Attention American forum members

[geoffrey]

How much would Blue Cross cost?

I'll ask the HR people tomorrow at the office. Since it's not a taxable benefit, I have no idea. I know my parents (my father is an contractor) paid about $600 for secondary coverage for our whole family back when I was under their plan. That was a few years ago, I'm sure the price has gone up.

Did you miss the part that it's "GAP" insurance? FYI, that means that it is subsidized by the Government so $400/month is not the full cost…..plus they still get the honor of dishing out a co-pay. I guess you also missed the fact that they are retirees? That means living on a fixed (and very limited) income.

Why do students and young people like myself pay to preserve people that will never be productive for society again? I have no issue with seniors hanging out and playing shuffleboard all day, but I'm not to be paying for it.

I am Canadian and never had private health insurance in Canada. I worked on contract and had no coverage under an employer's health insurance plan yet I was hospitalized due to necessary surgery and did not have to pay the hospital....that was taken care of with my taxes. So, you're wrong, I will not reconsider my cost criticism.

Your lucky. You pay 100% of your prescription drugs, dental costs, eye exams? Did you know that a ride in an ambulance will run you up to $500 within an urban centre, paid in cash within 60 days? Never take an ambulance out of a city, just walk or crawl, they bill by the kilometer. Or that a fibreglass cast for your arm costs $75 in a hospital. Or that a 14 day treatment for pneumonia on antibiotics will cost you $400 or $500.

Rehab costs are rarely covered by the government as well.

Can't be all that much to pass on to the Canadian taxpayer if the settlement is hardly a dime. So, you think that the doctor foots the bill in the US? Ha!! Think again. The doctor's insurance company pays the settlement and the doctor gets hit with higher premiums and these costs are then passed on to their patients.

Good, the doctor should be hit with higher premiums as he's a higher risk. Eventually patients will go, hmm, why is my doctor such a risk that he bills so much... and instead go to a better doctor that doesn't have claims against him.

I guess what I stated in a previous post is accurate; seems like Quebec has their healthcare act together and other provinces can learn from them.

I waited weeks in the US for my non-emergency CT-scan. My sister sees her neurologist in Montreal and gets her MRI the following week because her condition warrants it and there are many others who do as well so why would you not expect to wait while the urgent needs are met? I would not expect an ER to put me at the head of the line with my broken arm while the guy next to me is bleeding profusely.

8-12 hours to see a doctor with a broken arm is absurd.

The Americans will take their money....but only greenbacks; they don't accept Canadian money.

I'll get it changed at the bank.

You said yourself that you can drive ½ or an hour to an alternate ER and be in and out in ½ hour; so, you do have a choice. Such a terrible disaster!!

Again, two tier. Someone without a car would get nothing. Someone without people around to get them there if they can't drive gets nothing.

Are you sure this makes sense? Wouldn’t he have to work rather quickly in order to get through his “quota” in 6 months so he can dash across the border to make his few million? What about the other doctors in his field? Do they drag out their quota so they will have something to do all year long or are they also capable of getting their quota done in 6 months? Do they all go to the US to make millions or do some of them sit around for 6 months with their thumb up their butt?

No, the quotas are just that pathetically small. There aren't many doctors in his field. Many work part-time, including my family doctor, as the funding isn't there for them to do more.

I don’t think that’s the sad part at all. I think the sad part is that some of these great doctors are feeding the theory of the "broken" system. For some, it's all about the money and not about the healing.

He ain't doing much for healing Canadians when he's in the States.

And my experiences are limited to Montreal and the US so I can only compare the two. You can't tell me that there is rationality in a system where the World's most powerful country is incapable of putting in place a system that entitles it's citizens the right to healthcare and, further, is unconcerned that a number of people almost equivalent to the population of Canada have no health insurance.

You have no health insurance and don't seem to mind. If you did a study on Canadians without coverage for things like prescription drugs or ambulance rides or diabeties medication (remember, once you have the disease, good luck finding someone to pay for it), I'm sure you'd find much worse results. Lots of people in Canada think like you, think that the government has your back with health care.

They don't.

I can honestly tell you that I hope to never need urgent, or any, healthcare while in Mexico.

