Interesting Media Omissions

[I Miss Trudeau]

Second, if he killed someone after surrendering then he is guilty of a crime punishable by execution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't that what trials are for? To determine precisely what occured? Or in this new age, do we simply skip that and accept the accusations of the party with greater power as fact?

[Army Guy]

I suppose he could be considered a POW under categories 1 or 3 here, depending on whether one considers Al Qaeda to be "regular armed forces." I expect that legal arguments would concentrate on whether that is the case.

If this were the case then everyone would fall into that catagory would they not. AL Qaeda does not have a nation, a flag, a goverment, all that would be needed is for them to declare themselfs "Reg Armed forces".

And why have you left out para 2. When dealing with the suggestion of him being a merc you disqualifed him because he did not fulfill all the ART.

On the other hand I doubt he'd be considered a mercenary, on account of condition C here.

( c ) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;

Some food for thought ..He does have a private gain, and in fact he has been promised this by his organization, through constant religious programming.

He has been taught through his religion that if he is to die fighting Infidels all his wishes and desires will be granted by Allah, he will be surrounded by virgins etc etc. Sucide bombers are ensured that there families will be looked after, both financially and with material gains.

I do agree with you he should have his day in a court of law. not by the US but by the Afgan goverment.

Again i ask the question do you need to qualify on every para within the art or just most of them.

At any rate: to those of you who oppose this prosecution, I ask what you'd prefer to see happen. Just send him home so that he can attend highschool in Toronto with other kids his age?

Those that oppose this prosecution are blinded by the fact that western countries see him as just a kid...a child...and yet in the muslim world he is considered an adult...Just a few years ago he was an enemy combatant armed with wpns of war, to kill Infidels like you and me. and given the chance would turn anyone of us into hambuger....

Now that our own media has painted him to be a child, it makes it all right, it's his parents fault "whom i might add" still have custidy of this "child" i mean we have broken family units up for far less have we not ...for crimes less than say putting your child in a war zone in harms way...but we are Canadians all we see is the the big bad US is going prosecute him... nothing else.

Yes, lets have him attending School with your kids, until something happens at school and this kid does what he has been trained to do and kills again. After all he is a kid and is not responsiable for his actions, he has grown-up with a different set of values and morals some better and some not exceptable in our culture.

which brings this question why not allow all those Canadian kids who have committed major crimes free to roam our schools and streets.

This would not be an issue in the muslim world he would be charged and sentence carried out according to muslim tradition. There would be no tears, no finger pionting. We as Canadians are being taken advantage of by this family because we allow them to and the fact we can sit in our living rooms and piont at the US and say you bully.

[Guest eureka]

The article about the wearing of something distinctive has been questioned by international lawyers of recent years. It belongs to another age and other wars between advanced antions. Did the VietCong, for example a;; wear something disitnctive?

He was fighting not for Al Quaeda but for Afghanistan whose inteerst in this coincided with Al Quaefa.

He did not kill a US soldier after surrendering - Argus is right in his assessment of that possibility. He refused to surrender and continued fighting an attacking US unit after his comrades were all killed. He did what soldiers everywhere in every war have always done.

If he is to be tried, it should be by an Afghan Court. It most definitely should not be before a US Military Commissio: an instrument that has no moral standing or legitimacy in International Law.

[err]

At any rate:  to those of you who oppose this prosecution, I ask what you'd prefer to see happen.  Just send him home so that he can attend highschool in Toronto with other kids his age?

-k

I oppose prosecution in a Kangroo court... He is a prisoner of war.... and should be treated as such. Alternately, he should be treated as a minor....

He has undured considerable trauma through his upbringing and experiences, both in the war-zone and in his imprisonment and torture... Releasing him into society would probably not be the best idea without considerable treatment and appropriate custody arrangments.....

[err]

Some food for thought ..He does have a private gain, and in fact he has been promised this by his organization, through constant religious programming.

and maybe by his mommy and daddy when they brought him there....

Those that oppose this prosecution are blinded by the fact that western countries see him as just a kid...a child...and yet in the muslim world he is considered an adult...Just a few years ago he was an enemy combatant armed with wpns of war, to kill Infidels like you and me. and given the chance would turn anyone of us into hambuger....

