Meanwhile in Toronto ... Let's debate a picture

[Independent1986]

Picture from Global News

This was in Toronto yesterday, the Canadian flag upside down by two people that most likely were born and lived here their entire life. I said most likely so I might be wrong, my apology to the Political Correctness crowd on both sides for speculating on someone's origins.

If this is the case, it proves to me again the point that loving your country has nothing to do with being born in a country how some ultra nationalists on the right try to tell us (I am aware of the danger of ultra nationalism).

I came here as an immigrant and the immigrants that I know will never dare to put the Canadian flag upside down. Why ? Because we have seen other systems and we are thankful that this great country allowed us to come here and be part of this society.

Looking to hear other opinions and different points of view on this topic

PS: Nobody said it is illegal or it should be illegal, I am a citizen that have an opinion about other citizens actions. At the end they can do whatever they want with their private property. I am not part of anti fa or the alt right to impose my point of view on people.

@eyeball

Is that you in the back ?  Joking, good morning 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[xul]

It's ok. 

Regardless blood is pure or not, the truth is: most people only love their national flag when they feel the flag can bring in something good for them, just like these pirates only recognize Captain Elizabeth Swann if they think the Captain can do something good for them.......

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by xul

[Independent1986]

57 minutes ago, xul said:

It's ok. 

Regardless blood is pure or not, the truth is: most people only love their national flag when they feel the flag can bring in something good for them, just like these pirates only recognize Captain Elizabeth Swann if they think the Captain can do something good for them......

I agree more with:

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."  

and by doing that I found out it works better for the individual when you think about something bigger than yourself.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Tdot]

2 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Picture from Global News

This was in Toronto yesterday, the Canadian flag upside down by two people that most likely were born and lived here their entire life.

It proves to me again the point that loving your country has nothing to do with being born in a country how some ultra nationalists on the right try to tell us (I am aware of the danger of ultra nationalism).

I came here as an immigrant and I know most people in the immigrant community that will never dare to put the Canadian flag upside down. Why ? Because we have seen other systems and we are thankful that this great country allowed us to come here and be part of this society.

@eyeball

Is that you in the back ?  Joking, good morning 

Looking to hear other opinions and different points of view on this topic

I missed the gist of the argument here.  I was unable to comprehend how these events listed here, can be correlated to each other in a meaningful way so I failed at drawing any conclusions relative to the topic.

For example, since it is not illegal/not a crime to hold the Canadian flag upside down, I was not able to think of a reasonable and fair way for me to correlate their act to them being immigrants or natural born Canadians. Also that picture did not give me any facts about those humans' national origin, so I failed at being able to deem them natural-born Canadians when I made my own analysis.

Most of all, being a citizen born in a country should never mean that we humans can prejudge those citizens for exercising liberties or Rights that citizens are exactly entitled to. The flag for example, is just an item, in the eyes of some citizens born in Canada ---as the flag does not define them OR they feel that the flag no longer defines what the national Constitution declares. No matter the case, it still is never exclusive to one citizen's own private value system nor their preferred national symbolisms ---so I am unable to place judgement on citizens (nor any immigrant) for how they treat their own personal Canadian flag which they purchased for $7.99 at our local thrift store in Tdot near Bloor St and Yonge.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Tdot

[Independent1986]

13 minutes ago, Tdot said:

I don't see how these events listed here, can be correlated to each other in a meaningful way, so I failed at drawing any conclusions relative to the topic.

For example, since it is not illegal/not a crime to hold the Canadian flag upside down, I was not able to think of a reasonable and fair way for me to correlate their act to them being immigrants or is naturalized. Also that picture did not give me any facts about those humans' national origin, so I failed at being able to deem them natural-born Canadians when I made my own analysis.

Most of all, being a citizen born in a country should never mean that we humans can prejudge those citizens for exercising liberties or Rights that citizens are exactly entitled to. The flag for example, is just an item, in the eyes of some citizens born in Canada ---as the flag does not define them OR they feel that the flag no longer defines what the national Constitution declares. No matter the case, it still is never exclusive to one citizen's own private value system nor their preferred national symbolisms ---so I am unable to place judgement on citizens, for how they treat their own personal Canadian flag which they purchased for $7.99 at our local thrift store near Bloor St and Yonge.