I did after a dehydration episode. Was all IV'ed up and on my way the next morning. I was very impressed by their professionalism. Thankfully I have coverage through my employer for foreign medical care, I have no idea what the bill was.

Fear mongering; fear of what? I know nothing of the system in France, Sweden, Germany, or Ireland but obviously you do. However, even if it is your opinion that Canada has a terrible system compared to those countries, it is my opinion that Canada's system is not the worst in the civilized world.

Fear of change. If you say the words "private health care" in Canada, your setting yourself up to fail in an election. People desperately cling to the sinking ship.

[leonardcohen]

Fear of change. If you say the words "private health care" in Canada, your setting yourself up to fail in an election. People desperately cling to the sinking ship.

Can You say Sacred Cow?

The existence of private clinics coupled with the denial of the government to

acknowledge that,because of this, a two tier system already exists, is unbelievable.

What is it about us that we can't see that such a system,existing side by side does not invalidate

the current system but actually enhances it,imho, is something i don't think i'll

ever understand

Is there any country in the world that has such a conundrum

in regards to their health system?

[BZBee]

I'll ask the HR people tomorrow at the office. Since it's not a taxable benefit, I have no idea. I know my parents (my father is an contractor) paid about $600 for secondary coverage for our whole family back when I was under their plan. That was a few years ago, I'm sure the price has gone up.

$600 for an entire family? Now, that’s cheap compared to $400 (subsidized) for 2 people!!

Why do students and young people like myself pay to preserve people that will never be productive for society again? I have no issue with seniors hanging out and playing shuffleboard all day, but I'm not to be paying for it.

You are speaking of people who were productive to society for many, many years. FYI, my father retired at the young age of 79. Many are unable to play shuffleboard, let alone work. You fail to understand that these are the same people who helped pay for your preservation when you were too young to work. Now it’s your turn to return the favor. I suppose you plan to be productive to society for the rest of your life ? Why don’t we just knock off all old people who we consider a burden to society? So, your implied concern in your statement: “It can take over a year to fix a hip that causes extreme pain and a loss of mobility in a seniors final days” is hypocritical because if you have to help pay for the fix, then it should not happen.

Your lucky. You pay 100% of your prescription drugs, dental costs, eye exams? Did you know that a ride in an ambulance will run you up to $500 within an urban centre, paid in cash within 60 days? Never take an ambulance out of a city, just walk or crawl, they bill by the kilometer. Or that a fibreglass cast for your arm costs $75 in a hospital. Or that a 14 day treatment for pneumonia on antibiotics will cost you $400 or $500.

Sorry, I thought the topic was hospitalization and doctor’s visits. Most healthcare insurance policies in the US do not cover dental and vision; you need different insurance for that. We won’t even start debating the cost of prescription drugs here in the US versus Canada. Prescription drugs are usually covered by health policies here but if a drug is too expensive and no generic is available they won’t cover it.

As I understand it, you’re well aware of the high cost of services yet want the choice to pay for them yourself because it will improve the service and care you get? In the US, those who can afford health insurance complain that doctor’s rush them through because the next deposit into the doctor’s bank account is sitting in the waiting room. Those who don’t have health insurance do not usually see the inside of a doctor’s office.

Good, the doctor should be hit with higher premiums as he's a higher risk. Eventually patients will go, hmm, why is my doctor such a risk that he bills so much... and instead go to a better doctor that doesn't have claims against him.

Doctors and insurance companies don’t advertise when a doctor is hit with a lawsuit. The cost is passed on through higher insurance premiums which cover a variety of services and no one particular doctor or service is singled out as a reason for the cost increase, so patients are generally not aware that they should choose another doctor. And don’t forget, we’re talking about the Lawsuit capital of the world.

8-12 hours to see a doctor with a broken arm is absurd.

I waited 7 hours in an ER here to be seen and Deep Venous Thrombosis (DVT) was suspected.

I'll get it changed at the bank.

Good that you can do that…..so there’s another choice for you. What’s the problem? Don’t tell me about others who can’t afford it…..I’m not convinced of your concern for others (shuffleboarding seniors and all). Besides if those of you who can afford it actually do it, then it may lighten the load on the Canadian healthcare system and allow better care to those who can’t afford it and need it.

