Democracy in the Information Age

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. I don't think most people are like that.
 

2. They are certainly to blame for lying.  

3. A demonstrated falsehood can be proven. For example, his lies when denying the initial G&M story about SNC Lavlin. 

4. But of course, it's our fault for not holding them to the standards we ought to.  

5. not sure if I can directly point to an open lie O'Toole or Singh has uttered but I wouldn't doubt it. I don't regard either as being particularly honest.

 

1.  You're right.  My statement was hyperbolic and I retract it.
2. How many outright lies are there ?  Is it lying when you set it in the context of advertising ?
3. Did he get caught in an actual lie or was it 'fumbled communication' as per various assistance that he can toss in front of him to take the cannonball ?
4. Generally agree.
5. Right.  That's why I would prefer people to generally and slowly phase out the puffery and engage with intelligent citizens rather than pander to those who follow politics for entertainment.

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. How many outright lies are there ?  Is it lying when you set it in the context of advertising ?

We're used to deceptive advertising and false promises. We're used to insinuations about other candidates (all of which I loathe, btw). Outright lies are rare unless they're pretty sure they can't be caught.

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Did he get caught in an actual lie or was it 'fumbled communication' as per various assistance that he can toss in front of him to take the cannonball ?

“The allegations in the Globe story this morning are false,” Trudeau told reporters on Feb. 7. “Neither the current nor the previous attorney general was ever directed by me nor anyone in my office to take a decision in this matter.”

How do you describe that as anything other than a lie?

 

[Michael Hardner]

49 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. We're used to deceptive advertising and false promises. We're used to insinuations about other candidates (all of which I loathe, btw). Outright lies are rare unless they're pretty sure they can't be caught.

2. “The allegations in the Globe story this morning are false,” Trudeau told reporters on Feb. 7. “Neither the current nor the previous attorney general was ever directed by me nor anyone in my office to take a decision in this matter.”

How do you describe that as anything other than a lie?

 

1. Exactly.  We accept 'lies' from politicians just as we accept them from advertisers and maybe lovers. 
"I will make the economy better" "This is the best coffee in town" "You are the only one for me"

2. Is he holding to that ?  I don't doubt that it was dirty but I didn't follow enough to see if he was caught red handed.  Didn't he just throw his Chief of Staff onto the pyre ?

[Argus]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is he holding to that ?  I don't doubt that it was dirty but I didn't follow enough to see if he was caught red handed.  Didn't he just throw his Chief of Staff onto the pyre ?

He never admitted to lying. Never admitted he or his office did anything wrong. In effect, he said "Well yes, we did what I denied doing but we were right to do it!"

https://globalnews.ca/news/5769071/trudeau-snc-lavalin-statements/

[Shady]

The ethics commissioner should rule on lies.  3 lies and you’re automatically banned from office for 10 years.