1. That's why I said "most likely born here" leaving room to I might be wrong, your doing Political Correctness, "how dare I pass judgment on someone's origins. "

2. Nobody said it is illegal or it should be illegal, I am a citizen that have an opinion about other citizens actions. At the end they can do whatever they want with their private property. I am not part of anti fa or the alt right to impose my point of view on people.

3. 7.99$ ??

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Tdot]

1 hour ago, Independent1986 said:

I agree more with:

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."  

You paid taxes and you obeyed the laws and you donated to impoverished humans plus you stood strong in your workplace ---to help enhance the view of your country's reputation for having law-abiding hardworking citizens.  Each person has their own, calling, so it is most fair to apply only the bare minimum generalized specs to each citizens.

[Tdot]

22 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

1. That's why I said "most likely born here" leaving room to I might be wrong, your doing Political Correctness

I disagree. What I posted is not about political correctness, but it is about my fairness quotient when I tried to answer your OP here ---because I simply have no idea, whatsoever, if those people are born in Canada or not ... plus they are doing something with the flag that is not illegal or prohibited, for immigrants to do.

 

[Independent1986]

4 minutes ago, Tdot said:

I disagree. What I posted is not about political correctness, but it is about my fairness quotient when I tried to answer your OP here ---because I simply have no idea, whatsoever, if those people are born in Canada or not ... plus they are doing something with the flag that is not illegal or prohibited, for immigrants to do.

 

I updated my main post so you can feeeel good: PS: Nobody said it is illegal or it should be illegal, I am a citizen that have an opinion about other citizens actions. At the end they can do whatever they want with their private property. I am not part of anti fa or the alt right to impose my point of view on people.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Tdot]

17 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

... feeeel....

awwww wow <sigh> I am so sad to read this. And now, please accept my apology for ever posting in here.

I never intended to cause you to focus on, me, instead of you staying focused on the topic.

[Independent1986]

20 minutes ago, Tdot said:

awwww wow <sigh> I am so sad to read this. And now, please accept my apology for ever posting in here.

I never intended to cause you to focus on, me, instead of you staying focused on the topic.

Is beautiful day in Toronto today, is important to feel good   

To be fair yes, is good you mentioned those things because yes was important for me to specify: "origins doubt and illegal part", I was thinking about that but I did not write them down. 

You see, your idea helps me calibrate my idea. Now I wrote it down and we came to a somewhat middle point. That's what conversation is about.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Tdot]

47 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Is beautiful day in Toronto today, is important to feel good   

To be fair yes, is good you mentioned those things because yes was important for me to specify: "origins doubt and illegal part", I was thinking about that but I did not write them down. 

You see, your idea helps me calibrate my idea. Now I wrote it down and we came to a somewhat middle point. That's what conversation is about.

This, is beautiful.

[Guest]

Peaceful protest is the right of every citizen.  If that protest involves flying a flag upside down, that is their choice, and one they are entitled to make. 

That said, are we absolutely sure they aren't just like those Marines in Atlanta?

Edited May 3, 2020 by bcsapper

[Independent1986]

12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That said, are we absolutely sure they aren't just like those Marines in Atlanta?

What marines in Atlanta ?

Of course they have the right to protest, the same goes with the militia members in Michigan. As long as the law states that who is to say otherwise ?

It is just surprising how quick we turn on our country when things get bad, that goes for both sides.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

If this is the case, it proves to me again the point that loving your country has nothing to do with being born in a country how some ultra nationalists on the right try to tell us (I am aware of the danger of ultra nationalism).

I came here as an immigrant and the immigrants that I know will never dare to put the Canadian flag upside down. Why ? Because we have seen other systems and we are thankful that this great country allowed us to come here and be part of this society.