Again, two tier. Someone without a car would get nothing. Someone without people around to get them there if they can't drive gets nothing.

See above.

No, the quotas are just that pathetically small. There aren't many doctors in his field. Many work part-time, including my family doctor, as the funding isn't there for them to do more.

So, you want the World to believe that the Canadian government allows people to die while the doctors who can save these lives work part-time? Sounds like the people of Canada need to look into charging the government with a criminal offense.

What field exactly are we talking about?

He ain't doing much for healing Canadians when he's in the States.

My point exactly.

You have no health insurance and don't seem to mind. If you did a study on Canadians without coverage for things like prescription drugs or ambulance rides or diabeties medication (remember, once you have the disease, good luck finding someone to pay for it), I'm sure you'd find much worse results. Lots of people in Canada think like you, think that the government has your back with health care.

What’s your point? So I get this “choice” and I pay $500/month (and that’s a very conservative number) for health insurance to cover what is not covered by healthcare. I pay that amount for let’s say 3 years so that amounts to $18,000.00 and in those 3 years I’ve seen my doctor at least once a year and don’t need any prescription medicine……let’s say I’m healthy (no claims for the doctor’s visits because they are covered under the “system”). At the beginning of year 4, I need to be rushed to the hospital (no charge for hospital under the “system) so I’ve already paid for more than 36 kilometers in an ambulance; 240 fibreglass casts; and more than 36 fourteen days treatments for pneumonia. (In all of my life, I’ve had to use an ambulance once…and that was no where near a 36 kilometer ride.)

Why are there so many Canadians without insurance coverage for drug or ambulance, etc.? If they could have it, would it be such a good thing? I think I would save my money in a “health emergency” fund rather than give it to an insurance company. My experience with insurance companies is that they get greedier and greedier and it is a prime example of paying for others who make claims…..and I am under the impression that you resent this. Tax me.

I did after a dehydration episode. Was all IV'ed up and on my way the next morning. I was very impressed by their professionalism. Thankfully I have coverage through my employer for foreign medical care, I have no idea what the bill was.

You’re one of the lucky ones…..some have not been so fortunate. My friend’s husband wasn’t but his condition was much worse than dehydration. Speaking of which, I been to hospitals in Montreal many times for just that because of my condition; first thing they did was IV me up…..and they were very professional as well.

Fear of change. If you say the words "private health care" in Canada, your setting yourself up to fail in an election. People desperately cling to the sinking ship.

Maybe candidates need someone like you to explain to the people how “private healthcare” would work.…or would it?

[BZBee]

Is there any country in the world that has such a conundrum in regards to their health system?

Yes but worse. Face North.....now turn completly around and face South. Bingo!!

[bush_cheney2004]

...As I understand it, you’re well aware of the high cost of services yet want the choice to pay for them yourself because it will improve the service and care you get? In the US, those who can afford health insurance complain that doctor’s rush them through because the next deposit into the doctor’s bank account is sitting in the waiting room. Those who don’t have health insurance do not usually see the inside of a doctor’s office.

I can afford health insurance in the US...got no reason to complain. Those without health insurance can and do see the inside of a doctor's office, be it a campus clinic, free clinic, county hospital, or emergency care at a private hospital. My brother lives in Midtown Manhattan...has never, ever had health insurance but a compound leg fracture was treated swiftly by "real" doctors. More myth in this thread than facts.

Health care is not a "right"...not even in Canada.

[newbie]

8-12 hours to see a doctor with a broken arm is absurd.

I waited 7 hours in an ER here to be seen and Deep Venous Thrombosis (DVT) was suspected.

Here's a tip from personal experience to beat the emergency room blues: 1) get in a traffic accident, or 2) take an accidental overdose. No wait!

[BZBee]

I can afford health insurance in the US...got no reason to complain. Those without health insurance can and do see the inside of a doctor's office, be it a campus clinic, free clinic, county hospital, or emergency care at a private hospital. My brother lives in Midtown Manhattan...has never, ever had health insurance but a compound leg fracture was treated swiftly by "real" doctors. More myth in this thread than facts.

