Looks like we're going to the polls.

[ScottBrison]

Looks like we're going to have a fight on our hands.

Bring it on.

[fellowtraveller]

More pathetic gamesmanship from Smiling Jack.

You can't prop up the Liberals while at the same time condemning them for corruption. It demonstrates contempt for the public, and the NDP will pay for that cute little game.

link

[tml12]

More pathetic gamesmanship from Smiling Jack. 

You can't prop up the Liberals while at the same time condemning them for corruption.  It demonstrates contempt for the public, and the NDP will pay for that cute little game.

link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry I am sure the Liberals will figure out something.

They don't want to go to the polls or risk losing the government while the Conservatives are within margin of error.

[ScottBrison]

More pathetic gamesmanship from Smiling Jack. 

You can't prop up the Liberals while at the same time condemning them for corruption.  It demonstrates contempt for the public, and the NDP will pay for that cute little game.

link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry I am sure the Liberals will figure out something.

They don't want to go to the polls or risk losing the government while the Conservatives are within margin of error.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

[Argus]

More pathetic gamesmanship from Smiling Jack.  

You can't prop up the Liberals while at the same time condemning them for corruption.   It demonstrates contempt for the public, and the NDP will pay for that cute little game.

link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry I am sure the Liberals will figure out something.

They don't want to go to the polls or risk losing the government while the Conservatives are within margin of error.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? Do you think he would be corrupt and incompetent? Your heros have already provided us with that.

[shoop]

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enough with the trolling. Do you actually think Harper is evil? Do the rules of the forum not apply to you?

[ScottBrison]

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enough with the trolling. Do you actually think Harper is evil? Do the rules of the forum not apply to you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why else would I say it if I didn't believe it? And if the rules of the forum prevent me from expressing my opinion, that's fucked up.

And yes, I think someone who wants to subjugate an entire group of people based on something THEY ARE BORN WITH is evil.

[ScottBrison]

More pathetic gamesmanship from Smiling Jack. 

You can't prop up the Liberals while at the same time condemning them for corruption.  It demonstrates contempt for the public, and the NDP will pay for that cute little game.

link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry I am sure the Liberals will figure out something.

They don't want to go to the polls or risk losing the government while the Conservatives are within margin of error.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? Do you think he would be corrupt and incompetent? Your heros have already provided us with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So incompetent they've managed time and again to outmanouver your heroes in parliamentary procedure, so incompetent they've taken the country from the wasteland that were the Mulroney years and rebuilt it.

As for corruption, as I have said multiple times, I knew the Conservative supporters wouldn't support Gomey's conclusion unless he somehow managed come come up with their pipe dream "Every Liberal is guilty just because they're a Liberal" scenario.

[Chimera]

fellowtraveller Posted Today, 04:07 PM

  More pathetic gamesmanship from Smiling Jack.

You can't prop up the Liberals while at the same time condemning them for corruption. It demonstrates contempt for the public, and the NDP will pay for that cute little game.

He has said that his party will not support the Liberals in a confidence motion. And technically, they haven't "propped up" the Liberal government since the confidence motion in the spring.

What I find interesting is that now Harper is saying that the conservatives won't table a confidence motion on his opposition day, that now he wants Jack to do that. The last time the conservatives were this high in the polls, they were clamoring for an election.

Looks like a bit of wisdom from the right in not wanting to piss off the public with a holiday election.

[I Miss Trudeau]

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Theres no chance of that happening. Nothing will cool the Conservative's poll numbers like the actual possibility of them forming government. Particularly when that shining exemplar of principle, Mr. Harper, has all but declared his previous actions to be unethical andhas yet to formally declare his campaign finances from the last election (I wonder why?. Look for all of this to become oft repeated if the government falls.

Anger at the Liberals will be very quickly replaced with horror at the idea of a Conservative government.

[shoop]

He has said that his party will not support the Liberals in a confidence motion.  And technically, they haven't "propped up" the Liberal government since the confidence motion in the spring.

What I find interesting is that now Harper is saying that the conservatives won't table a confidence motion on his opposition day, that now he wants Jack to do that.  The last time the conservatives were this high in the polls, they were clamoring for an election.

Looks like a bit of wisdom from the right in not wanting to piss off the public with a holiday election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harper has been saying he doesn't trust Layton since Layton screwed him around in the spring. You are right about it being a matter of wisdom for the CPC, but the wisdome is that this time the CPC won't fall for the NDs juvenile antics. If the NDs really want an election they are going to have to make the first move.

Why is Buzz Hargrove getting quoted in stories on this? Isn't there somebody else a little more credible and reputable willing to support the Liberals? Ooops, guess not.

[I Miss Trudeau]

What I find interesting is that now Harper is saying that the conservatives won't table a confidence motion on his opposition day, that now he wants Jack to do that.  The last time the conservatives were this high in the polls, they were clamoring for an election.

