Canada: Not Very Corrupt?

[tml12]

At least according to Transparency International:

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?...3b-aeef94d5eefd

Although they mentioned that we weren't getting much cleaner...

[Riverwind]

At least according to Transparency International:

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?...3b-aeef94d5eefd

Although they mentioned that we weren't getting much cleaner...

Opposition politicans seek to exgarrate the relevance of the sponsership scandal because it helps them politically. The fact is corruption is not wide spread in Canadian institutions and the sponsership scandal itself was most likely caused by a few individuals who took advantage of a poorly managed program.

[Leafless]

So Canada came in as 14th with a score of 8.4 and the U.S with 10 TIMES THE POPULATION ranked 17 with a score of 7.6.

I would say the U.S. is a lot less corrupt considering the popualtion difference and Canada is politically democratically inferior as in comparison with the U.S.

[FTA Lawyer]

At least according to Transparency International:

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?...3b-aeef94d5eefd

Although they mentioned that we weren't getting much cleaner...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I'd say that 14th is a fail for a country that is supposed to be one of the leaders of the civilized world.

With the way we trumpet ourselves as having such a reliable moral compass, standing proud behind our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, being asked to go to developing nations to teach them how to establish policing and justice systems, being proud participants in the U.N. and so on, you'd think we'd be embarrassed to rank that low.

I guess it's all a matter of where you choose to set the bar.

FTA Lawyer

[Guest eureka]

We have been through this before somewhere. Another ranking organization has a much better opinion of Canada.

[Riverwind]

So Canada came in as 14th with a score of 8.4 and the U.S with 10 TIMES THE POPULATION ranked 17 with a score of 7.6. I would say the U.S. is a lot less corrupt considering the popualtion difference and Canada is politically democratically inferior as in comparison with the U.S.

What does population have to do with with report on corruption. It measures perceptions not absolute numbers of incidents.

In addition, the US democratic system is rife with corruption at all levels since politicians regularily trade votes on issues in return for campaign donations. If we want to improve the system in Canada we should not be looking at the US.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka,

We have been through this before somewhere. Another ranking organization has a much better opinion of Canada.

They may indeed have, before. There can be no question, though, that there is a problem with our government. Incompetence I can handle, to a degree, though I would prefer inexperience. Outright corruption, though, is too much, and I am surprised we rated as high as we did. This goes beyond the old jokes that 'politicians are crooks', etc. It is much too real, and has gone on for too long.

It is not a simple case of political 'jousting' and spin, even though that is a part of it. The worst part is, Harper and the conservatives have had their opportunity to use these 'revelations' as the forge to hammer out a 'dragon-slaying sword' worthy of King George, but have only managed to press the case home with an annoying thumbtack. I guess this proves that they just don't have the right 'mettle'.

[Leafless]

Sparhawk

"It measures perceptions not absolute numbers of incidents"

That depends on what kind of handle a specific country has on anti-corruption efforts and how one views corruption.

The U.S with ten times the population of Canada has a lot more to worry about in maintaining efficiency and sustainability in anti-corruption and good governance efforts.

I partially agree with theloniusfleabag who said Harper could have done a better job 'slaying the dragon' and said "I guess that proves they just didn't have the mettle" and I would like to add to that they just didn't have the 'left press'.

[Guest eureka]

More to the point, Fleabag, would be a realisic look at the "corrruption." There is corruption everywhere and there will always be corruption. No government has ever existed (save perhaps Cromwell's) that did not have corruption as part of its modus operandi

The reality is that corruption in Canada is penny ante stuff compared to what goes on in most countries. Also, we should be somewhat less critical of ourselves in that here we expose our corruption: we have the machinery and will to hold governments to account.

Not many countries have that. Certainly not the one to the South.

[fellowtraveller]

This site is rife with apologists for the inexcusable.

we have the machinery and will to hold governments to account.

Not many countries have that. Certainly not the one to the South.

What about Tom Delay?

Any examples of the Liberals holding anybody to account at that level?

They stole my money. They stole your money. Coffin skims $1.6 million and walks. A few bureaucrats get their wrists slapped. The government skates away to your applause.

Don't talk to me about accountability.

[Yaro]

What about Tom Delay?

Any examples of the Liberals holding anybody to account at that level?

They stole my money. They stole your money. Coffin skims $1.6 million and walks. A few bureaucrats get their wrists slapped. The government skates away to your applause.

Don't talk to me about accountability.

Your picking Tom Delay as an example of someone in the US being held to account? Are you serious? The guy has been an out and out criminal for 15 years and hes finally getting nailed because he went WAY over the top. There is more corruption in TEXAS then there is in Canada, there is more corruption in HALIBURTON then there is in Canada, there is more corruption in the PENTEGON then there is in Canada. The notion that there's relatively a significant amount of corruption in Canada when compared to the US betrays a lack of knowledge of US politics.

Not to mention the fact that what Delay has been doing forever is 100x worse then what the liberals did.

[Guest eureka]

Felllowtraveler! I did give on another site some figures about US corruption. It amounts to billions annually with every appropriation Bill. The amount is not really calculable since there is NO oversight.

[err]

The notion that there's relatively a significant amount of corruption in Canada when compared to the US betrays a lack of knowledge of US politics.

A lack of knowledge period!!! Wouldn't you say...

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka,

The reality is that corruption in Canada is penny ante stuff compared to what goes on in most countries.

That shouldn't matter. Saying 'so and so is worse' should not be a justification. Who cares what others are doing. The only influence the corruption of others should have on us is to make us wary of travel or trade. (Not that it should stop us, it should just make us open our eyes wider)

[Guest eureka]

I would agree, Thelonius, exceppt that I am responding to the claims that some very corrupt nations are less corrupt than we are. The reality is that we are not bad at all: we probably are almost as corruption free as it is possible to be given what politics is.