Health care is not a "right"...not even in Canada.

I'm happy for you but I do have two questions. Did your brother eventually pay for that leg fracture treatment and why doesn't he have health insurance?

Maybe I should have been more specific: Those without insurance do not usually visit a doctor's office for anything that is not life threatening. When a serious condition necessitates the services of emergency care, they suffer real hardship to pay the bill. As I understand it, "free" clinics are not always free...it depends on the service required.

You pay for health insurance and you don't think you have a "right" to healthcare? I pay, so you bet I have a right.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm happy for you but I do have two questions. Did your brother eventually pay for that leg fracture treatment and why doesn't he have health insurance?

Maybe I should have been more specific: Those without insurance do not usually visit a doctor's office for anything that is not life threatening. When a serious condition necessitates the services of emergency care, they suffer real hardship to pay the bill. As I understand it, "free" clinics are not always free...it depends on the service required.

You pay for health insurance and you don't think you have a "right" to healthcare? I pay, so you bet I have a right.

He only had to pay for painkillers and cast removal after several months....in cash. He didn't have insurance because he lives "off the grid" and didn't want to pay for it. Paying for health insurance does not make it an enumerated "right"....it is simply a group or individual underwriting product....a contract with numerous exclusions, deductibles, coordination with other insurance, etc., etc.

[BZBee]

He only had to pay for painkillers and cast removal after several months....in cash. He didn't have insurance because he lives "off the grid" and didn't want to pay for it. Paying for health insurance does not make it an enumerated "right"....it is simply a group or individual underwriting product....a contract with numerous exclusions, deductibles, coordination with other insurance, etc., etc.

He paid for cast removal but not for the application? I wonder who paid the doctors who attended to him.

Well heck, we are given copies of contracts so I wouldn't expect the right to anything that is excluded and I would expect to pay my deductible (or co-pay) but I would definitely expect the right to what the contract states I am paying for.

[bush_cheney2004]

He paid for cast removal but not for the application? I wonder who paid the doctors who attended to him.

Well heck, we are given copies of contracts so I wouldn't expect the right to anything that is excluded and I would expect to pay my deductible (or co-pay) but I would definitely expect the right to what the contract states I am paying for.

Who paid? The good citizens of New York (emergency care).

[BZBee]

[Who paid? The good citizens of New York (emergency care).

And, as a Canadian, I've been accused by Americans of wanting something for nothing. In Canada, it ain't free.

Tell you what, when my husband (he's in his very late 50's) loses his job in June, we'll have to find a "free" free clinic and have the good citizens pay. My employer offers no healthcare insurance coverage and the cost is undoable for us if we want to eat and have a roof over our heads. Not knowing how long he will be unemployed and how much of a pay cut he will have to take, we have started preparing for his unemployment by giving up our seccond car and other luxuries such as vacations, eating out and entertaining. Incidentally, we both have conditions for which a cure has not been found and which require medication and follow-ups by our specialists.

[geoffrey]

$600 for an entire family? Now, that’s cheap compared to $400 (subsidized) for 2 people!!

Plus about $30,000 in taxes dedicated to health care annually. Not a great deal IMO. That works out to $3100 a month to pay for health care that we never received. The bills to go to the US to get treatment were about what my family paid annually in taxes towards the Canadian health care system.

You are speaking of people who were productive to society for many, many years. FYI, my father retired at the young age of 79. Many are unable to play shuffleboard, let alone work. You fail to understand that these are the same people who helped pay for your preservation when you were too young to work. Now it’s your turn to return the favor. I suppose you plan to be productive to society for the rest of your life ? Why don’t we just knock off all old people who we consider a burden to society? So, your implied concern in your statement: “It can take over a year to fix a hip that causes extreme pain and a loss of mobility in a seniors final days” is hypocritical because if you have to help pay for the fix, then it should not happen.

Bah. Return the favour? Nah. If they were productive for 45 years, then they'd have the money to purchase insurance. It makes no sense for a country to invest limited resources in perserving unproductive members over future productive peoples.