Looks like a bit of wisdom from the right in not wanting to piss off the public with a holiday election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically, Harper has avoided doing his job as an MP for this entire term. I can't think of any other job where a person could get away with publicly declaring "I don't like my co-workers, so I refuse to do anything!" Thats a tough record to run on.

[shoop]

Theres no chance of that happening. Nothing will cool the Conservative's poll numbers like the actual possibility of them forming government. Particularly when that shining exemplar of principle, Mr. Harper, has all but declared his previous actions to be unethical andhas yet to formally declare his campaign finances from the last election (I wonder why?. Look for all of this to become oft repeated if the government falls.

Anger at the Liberals will be very quickly replaced with horror at the idea of a Conservative government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, truly no idea. The Liberals are going to fight the next election on the basis of what Harper did as the leader of the NCC?

Sounds like a winning strategy there.

Is there nobody left in the party who can think of something a little more realistic?

Scary, scary, scary has worked for the last time. But thanks for coming out...

[I Miss Trudeau]

Wow, truly no idea. The Liberals are going to fight the next election on the basis of what Harper did as the leader of the NCC?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone that resigns as an MP to go work for a lobby organization, and then claims that if he becomes PM, will pass a law prohibiting former MP's from lobbying for 5 years is a deceitful hypocrite. Its as simple as that.

Anyone that claims that, if he becomes PM, will reform election finance laws, but as of yet has not reported his campaign funding for the last election is more than a little suspicious.

Why doesn't Harper introduce his nice little package on his next little opposition day? Then he'd have a little credibility.

Sounds like a winning strategy there. 

The thing is, the Liberals don't really have to portray Harper in that way. As long as there are media outlets at Harper's press releases, there will be more than enough to sink Harper, straight from the pastel cowboys lips.

[Argus]

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enough with the trolling. Do you actually think Harper is evil? Do the rules of the forum not apply to you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He thinks anyone who disagrees with him and his heros is evil.

[Argus]

I hope your right about that, if Stephen Harper got his evil little hands on the reigns of power..... God help us all.

Why? Do you think he would be corrupt and incompetent? Your heros have already provided us with that.

So incompetent they've managed time and again to outmanouver your heroes in parliamentary procedure,

It does not surprise me that a Liberal would instinctively crow about the party's success at backroom wheeling and dealing, as if that were the true measure of success, even while the country slides deeper into trouble, with no one of any intellect or honour at the helm. That is because, at heart, Liberals do not and never have cared about Canada, or what happens to it. I've said it before - as far as Paul Martin and his cadre of yes-men are concerned, Canada could sink beneath the waves and they wouldn't care less, just so long as they can milk it for enough stolen funds to live the life of Reilly somewhere else. The Liberals have demonstrated time and time again that the interests of the country as a whole is not even on their radar screens.

so incompetent they've taken the country from the wasteland that were the Mulroney years and rebuilt it.

By er, uhm, by what... oh right, by not scrapping the GST. Can you point to anything else they've done which has taken us from the "wasteland"? Anything? Anything of importance? Chretien was in office for all those years and at the end he was left scrambling around trying to build a museum or a road or something as his "legacy". That is because his entire time as Prime Minister was marked by a bland willingness to do absolutely nothing about this country's pressing concerns and needs so long as the poll numbers were satisfactory.

Chretien didn't care about Canada any more than Martin did.

As for corruption, as I have said multiple times, I knew the Conservative supporters wouldn't support Gomey's conclusion unless he somehow managed come come up with their pipe dream "Every Liberal is guilty just because they're a Liberal" scenario.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was nothing surprising about Gomery's conclusions given the limitations involved. In fact, there was nothing that even qualified as news. The only way he could have implicated Martin and his cadre would have been if more people higher up had been willing to rat on them - or (not much chance of that) Martin actually told the truth.

[Argus]

What I find interesting is that now Harper is saying that the conservatives won't table a confidence motion on his opposition day, that now he wants Jack to do that.  The last time the conservatives were this high in the polls, they were clamoring for an election.

Looks like a bit of wisdom from the right in not wanting to piss off the public with a holiday election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically, Harper has avoided doing his job as an MP for this entire term.

I think you're being extremely unfair to Harper in trying to suggest he is the same as Chretien and Martin.

Except with them, it is the job, duties and responsibilities of Prime Minister they have avoided.

[fellowtraveller]

He has said that his party will not support the Liberals in a confidence motion. And technically, they haven't "propped up" the Liberal government since the confidence motion in the spring.

What I find interesting is that now Harper is saying that the conservatives won't table a confidence motion on his opposition day, that now he wants Jack to do that. The last time the conservatives were this high in the polls, they were clamoring for an election.

Looks like a bit of wisdom from the right in not wanting to piss off the public with a holiday election.

Smiling Jack is really saying " We won't support the Liberals in a confidence motion unless....... they roll over and play dead, again"

And you know the Liberals will debase themselves in whatever way is necessary to delay an election long enough to lull the voters into another Liberal /NDP minority.