You said " western countries see him as just a kid...a child..." He is being detained by a western country... who do not see him as a "child", even though he wouldn't be allowed to buy a drink in that country for another 6 years (after the "crime"), allowed to drive a car in that country for at least another year (after the "crime")..... because, according to their definition for their own citizens, he's a kid.....

Now that our own media has painted him to be a child, it makes it all right, it's his parents fault "whom i might add" still have custidy of this "child" i mean we have broken family units up for far less have we not ...for crimes less than say putting your child in a war zone in harms way...but we are Canadians all we see is the the big bad US is going prosecute him... nothing else.

He's in his parent's custody ??? So they're in custody in Guantanamo Bay too... (Actually, I believe that I read his father was killed in Afghanistan).

The fact that his parents are not "good parents" by our definitition does not take away from the fact that the USA's actions are out of line.

This would not be an issue in the muslim world he would be charged and sentence carried out according to muslim tradition.

But he's not in the muslim world right now, is he...

We as Canadians are being taken advantage of by this family because we allow them to and the fact we can sit in our living rooms and piont at the US and say you bully.

Many of us have been doing just that since long before this incident came to light.... and for good reason...

[Argus]

We as Canadians are being taken advantage of by this family because we allow them to and the fact we can sit in our living rooms and piont at the US and say you bully.

Many of us have been doing just that since long before this incident came to light.... and for good reason...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recall an article by a BBC reporter a few years ago in Kabul. This was before 911. He managed to bribe his way into a prison there. It was a small sort of prison, a large, ugly stone building. Deep in the basement was a room where they kept young boys anywhere from 8-15. They'd been there for years, some of them, jammed together, about 50 of them, into a tiny room. There was no light. They were filthy, and had reverted to feral beastial, though very frightened creatures. He talked about the unberable stench when the guards opened the door, how the scurrying, scrambling, half naked young boys tried to get as far from the door as possible, then crouched in the shadows staring at them in fear. Deaths by beating and disease were routine.

This was one small example of the Taliban. And no one cared. This was what Khadr and his family were fighting to not only preserve but spread throughout the world.

But the America haters never cared about them, and they don't care about all the other innocents jammed into horrible prisons throughout the world, from India to China to North Korea to Liberia. Instead their frenzied self-righteous attacks consistently go for the Americans, whos abuses, though they exist, are exceedingly mild in comparison. And in their hearts I'm quite sure many rejoice at every sign of setbacks for the Americans, at every sign the Taliban-like people they call "insurgents" take another step closer to success. I've even seen some of the idiots calling them freedom fighters, as if freedom was on their agenda. I mean, it's like calling the Nazis in pre-war Germany freedom fighters. Except, of course, that I'm probably being unkind to the Nazis.

The barbarians are at the gates, and idiots are cheering them on, blithely ignorant that they themselves would wind up dead or in prisons if the barbarians ever suceeded.

[tml12]

We as Canadians are being taken advantage of by this family because we allow them to and the fact we can sit in our living rooms and piont at the US and say you bully.

Many of us have been doing just that since long before this incident came to light.... and for good reason...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recall an article by a BBC reporter a few years ago in Kabul. This was before 911. He managed to bribe his way into a prison there. It was a small sort of prison, a large, ugly stone building. Deep in the basement was a room where they kept young boys anywhere from 8-15. They'd been there for years, some of them, jammed together, about 50 of them, into a tiny room. There was no light. They were filthy, and had reverted to feral beastial, though very frightened creatures. He talked about the unberable stench when the guards opened the door, how the scurrying, scrambling, half naked young boys tried to get as far from the door as possible, then crouched in the shadows staring at them in fear. Deaths by beating and disease were routine.

This was one small example of the Taliban. And no one cared. This was what Khadr and his family were fighting to not only preserve but spread throughout the world.

But the America haters never cared about them, and they don't care about all the other innocents jammed into horrible prisons throughout the world, from India to China to North Korea to Liberia. Instead their frenzied self-righteous attacks consistently go for the Americans, whos abuses, though they exist, are exceedingly mild in comparison. And in their hearts I'm quite sure many rejoice at every sign of setbacks for the Americans, at every sign the Taliban-like people they call "insurgents" take another step closer to success. I've even seen some of the idiots calling them freedom fighters, as if freedom was on their agenda. I mean, it's like calling the Nazis in pre-war Germany freedom fighters. Except, of course, that I'm probably being unkind to the Nazis.