Sorry, I thought the topic was hospitalization and doctor’s visits. Most healthcare insurance policies in the US do not cover dental and vision; you need different insurance for that. We won’t even start debating the cost of prescription drugs here in the US versus Canada. Prescription drugs are usually covered by health policies here but if a drug is too expensive and no generic is available they won’t cover it.

It's true here too. But remember, that prescription drug coverage is private. Only the wealthy and employed have access to that (Alberta has limited coverage for seniors). Like I said $600 a month for coverage for a family. The average household income in Canada is $50kish a year, about $3000 a month in take home income. You expect them to be able to afford 15% of their income towards health care each month? I doubt it. Many go without.

As I understand it, you’re well aware of the high cost of services yet want the choice to pay for them yourself because it will improve the service and care you get? In the US, those who can afford health insurance complain that doctor’s rush them through because the next deposit into the doctor’s bank account is sitting in the waiting room. Those who don’t have health insurance do not usually see the inside of a doctor’s office.

It's the same in Canada. Doctors get paid per patient visit, if they rush them through they make more in fees. Doctors are private businesses, they bill the government for your treatment instead of an insurance provider in the US.

Doctors and insurance companies don’t advertise when a doctor is hit with a lawsuit. The cost is passed on through higher insurance premiums which cover a variety of services and no one particular doctor or service is singled out as a reason for the cost increase, so patients are generally not aware that they should choose another doctor. And don’t forget, we’re talking about the Lawsuit capital of the world.

All lawsuits are public knowledge. Search your doctors name and find out if he's been sued. In Canada, you can use calii.org to find if anyone has been subject to a judgement.

I waited 7 hours in an ER here to be seen and Deep Venous Thrombosis (DVT) was suspected.

In the US? How did they suspect it if you weren't seen yet?

Good that you can do that…..so there’s another choice for you. What’s the problem? Don’t tell me about others who can’t afford it…..I’m not convinced of your concern for others (shuffleboarding seniors and all). Besides if those of you who can afford it actually do it, then it may lighten the load on the Canadian healthcare system and allow better care to those who can’t afford it and need it.

I am not concerned about others. But I do acknowledge that the system is two tier anyways. Those rich enough to go to the US and everyone else that is in Canada's oppressive health care system.

So, you want the World to believe that the Canadian government allows people to die while the doctors who can save these lives work part-time? Sounds like the people of Canada need to look into charging the government with a criminal offense.

I agree. It's criminal what the government does, and how much people suffer, all because of an ideology.

What’s your point? So I get this “choice” and I pay $500/month (and that’s a very conservative number) for health insurance to cover what is not covered by healthcare. I pay that amount for let’s say 3 years so that amounts to $18,000.00 and in those 3 years I’ve seen my doctor at least once a year and don’t need any prescription medicine……let’s say I’m healthy (no claims for the doctor’s visits because they are covered under the “system”). At the beginning of year 4, I need to be rushed to the hospital (no charge for hospital under the “system) so I’ve already paid for more than 36 kilometers in an ambulance; 240 fibreglass casts; and more than 36 fourteen days treatments for pneumonia. (In all of my life, I’ve had to use an ambulance once…and that was no where near a 36 kilometer ride.)

$500/month/person, that's a little high. But oh well. I see where your coming from. Say you get a serious condition that requires a drug treatment that costs $100,000 a year. Then what do you do? I think that's the big reason behind insurance. The little stuff is nice too.

Tax me.

The problem in Canada is that mostly goes to a big Health Canada beaurocracy that does nothing to treat anyone, and the remainents trickle through to provincial beaurocracies that provide the leftovers from that to the hospitals and doctors. It's a massive organization with tons of waste. They have no motivation to be more effective.

Maybe candidates need someone like you to explain to the people how “private healthcare” would work.…or would it?

I've never said that we should adopt the American model. But there are great models in Europe that could be adopted in Canada that would lead to much better care and more options. There are no lines in France or Sweden, and access is universal... private hospitals should be providing publically insured care... with the option to buy your own additional private insuarnce.

[bush_cheney2004]

And, as a Canadian, I've been accused by Americans of wanting something for nothing. In Canada, it ain't free.