BTW, yesterday I acquired a copy of "Imperial Hubris." I paid just one dollar for it at a Library Book Sale.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka,

The reality is that we are not bad at all: we probably are almost as corruption free as it is possible to be given what politics is.

Sadly, you are close to being 'too right'. Still, just because we're used to being bilked, doesn't make it any more right. In fact, that is the greatest danger...acceptance of wrongdoing as the status quo.

BTW, yesterday I acquired a copy of "Imperial Hubris."

Excellent, I hope you find it as enlightening as I did. The author doesn't pull any punches, it was a refreshing read.

I paid just one dollar for it at a Library Book Sale.

Curse you! (I mean...well done!) I paid thirty for it new. Well worth it, though.

[FTA Lawyer]

...we probably are almost as corruption free as it is possible to be given what politics is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the problem with Canadian democracy...

Our standard of living is so high that we don't even notice a few billion dollars disappearing here and there...and since we don't notice it, we conclude that we have little corruption...

And since we have so little corruption, and our standard of living is so high, we conclude that it's really not possible to have less corruption than we do, so whatever corruption we do have is okay and doesn't enrage us.

The perfect rationalization of apathy.

Thank you Canadian government for being kind enough to steal so little of my money.

FTA Lawyer

[tml12]

...we probably are almost as corruption free as it is possible to be given what politics is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the problem with Canadian democracy...

Our standard of living is so high that we don't even notice a few billion dollars disappearing here and there...and since we don't notice it, we conclude that we have little corruption...

And since we have so little corruption, and our standard of living is so high, we conclude that it's really not possible to have less corruption than we do, so whatever corruption we do have is okay and doesn't enrage us.

The perfect rationalization of apathy.

Thank you Canadian government for being kind enough to steal so little of my money.

FTA Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FTA Lawyer,

Someone mentioned to me at work the other day:

"It is a small price to pay to vote Liberal to save this country from becoming more like the U.S."

Yes, corruption means different things sto different people. Especially in Canada when the U.S. is involved...

[FTA Lawyer]

...we probably are almost as corruption free as it is possible to be given what politics is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the problem with Canadian democracy...

Our standard of living is so high that we don't even notice a few billion dollars disappearing here and there...and since we don't notice it, we conclude that we have little corruption...

And since we have so little corruption, and our standard of living is so high, we conclude that it's really not possible to have less corruption than we do, so whatever corruption we do have is okay and doesn't enrage us.

The perfect rationalization of apathy.

Thank you Canadian government for being kind enough to steal so little of my money.

FTA Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FTA Lawyer,

Someone mentioned to me at work the other day:

"It is a small price to pay to vote Liberal to save this country from becoming more like the U.S."

Yes, corruption means different things sto different people. Especially in Canada when the U.S. is involved...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure if you're being facetious...but it's clearly misguided to ignore corruption and vote Liberal just because you don't want to become more like the U.S.

Vote Green Party or NDP...pretty un-American I would say.

FTA Lawyer

[newbie]

I'm not sure if you're being facetious...but it's clearly misguided to ignore corruption and vote Liberal just because you don't want to become more like the U.S.

Vote Green Party or NDP...pretty un-American I would say.

FTA Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought we went through this a few times already. But to use your word, I think it is "misguided" to tar every member of a group with the same brush (that is assuming valid corruption even exists). How about let's wait for Gomery to do his job.

[FTA Lawyer]

I'm not sure if you're being facetious...but it's clearly misguided to ignore corruption and vote Liberal just because you don't want to become more like the U.S.

Vote Green Party or NDP...pretty un-American I would say.

FTA Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought we went through this a few times already. But to use your word, I think it is "misguided" to tar every member of a group with the same brush (that is assuming valid corruption even exists). How about let's wait for Gomery to do his job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough.

[Guest eureka]

The drive for self advantage is probably as strong in humans as that other well covered urge. There will never not be corruption in politics or, as in the case with Adscam, in those who prey on opportunity that inadvertently comes their way through political action.

There are no thanks due the Canadian government for "steling so little of pur money." Every government must have the necessary oversight in place and Canada had better than most of the world. Oversights that have only recently been enacted and evidence of the growing determination to lessen the possibilities of corruption. The very noise being heard over this and other cases is evidence that we are making priogress.

Not many years ago, there would not have been a single headline. As, and I keep repeating this for the discomfit of those who think Chretien was the anti-Christ, when the Mulroney administration, paid Ad agencies even more for the benefit of the Conservative, not the National, agenda and party.

[tml12]

The drive for self advantage is probably as strong in humans as that other well covered urge. There will never not be corruption in politics or, as in the case with Adscam, in those who prey on opportunity that inadvertently comes their way through political action.

There are no thanks due the Canadian government for "steling so little of pur money." Every government must have the necessary oversight in place and Canada had better than most of the world. Oversights that have only recently been enacted and evidence of the growing determination to lessen the possibilities of corruption. The very noise being heard over this and other cases is evidence that we are making priogress.

Not many years ago, there would not have been a single headline. As, and I keep repeating this for the discomfit of those who think Chretien was the anti-Christ, when the Mulroney administration, paid Ad agencies even more for the benefit of the Conservative, not the National, agenda and party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you're correct. People will always want more...no one can ever have everything they want.

The Liberals are corrupt, the Conservatives were corrupt, and, you know what, if the NDP and Bloc were in power they'd be corrupt after awhile too.

We cannot change the actions of individuals in government unless we change their culture of entitlement. And, as long as we refer to elected officials as honourable indivuduals while they cheat, lie, and steal our money I don't see anything changing.

Is it everyone? No...but it is enough of them. This shouldn't turn us away from politicians (as it does with too many people) but it should make us work harder to hold them more accountable...