I came across a study some time back, which I believe I posted to my club. It was in the US, but applies to Canada, I think. It was about 'in-group loyalty'. This is a sociological term which relates to our instincts for tribalism and it basically means we care more about and want to be around people who are in 'our tribe'. It's a universal instinct born of a million years of tribal living. Anyway, they measured the degree of in-group loyalty of various American political groups and what they found was that there was one group which not only had NO in-group loyalty, it also had a first - out-group loyalty. It cared more about other groups than about its own. What was this group? White liberals. Black liberals have in-group loyalty, as do hispanic liberals. Only white liberals had out-group loyalty.

[Independent1986]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I came across a study some time back, which I believe I posted to my club. It was in the US, but applies to Canada, I think. It was about 'in-group loyalty'. This is a sociological term which relates to our instincts for tribalism and it basically means we care more about and want to be around people who are in 'our tribe'. It's a universal instinct born of a million years of tribal living. Anyway, they measured the degree of in-group loyalty of various American political groups and what they found was that there was one group which not only had NO in-group loyalty, it also had a first - out-group loyalty. It cared more about other groups than about its own. What was this group? White liberals. Black liberals have in-group loyalty, as do hispanic liberals. Only white liberals had out-group loyalty.

May you post that study ? I am curious to read it.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Tdot said:

Most of all, being a citizen born in a country should never mean that we humans can prejudge those citizens for exercising liberties or Rights that citizens are exactly entitled to. The flag for example, is just an item, in the eyes of some citizens born in Canada ---as the flag does not define them OR they feel that the flag no longer defines what the national Constitution declares.

And here we have an example of the leftist disdain for patriotism and love of country. For as in the US, the Canadian left demonstrate out-group loyalty.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

What marines in Atlanta ?

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/flag-flap/article12901837/

Edited May 3, 2020 by bcsapper

[Independent1986]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

Imagine all this debate in the media and the flag is just upside down by mistake ? highly doubt it in this case but it would be the definition of fake news

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Argus]

9 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

May you post that study ? I am curious to read it.

https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/37861-stuff-i-found-on-the-internet/?do=findComment&comment=1366759

Edited May 3, 2020 by Argus

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Independent1986 said:

Imagine all this debate in the media and the flag is just upside down by mistake ? highly doubt it in this case.

There's debate in the media?

[Independent1986]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

There's debate in the media?

Yes articles in the CBC, Globe, National Post, Sun. Of course every group now is using this to make political points. 

CBC is with the protestors, Toronto Sun with Ford, the media are assuming their roles as sheep instead of discussing it like we are here.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Independent1986

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Independent1986 said:

CBC is with the protestors, Toronto Sun with Ford, everyone is assuming their roles as sheep instead of discussing it like we are here.

The irony is these protestors are probably right wing.

[Independent1986]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

The irony is these protestors are probably right wing.

Just proves the point that prostitution is more honorable than some jobs in the media.

[Argus]

Just now, Independent1986 said:

Just proves the point that prostitution is more honorable than some jobs in the media.

I don't know if there was ever a time when the media was unbiased and didn't have an agenda. I doubt it. But in the old days they didn't deny it. Then around about the 1960s or so the major media took on a new face and pretended to be completely unbiased. Reporters, especially the famous news presenters on CBC, CTV and the US big three, would "tell it like it is". Maybe in those days they actually were somewhat unbiased. But they certainly aren't now. They have an agenda which causes them to pump up stories that agree with their agenda, or go find them if they have to, and minimize those which go against their agenda. FOX is the most obvious about it, which makes their 'fair and balanced' motto a joke. The Toronto Star is the FOX news of Canada, but at least they're honest about their progressive slant. And no one really doubts how the Sun chain feel. The CBC, on the other hand, certainly has a progressive agenda, but they don't admit it. To my mind that's worse. Most of the mainstream press have a definite progressive agenda, but again, they won't admit it. And it's this dishonesty which has caused a lot of people to disparage the 'mainstream media' and driven them to even less reliable sources of information on the internet.

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Just proves the point that prostitution is more honorable than some jobs in the media.

I think it just proves the point that, as far as the media are concerned, they've played enough darts and done enough crosswords.  And there were no cats stuck in trees, apparently.

Edited May 3, 2020 by bcsapper