Tell you what, when my husband (he's in his very late 50's) loses his job in June, we'll have to find a "free" free clinic and have the good citizens pay. My employer offers no healthcare insurance coverage and the cost is undoable for us if we want to eat and have a roof over our heads. Not knowing how long he will be unemployed and how much of a pay cut he will have to take, we have started preparing for his unemployment by giving up our seccond car and other luxuries such as vacations, eating out and entertaining. Incidentally, we both have conditions for which a cure has not been found and which require medication and follow-ups by our specialists.

We all can want something for nothing...doesn't mean we're going to get it. In the US....county, state, and federal governments spend hundreds of billions on all manner of healthcare. As in Canada, it is not free. The Americans have "socialized" medicine on a scale that dwarfs Canada.

As to your "pre-existing conditions" and circumstances, many people never had such luxuries to begin with, regardless of medical status. The average American retired couple is reported to need about $200,000 US for medical costs, medi-gap insurance, etc. over a 20 year unassisted living retirement. It is said that nothing is more valuable or expensive as good health.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I've never said that we should adopt the American model. But there are great models in Europe that could be adopted in Canada that would lead to much better care and more options. There are no lines in France or Sweden, and access is universal... private hospitals should be providing publically insured care... with the option to buy your own additional private insuarnce.

True...I've never understood such strident comparisons by Canadians if the ultimate goal is a better health care system instead of better OECD rankings than the Americans. Plenty of other models to choose from.

[guyser]

Plus about $30,000 in taxes dedicated to health care annually. Not a great deal IMO. That works out to $3100 a month to pay for health care that we never received. The bills to go to the US to get treatment were about what my family paid annually in taxes towards the Canadian health care system.

Is that the avg cost ? Seems confusing.

Bah. Return the favour? Nah. If they were productive for 45 years, then they'd have the money to purchase insurance. It makes no sense for a country to invest limited resources in perserving unproductive members over future productive peoples.

Shoot 'em then . Turn 70 and blam....dead

Prescription drugs are usually covered by health policies here but if a drug is too expensive and no generic is available they won’t cover it.

The you have a lousy plan. Switch

[BZBee]

Plus about $30,000 in taxes dedicated to health care annually. Not a great deal IMO. That works out to $3100 a month to pay for health care that we never received. The bills to go to the US to get treatment were about what my family paid annually in taxes towards the Canadian health care system.

Oh please, I didn’t even make that kind of money when I lived in Canada. You make the big bucks, you pay the big taxes.

Bah. Return the favour? Nah. If they were productive for 45 years, then they'd have the money to purchase insurance. It makes no sense for a country to invest limited resources in perserving unproductive members over future productive peoples.

My father worked for 61 years and had 6 children to raise, house, clothe, and feed. He’s a good man who wanted to give his family as much as he could. Today, he struggles because he never managed to save for his old age. You’re a real number. You and the future producers will NEVER contribute as much to society as my parents’ generation; they managed to work and bring their children up with values, morals and respect. Society is a mess and it will get worse…it’s the me generation and it sounds like you fit right in. Are you planning to off yourself when you turn 60, 65, 70? Maybe someone will think of you the way you think of the elderly today. Don’t you have parents?

It's the same in Canada. Doctors get paid per patient visit, if they rush them through they make more in fees. Doctors are private businesses, they bill the government for your treatment instead of an insurance provider in the US.

How can they do that if there is a government imposed patient quota?

All lawsuits are public knowledge. Search your doctors name and find out if he's been sued. In Canada, you can use calii.org to find if anyone has been subject to a judgement.

That’s not something that people would normally think of doing. As I said the reason for higher premiums is not disclosed by the insurance company. I’m not sure there is a website with that information on US doctors. Anyone know of one?

In the US? How did they suspect it if you weren't seen yet?

Yes, in the US. I went to a clinic and they sent me to the hospital with a referral which stated what they thought the problem was. Oh, and I had to pay the clinic and the hospital.

I am not concerned about others. But I do acknowledge that the system is two tier anyways. Those rich enough to go to the US and everyone else that is in Canada's oppressive health care system.

