dating American women. You've used some of the sites that charge you by the month to send letters off to women who are listed on the site. Or you've placed your own personal ad and sat there and waited for replies. Now, you think, it's time to try and meet foreign women. The watchwords here are "look out"! You are entering a minefield. If you aren't careful, you will hear the giant sucking sound of your wallet being emptied in your search for your perfect foreign woman.

DISASTERS VS HAPPY ENDINGS

As a younger bloke I went looking for a bride in the Philippines. I'm upfront enough to say that I was driven by insecurities more than I was driven by wanting the particular attributes that asians bring e.g. closeness of family, & I was unprepared for the baggage that growing up in poor country (relative to a developed country) causes. Time & tide work their way and I'm divorced and wiser for the experience.

I was looking at the entertainment Revenues

1996 US Entertainment Industry Revenues

New books

26.10 billion

Magazine publishing

11.18 billion

Sex industry

9.00 billion

Strip clubs

2 billion

Recorded music

8.15 billion

Film industry

5.90 billion

Theatre, ballet, opera

1.69 billion

Computer gaming

1.10 billion

It is obvious folks are very interested sex. These are the countries most desirable for mail order brides, countries of the former Soviet Union, Latin America (Columbia, Honduras, Costa Rica and Panama), India (North and South India), the Philippines

[PocketRocket]

It is obvious folks are very interested sex. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not everyone is interested in sex......just the people who are breathing

BTW, RB, great link you've provided here.

The author wrote from experience and lent a lot of insight to the situation, without being embittered by his experience, or introducing any irrelevancies.

[Melanie_]

Women who say they wish to simply be wives and housewives do not have aims in life and have been seduced to believe in fairy tales.  Aims are intellectual motives that every person...women should strive to enhance - the more educated you are they better the choices in life you make.

No intelligent female would say she wishes to stay at home, wash dishes, make babies, sweep, and cook while they wait impatiently for their mates at the door in their French maid outfits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, RB, I have to disagree with you on this. I loved being a stay at home mom, and would happily go back to it (but I don't think the French Maid's outfit still fits). I'm lucky enough to have a job that gives me summers off, so I get to go back to it for part of the year, anyway. I didn't really have a problem getting a job when I decided to go back to work, either, although I'll qualify that by saying I had worked many contracts around my children's schedules while I was at home.

I also know many women who say they would love to stay at home, but can't afford it. For many women, working part time would be the ideal.

BTW, the term is "Domestic Engineer", not housewife!

<Edited to add>

Women who are educated can still choose to stay at home, and have this be an intelligent choice. I think the most important word there is "choose". If women want to fight the real fight of feminism, we should be working to erase the artificial standards of the "good mother stays home", the "working mother doesn't really love her children", the "stay at home mom watches Oprah and eats bon bons all day", the "housewife is a second class partner in her marriage". Each of these stereotypes are barriers that women face when trying to make the choice that is best for themselves and their families.

[PocketRocket]

Well said, MELANIE.

But I think you should see if the old french-maid's outfit will still fit

[RB]

Women who say they wish to simply be wives and housewives do not have aims in life and have been seduced to believe in fairy tales.  Aims are intellectual motives that every person...women should strive to enhance - the more educated you are they better the choices in life you make.

No intelligent female would say she wishes to stay at home, wash dishes, make babies, sweep, and cook while they wait impatiently for their mates at the door in their French maid outfits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, RB, I have to disagree with you on this. I loved being a stay at home mom, and would happily go back to it (but I don't think the French Maid's outfit still fits). I'm lucky enough to have a job that gives me summers off, so I get to go back to it for part of the year, anyway. I didn't really have a problem getting a job when I decided to go back to work, either, although I'll qualify that by saying I had worked many contracts around my children's schedules while I was at home.

I also know many women who say they would love to stay at home, but can't afford it. For many women, working part time would be the ideal.

BTW, the term is "Domestic Engineer", not housewife!

<Edited to add>

Women who are educated can still choose to stay at home, and have this be an intelligent choice. I think the most important word there is "choose". If women want to fight the real fight of feminism, we should be working to erase the artificial standards of the "good mother stays home", the "working mother doesn't really love her children", the "stay at home mom watches Oprah and eats bon bons all day", the "housewife is a second class partner in her marriage". Each of these stereotypes are barriers that women face when trying to make the choice that is best for themselves and their families.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a huge disconnect with women staying at home, the divorce, or later becoming single after marriage. They are simply are not cut out to be successful immediately. They lack confidence, up to date skills, education and cannot compete effectively in the marketplace.

I operated within the sector of labor and there is a consistent pattern of hopeless women that do not have much to offer after a divorce. They can only take low wages to survive and manage with the number of kids.

Short of saying the women are also looking for an easy life for men to look after them.

However, as they now aged, they face reality of how much they have lost. First, it shows and then they don't have much to show for it. They were blinded for the mere fact they were a dependant.

By the way, I stayed at home with my kid for the first 3 years until she entered into kindergarden and she is going to enter into university at age 16 - and I am glad I did not have to depend on anyone. It just forces you to look at new survival tools to do well in life and to think as an individual rather than to be persuaded and swayed to live someone's else dream.

I mean having a wife at home is a man's dream.

[PocketRocket]

I mean having a wife at home is a man's dream.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah. My dream is to have a VERY RICH wife who goes out to work, so that I can stay at home

But I'd be willing to settle for moderately wealthy, or even just kind of well-off.

[RB]

I mean having a wife at home is a man's dream.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah. My dream is to have a VERY RICH wife who goes out to work, so that I can stay at home

But I'd be willing to settle for moderately wealthy, or even just kind of well-off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Finding a well-off woman will prove to be a daunting task I assure you. The link provided tells you that women only make 56% of what men earn.

STATUS OF WOMEN IN CANADA

Even if you expand your search with mail order, even worst to find a rich bride.

According to the United Nations Human Development Report 2004: Section 28, Gender, Work Burden, and Time Allocation. Women own only 1 percent of the world's wealth, and earn 10 percent of the world's income, despite making up 49.5 percent of the population.

But, if all men were indeed looking for rich and wealthy female partners it will give women a thing or two to consider. They will definitely have to make major adjustments.

[PocketRocket]

Finding a well-off woman will prove to be a daunting task I assure you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then I guess I better start right away.

So......what do you do for a living????

[RB]

Finding a well-off woman will prove to be a daunting task I assure you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then I guess I better start right away.

So......what do you do for a living????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’m a female impersonator

[PocketRocket]

Finding a well-off woman will prove to be a daunting task I assure you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then I guess I better start right away.

So......what do you do for a living????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’m a female impersonator

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope you're happy. You almost made me blow coffee out my nose.

Hilarious.

[Melanie_]

But I think you should see if the old french-maid's outfit will still fit 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, maybe I could squeeze in to it for a few minutes. It might be tight and uncomfortable, but the benefit of meeting your husband at the door in it is that you won't have it on too long!