The barbarians are at the gates, and idiots are cheering them on, blithely ignorant that they themselves would wind up dead or in prisons if the barbarians ever suceeded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know I love how the media makes such a big dead about how he was "brainwashed" and how for that reason alone he should be let go (or spared and live a life like everyone else).

Brainwashed or not, this "little kid" has performed some very adult crimes. In the states, if a 15 year-old U.S. citizen brings a gun to his school and kills a teacher (which recently happened down there) they are tried as an adult and go to jail...for a long time. You don't here people talking about how he was "brainwashed by horror movies" or something like that...and maybe he was just angry.

THIS WAS IN A WAR ZONE REPRESENTING AL-QAIDA...HE IS A TERRORIST.

Jail him for life and make him useful behind bars. He killed soldiers...there really is nothing more to say.

[err]

We as Canadians are being taken advantage of by this family because we allow them to and the fact we can sit in our living rooms and piont at the US and say you bully.

Many of us have been doing just that since long before this incident came to light.... and for good reason...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recall an article by a BBC reporter a few years ago in Kabul. This was before 911. He managed to bribe his way into a prison there. It was a small sort of prison, a large, ugly stone building.

blah, blah (quoting somebody's story)..

......then crouched in the shadows staring at them in fear. Deaths by beating and disease were routine.

This was one small example of the Taliban. And no one cared. This was what Khadr and his family were fighting to not only preserve but spread throughout the world.

But the America haters never cared about them, and they don't care about all the other innocents jammed into horrible prisons throughout the world, from India to China to North Korea to Liberia.

... Good point... Did you read about all of those secret CIA prisons too ???? And nobody cared about those people being tortured by the CIA, because they didn't tell us... Just like nobody cared about

Instead their frenzied self-righteous attacks consistently go for the Americans, whos abuses, though they exist, are exceedingly mild in comparison. And in their hearts I'm quite sure many rejoice at every sign of setbacks for the Americans, at every sign the Taliban-like people they call "insurgents" take another step closer to success.

I can apreciate how you consider the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqis for control of the Iraqi oil is exceedingly mild... The deaths of about 500,000 Iraqis between the two wars because the USA wouldn't allow anyone to bring water purification into Iraq was also exceedingly small, considering how badly they wanted the oil for their friends at Exxon, Chevron, Mobil, (and lets not leave Tony's BP out)

The barbarians are at the gates, and idiots are cheering them on, blithely ignorant

This is a twist... I thought you were pro-american...

[kimmy]

You're not seriously attempting to compare the US to the Taliban on human rights issues, are you? Because if you were, that would be quite entertaining. Please proceed.

-k

[Leader Circle]

We as Canadians are being taken advantage of by this family because we allow them to and the fact we can sit in our living rooms and piont at the US and say you bully.

Many of us have been doing just that since long before this incident came to light.... and for good reason...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recall an article by a BBC reporter a few years ago in Kabul. This was before 911. He managed to bribe his way into a prison there. It was a small sort of prison, a large, ugly stone building.

blah, blah (quoting somebody's story)..

......then crouched in the shadows staring at them in fear. Deaths by beating and disease were routine.

This was one small example of the Taliban. And no one cared. This was what Khadr and his family were fighting to not only preserve but spread throughout the world.

But the America haters never cared about them, and they don't care about all the other innocents jammed into horrible prisons throughout the world, from India to China to North Korea to Liberia.

... Good point... Did you read about all of those secret CIA prisons too ???? And nobody cared about those people being tortured by the CIA, because they didn't tell us... Just like nobody cared about

Instead their frenzied self-righteous attacks consistently go for the Americans, whos abuses, though they exist, are exceedingly mild in comparison. And in their hearts I'm quite sure many rejoice at every sign of setbacks for the Americans, at every sign the Taliban-like people they call "insurgents" take another step closer to success.

I can apreciate how you consider the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqis for control of the Iraqi oil is exceedingly mild... The deaths of about 500,000 Iraqis between the two wars because the USA wouldn't allow anyone to bring water purification into Iraq was also exceedingly small, considering how badly they wanted the oil for their friends at Exxon, Chevron, Mobil, (and lets not leave Tony's BP out)

The barbarians are at the gates, and idiots are cheering them on, blithely ignorant

This is a twist... I thought you were pro-american...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

err,

You are one paranoid person. You should back off the drugs that put you in this state. You certainly have hatred towards the USA. Are you a terrorist? Are you a member of Al Qaida?