It’s obvious that you don’t care about others, so I don’t understand why this is even an issue for you since you can obviously go to the US for your healthcare.

[quote name='geoffrey' date='Mar 31 2007, 01:00 PM' post='202660'

I agree. It's criminal what the government does, and how much people suffer, all because of an ideology.

People + suffering is not exclusive to Canada.

[quote name='geoffrey' date='Mar 31 2007, 01:00 PM' post='202660'

$500/month/person, that's a little high. But oh well. I see where your coming from. Say you get a serious condition that requires a drug treatment that costs $100,000 a year. Then what do you do? I think that's the big reason behind insurance. The little stuff is nice too.

I may choose death over being kept alive at such a cost; after all, I doubt that I’ll still be productive if I’m that sick.

[BZBee]

Is that the avg cost ? Seems confusing.

I think that is a huge exaggeration. Lots of people in Canada don’t make the kind of money that will allow that amount of taxation. Unless he’s talking about a combined total for working family members in the same household.

quote name='guyser' date='Mar 31 2007, 06:43 PM' post='202793']

The you have a lousy plan. Switch

Switching would mean having to pay for the plan entirely ourselves which is not possible on our income. The plan is what is offered by my husband’s employer; my employer offers nothing. In June my husband’s employer will close the doors and as of September there will be no health insurance….period. We’re hoping he will find a job with benefits but those are getting increasingly harder to find these days.

[geoffrey]

Shoot 'em then . Turn 70 and blam....dead

Nah. We just shouldn't have our biggest social program spending on those that will never do another thing for Canada.

My father worked for 61 years and had 6 children to raise, house, clothe, and feed. He’s a good man who wanted to give his family as much as he could. Today, he struggles because he never managed to save for his old age. You’re a real number. You and the future producers will NEVER contribute as much to society as my parents’ generation; they managed to work and bring their children up with values, morals and respect. Society is a mess and it will get worse…it’s the me generation and it sounds like you fit right in. Are you planning to off yourself when you turn 60, 65, 70? Maybe someone will think of you the way you think of the elderly today. Don’t you have parents?

Nah, I plan to save so I don't become a leech on the children of tomorrow. Congrats on your dad doing all that, now how is my taxes going to him going to better society today? It won't.

Again, emotion over rationality, it's what's killing us.

How can they do that if there is a government imposed patient quota?

Only in some areas. Family doctors are notorious for making you return again and again in order to up their billings to the system.

That’s not something that people would normally think of doing. As I said the reason for higher premiums is not disclosed by the insurance company. I’m not sure there is a website with that information on US doctors. Anyone know of one?

I'm sure a law library has a database of civil judgements. Anyways, it sounds like your making another 'pay me for my ignornance' claim with that one. If most people are too ignorant to research a little on the people they willing intrust their lives to, then that's their own fault when things don't go as planned. Buyer beware, especially in health care.

It’s obvious that you don’t care about others, so I don’t understand why this is even an issue for you since you can obviously go to the US for your healthcare.

It's obvious that I do care for others. Canada has a terrible system that inflicts pain and suffering on thousands everyday. We need to adopt a European model. We won't because Canadians have their heads shoved up their asses and can't see the light of day.

When you dogmatically believe in the ideals of a long dead rural socialist preacher, your setting yourself up for failure. It's time we look at the future, not the past.

People + suffering is not exclusive to Canada.

The ability to end suffering and have the best system in the world is nearly exlcusive to Canada. But Canadians would rather have the status quo then change. After all, maybe they might be forced to rethink the fact that the world adores everything Canadian...

I may choose death over being kept alive at such a cost; after all, I doubt that I’ll still be productive if I’m that sick.

Yet you think it's reasonable to throw thousands at seniors monthly? hrrmph.

[bush_cheney2004]

Shoot 'em then . Turn 70 and blam....dead

Nah. We just shouldn't have our biggest social program spending on those that will never do another thing for Canada.

Agreed...nobody wants to say it but government blows billions on the last years of many lives. Far more than on abortions, which actually saves money. The UK already limits kidney dialysis above a certain age because of scarce resources and priority settings.

But shhhh...we can't talk about it.