So, Duceppe and Harper are doing exactly what any sane person would do : not trust Jack Layton. Note that Layton has not said: "we intend to introduce a motion of non-confidence at the earliest opportunity....." He is still dealing with the Liberals, and will chop his Opposition 'partners ' off at the knees without a second thought. It's the only thing that keeps Jack on TV after all.

[I Miss Trudeau]

There was nothing surprising about Gomery's conclusions given the limitations involved. In fact, there was nothing that even qualified as news. The only way he could have implicated Martin and his cadre would have been if more people higher up had been willing to rat on them - or (not much chance of that) Martin actually told the truth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, in the future we can save a lot of money by simply asking Argus what really happened. No more inquiries, no more criminal trials. Such things will be obsolete in this nation. We'll just get our answers from the oracle of Argus.

[I Miss Trudeau]

So, Duceppe and Harper are doing exactly what any sane person would do : not trust Jack Layton. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats rather elitist of you to say, given that he is far and away the most trusted party leader by a large margin.

[Chimera]

Smiling  Jack is really saying " We won't support the Liberals in a confidence motion unless....... they roll over and play dead, again"

And you know the Liberals will debase themselves in whatever way is necessary to delay an election long enough to lull the voters into another Liberal /NDP minority.

So, Duceppe and Harper are doing exactly what any sane person would do : not trust Jack Layton.  Note that Layton has not said: "we intend to introduce a motion of non-confidence at the earliest opportunity....."  He is still dealing with the Liberals, and will chop his Opposition 'partners ' off at the knees without a second thought.  It's the only thing that keeps Jack on TV after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So then the best possible outcome here for the CPC would be if the Bloc were to table the confidence motion. That way, the public wouldn't be mad at Harper for calling a Christmas election, and Layton would have to follow up on his word or else risk losing voter confidence, and with the reported atmosphere in Quebec right now, Duceppe could take a train trip throughout Quebec, giving them all the finger, and still win hands down.

[tml12]

Smiling  Jack is really saying " We won't support the Liberals in a confidence motion unless....... they roll over and play dead, again"

And you know the Liberals will debase themselves in whatever way is necessary to delay an election long enough to lull the voters into another Liberal /NDP minority.

So, Duceppe and Harper are doing exactly what any sane person would do : not trust Jack Layton.  Note that Layton has not said: "we intend to introduce a motion of non-confidence at the earliest opportunity....."  He is still dealing with the Liberals, and will chop his Opposition 'partners ' off at the knees without a second thought.  It's the only thing that keeps Jack on TV after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So then the best possible outcome here for the CPC would be if the Bloc were to table the confidence motion. That way, the public wouldn't be mad at Harper for calling a Christmas election, and Layton would have to follow up on his word or else risk losing voter confidence, and with the reported atmosphere in Quebec right now, Duceppe could take a train trip throughout Quebec, giving them all the finger, and still win hands down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a good possibility.

[Guest eureka]

What seems to have happened is that Layton, like Martin, has shown that he is streets ahead of Harper and Duceppe in intelligence and political smarts.

In essence, he has said to the Bloc and the Conservatives: "call your motion and the wrath of the electorate will be on your heads." He can fight the election while claiming that he tried to avoid spoiling the holiday season.

Had he wanted an election with credit for it now, he would have moved a non-confidence motion more than a week ago. Then, it could have been held before the middle of December. Late enough to annoy but not of the season.

[August1991]

This is the key quote from the link above:

A skeptical Conservative Leader Stephen Harper wasn't buying Layton's tough talk yesterday, accusing the New Democrats of acting as a "wing" of the Liberal party.

Any confidence motion tabled by the Opposition would be exploited as a bargaining chip, he said.

"The problem has been Mr. Layton sustains them in office and continues to play these negotiations games day after day and week after week," he said.

"I think if Mr. Layton were to make it clear he wants to bring down the government and bring forward a confidence motion so the rest of us aren't hung out to dry, then I suspect we would have an election."

Harper has it right. If Harper now states he'll present a confidence motion, Layton will just use that fact as a bargaining chip in his negotiations with Martin. Harper is best to stay clear of these two. Layton and Martin can play together. Martin will promise NDP policies that will take effect in 5 years time and Layton will claim that he's helping ordinary Canadians.

[i heard the end of the 6 pm CBC radio news whic simply reported that Layton was not supporting the Liberals but Harper was "sceptical". Thanks for the link above which makes plain Harper's scepticism. Trust the CBC to get this wrong.]

Theres no chance of that happening. Nothing will cool the Conservative's poll numbers like the actual possibility of them forming government.

I don't think the scare tactics will work this time. The Left has called wolf a few too many times.

[fellowtraveller]

Thats rather elitist of you to say, given that he is far and away the most trusted party leader by a large margin.

Well, them's the facts.

He is certainly not trusted by his Opposition 'partners', and for good reason. It's his call. Layton has a lot at stake now. If he ends up dealing with Martin now and supporting the government - as he so very desperately wants to do- it will cost him in the April election.