This war is not as much about oil as it is about defending our future against terrorist scum. If you say Iraq was fine & noone needed to step in, you are on something!!!

I am sorry if they are your relatives they are killing over there, but that place needed fixing, no matter who does it!

[err]

err,

You are one paranoid person. You should back off the drugs that put you in this state. You certainly have hatred towards the USA. Are you a terrorist? Are you a member of Al Qaida?

This war is not as much about oil as it is about defending our future against terrorist scum. If you say Iraq was fine & noone needed to step in, you are on something!!!

I am sorry if they are your relatives they are killing over there, but that place needed fixing, no matter who does it!

I don't see that I am paranoid. Cynical, perhaps... and not blinded by either hatred or faith.

The war in Iraq (the one I was referring to, with respect to USA's abuses of human rights) is about oil, greed, and power... it has abolutely nothing to do with democracy, WMDs, or helping the Iraqi people. And if you really believe the George Bush phoney baloney stories, I'll have to ask you where you got your drugs from....

The invasion of Afghanistan.... is a different matter..... the USA didn't have to make up phoney stories to invade Afghanistan... they had some justification in that one....

[Argus]

I recall an article by a BBC reporter a few years ago in Kabul. This was before 911. He managed to bribe his way into a prison there. It was a small sort of prison, a large, ugly stone building.

blah, blah (quoting somebody's story)..

......then crouched in the shadows staring at them in fear. Deaths by beating and disease were routine.

This was one small example of the Taliban. And no one cared. This was what Khadr and his family were fighting to not only preserve but spread throughout the world.

But the America haters never cared about them, and they don't care about all the other innocents jammed into horrible prisons throughout the world, from India to China to North Korea to Liberia.

... Good point... Did you read about all of those secret CIA prisons too ???? And nobody cared about those people being tortured by the CIA, because they didn't tell us... Just like nobody cared about

Thank you, err, for being consistent in your contempt for the pain and problems of anyone and everyone who isn't being threatened by the evil Americans. Nothing could better illustrate it than in your replacing a story of how scores of small boys were jammed intoa dungeon for years with "blah blah". And then, of course, without addressing the story, immediately launch into yet another shrill attack against the Americans/

I've said before, and I think this certainly supports the opinioin. Most of those who repeatedly denounce the Americans for their comparatively minor human rights abuses have zero care or interest in the welfare of those whose rights are being abused. They're ideological zealots only using these incidences as a club to yet again scream about the evil, running dog capitalist American imperialists. The cold war might be over, but the mentality survives. Thirty years ago they'd have been braying about the glories of the Soviet Union, which only wanted peace, of course, and how evil and corrupt the yankee imperialists are. They aren't much less of a cliche now.

[Argus]

err,

You are one paranoid person. You should back off the drugs that put you in this state. You certainly have hatred towards the USA. Are you a terrorist? Are you a member of Al Qaida?

This war is not as much about oil as it is about defending our future against terrorist scum. If you say Iraq was fine & noone needed to step in, you are on something!!!

I am sorry if they are your relatives they are killing over there, but that place needed fixing, no matter who does it!

I don't see that I am paranoid. Cynical, perhaps... and not blinded by either hatred or faith.

You are blinded by both ideology and hatred of the Americans. I think most people can see that fairly clearly.

[cybercoma]

err,

You are one paranoid person. You should back off the drugs that put you in this state. You certainly have hatred towards the USA. Are you a terrorist? Are you a member of Al Qaida?

This war is not as much about oil as it is about defending our future against terrorist scum. If you say Iraq was fine & noone needed to step in, you are on something!!!

I am sorry if they are your relatives they are killing over there, but that place needed fixing, no matter who does it!

I don't see that I am paranoid. Cynical, perhaps... and not blinded by either hatred or faith.

The war in Iraq (the one I was referring to, with respect to USA's abuses of human rights) is about oil, greed, and power... it has abolutely nothing to do with democracy, WMDs, or helping the Iraqi people. And if you really believe the George Bush phoney baloney stories, I'll have to ask you where you got your drugs from....

The invasion of Afghanistan.... is a different matter..... the USA didn't have to make up phoney stories to invade Afghanistan... they had some justification in that one....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oil had been an issue for many years before the 90s when they started attacking Iraq.

The issue is about getting a foothold in a part of the world where human rights abuses are only normal. Toppling Hussein and the Taliban (although that was not the objective, it was post war spindoctoring that put that in our heads) gave the United States a launching point on either side of Iran. Slowly but surely, the middle east will be cleaned of the oppressive regimes and manipulative brainwashing idiots that have kept those people down for centuries.

It really is about freedom afterall and it's unfortunate you're too wrapped up in your own paranoid beliefs to realize.

[PocketRocket]

In fact, Khadr pretended to surrender, and then threw the grenade at a US soldier as he approached. That constitutes murder by almost anyone's reckoning, including the geneva convention.

If this is murder then what do you call dropping bombs and cruise missles in areas with large civilian populations?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh... war?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. Does this also apply to bombs which are delivered by hand???

[PocketRocket]

There was an article in the Toronto Star, Argus, laying it all out. There is no question that he had the right to fight for the Taliban - which was the de jure government of Afghanistan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Omar Khadr was captured in July 2002. The Taliban had ceased to be Afghanistan's government in any sense by that time.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the same token, during WWII, in Nazi-occupied France, it could well be said that the french government had "ceased to be".

Does that mean that the french underground could be classified as terrorists simply because they were fighting for the cause of a defunct government???

Same argument applies to Holland, Belgium etc....

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear kimmy,

You're not seriously attempting to compare the US to the Taliban on human rights issues, are you? Because if you were, that would be quite entertaining. Please proceed.

Well, lets say that the Taliban abuses human rights 80% of the time, and the US 5% of the time. (The abuses, such as torture, murder etc. are virtually equal, just the reason for application is different). What in your mind is the balance we should aim for? 50-50? (I would prefer 0-0)

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear PocketRocket,

The whole thing is a mess. There really wasn't a 'war' declared, so some of the applications of the rules are sketchy.

QUOTE(Argus @ Nov 8 2005, 09:15 PM)

QUOTE(Sparhawk @ Nov 8 2005, 08:59 PM)

QUOTE(Argus @ Nov 8 2005, 04:08 PM)

In fact, Khadr pretended to surrender, and then threw the grenade at a US soldier as he approached. That constitutes murder by almost anyone's reckoning, including the geneva convention.

If this is murder then what do you call dropping bombs and cruise missles in areas with large civilian populations?

Uh... war?

Interesting. Does this also apply to bombs which are delivered by hand???

A 'false flag surrender' is punishable by death. Legally. The point is that if someone does it, they jeopardize both the 'goodwill' of the captors and the combatants that still fight, and also open the door to 'reprisals', which are also outlawed.

[err]

Dear kimmy,

You're not seriously attempting to compare the US to the Taliban on human rights issues, are you? Because if you were, that would be quite entertaining. Please proceed.

Well, lets say that the Taliban abuses human rights 80% of the time, and the US 5% of the time. (The abuses, such as torture, murder etc. are virtually equal, just the reason for application is different). What in your mind is the balance we should aim for? 50-50? (I would prefer 0-0)

2 wrongs do not make a right. Because the Taliban are horrible abusers of human rights, does it mean that we should ignore those of the USA ????

I have never made a pro-Taliban, pro-Al Queda, or pro-Saddam statement... Your straw-man arguemts don't address the issue of the USA's handling of this Canadian/Afghani kid....

[err]

Thank you, err, for being consistent in your contempt for the pain and problems of anyone and everyone who isn't being threatened by the evil Americans. Nothing could better illustrate it than in your replacing a story of how scores of small boys were jammed intoa dungeon for years with "blah blah". And then, of course, without addressing the story, immediately launch into yet another shrill attack against the Americans/

Thank you for recognizing that I am consistent, a complement that I'd have a hard time returning... Your very sad story was a "red herring", and in order to reduce the amount of space taken by irrelevant text, I shortened it. The topic was about the USA's abuse of the Canadian youth. Your terribly tragic tale of those abused by the Taliban do not make legitimate the actions of the USA with respect to the youth in question.

Most of those who repeatedly denounce the Americans for their comparatively minor human rights abuses have zero care or interest in the welfare of those whose rights are being abused. They're ideological zealots only using these incidences as a club to yet again scream about the evil, running dog capitalist American imperialists.

I'm sorry that I brought up all the secret CIA prisons that have just come to light, similarly to the prison in the tragic tale you recounted above. Maybe you could help me with this. When the CIA emprisons and tortures foriegners, do they do it in a much more humane fashion, so that these actions cannot be practially compared with those perpetrated by foriegn parties ???

The cold war might be over, but the mentality survives. Thirty years ago they'd have been braying about the glories of the Soviet Union, which only wanted peace, of course, and how evil and corrupt the yankee imperialists are. They aren't much less of a cliche now.

It would appear that more than just the cold-war mentality survives.... so too, it would appear, does Archie Bunker's mentality

[Riverwind]

A 'false flag surrender' is punishable by death. Legally. The point is that if someone does it, they jeopardize both the 'goodwill' of the captors and the combatants that still fight, and also open the door to 'reprisals', which are also outlawed.

Fair enough - but is the evidence that he actually did this? I suspect the only evidence is the testimony from soldiers who arrested him who also probably regret they did not put a bullet hole in his head at the time. That is why he deserves due process even if he is guilty. Everyone assumed Guy-Paul Morin and David Milgaard were guilty as charged because the police said so.

[Argus]

In fact, Khadr pretended to surrender, and then threw the grenade at a US soldier as he approached. That constitutes murder by almost anyone's reckoning, including the geneva convention.

If this is murder then what do you call dropping bombs and cruise missles in areas with large civilian populations?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh... war?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. Does this also apply to bombs which are delivered by hand???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To legitimate military targers, yes.

[Argus]

There was an article in the Toronto Star, Argus, laying it all out. There is no question that he had the right to fight for the Taliban - which was the de jure government of Afghanistan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Omar Khadr was captured in July 2002. The Taliban had ceased to be Afghanistan's government in any sense by that time.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the same token, during WWII, in Nazi-occupied France, it could well be said that the french government had "ceased to be".

Does that mean that the french underground could be classified as terrorists simply because they were fighting for the cause of a defunct government???

Same argument applies to Holland, Belgium etc....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did the French underground set off massive explosions in markets? Seems to me they generally confined their activities to shooting German soldiers, SS, gestapo and the like, and blowing up military trains and convoys.

And as long as you're making a moral argument. There is a vast difference between fighting against a brutal dictator ,and fighting in favour of a brutal dictatorship. The Americans want to instill democracy and leave. The terrorists hate democracy (they have said so) and want a brutal theocracy which rules by Sharia law.

[Argus]

Dear kimmy,

You're not seriously attempting to compare the US to the Taliban on human rights issues, are you? Because if you were, that would be quite entertaining. Please proceed.

Well, lets say that the Taliban abuses human rights 80% of the time, and the US 5% of the time. (The abuses, such as torture, murder etc. are virtually equal, just the reason for application is different). What in your mind is the balance we should aim for? 50-50? (I would prefer 0-0)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I've heard I'd say the Taliban was closer to 100% And while I generally frown on physical persuasion, there is a moral difference between the type generally employed by the US and Israelis (for example) which consists of things like forcing people to stand up for long periods of time, go without sleep, etc., and the more traditional Arab methods like shoving hot irons into their eyes and asses.

The US also does not knowingly go after innocents, while to the Tablian types there are no innocents. Which is why they have no problem murdering journalists, clerics, schoolgirls, washerwomen, construction workers, or whomever.

[Argus]

Dear kimmy,

You're not seriously attempting to compare the US to the Taliban on human rights issues, are you? Because if you were, that would be quite entertaining. Please proceed.

Well, lets say that the Taliban abuses human rights 80% of the time, and the US 5% of the time. (The abuses, such as torture, murder etc. are virtually equal, just the reason for application is different). What in your mind is the balance we should aim for? 50-50? (I would prefer 0-0)

2 wrongs do not make a right. Because the Taliban are horrible abusers of human rights, does it mean that we should ignore those of the USA ????

I have never made a pro-Taliban, pro-Al Queda, or pro-Saddam statement...

But have you ever made anti Taliban, anti-Al Quaeda, or anti-Saddam statements? I have bitched about the abuses of human rights in North Korea, in India, in China, and in many other places. And I have probably been as critical of George Bush as anyone on this site. But there is a scale of things, and the Americans are small scale when it comes to human rights abuses. So while it does concern me, to a degree, it doesn't drive me to distraction the way it does the lefties who hate America.