Have We Lost Our Democracy?

[tml12]

A friend asked me a question the other day:

What would make Canada more right-wing? A whopping 300-seat Conservative majority for four years OR a 1-seat Conservative majority for twelve years?

Naturally, one would assume the 300-seat majority. But, my friend (who is Conservative) said that sure any right-wing legislation would pass the Commons BUT would be rejected by the Liberal-dominated Senate (the Liberals currently have 68/105 seats).

My question to you: can we SAFELY assume this???

[Guest eureka]

Assumprion is not the point> The Senate could not reject it: it lacks the authority to do so.

[August1991]

Assumprion is not the point> The Senate could not reject it: it lacks the authority to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A Liberal-controlled senate refused to pass the GST legislation and Mulroney had to appoint eight extra senators, as the BNA Act allows, to get it through. The Senate also held up the free trade legislation, provoking the 1988 federal election.

The Liberal-dominated Senate refused to pass the tax into law. In an unprecedented move to break the deadlock, Mulroney used a little-known constitutional provision to increase the number of senators by eight temporarily, thus giving the Progressive Conservatives a majority in the upper chamber. In response, the Opposition launched a filibuster and further delayed the legislation.

Wikipedia

[Guest eureka]

Held up the legislation, though, August. They cannot prevent it from passong.

[shoop]

kind of a dramatic title.

No we cannot assume that a Liberal dominated senate would hold up/reject 'right-wing' legislation.

A job as a Canadian Senator is one of the sweetest gigs imaginable. Little to no work. Great pay, great prestige, great pension. They wouldn't seriously f*ck with the bills passed by a Conservative government for reasons of self-preservation.

The GST, and to a lesser extent Free Trade, examples are exceptions that prove the rule. They do not have the actual power top prevent legislation passing. They do consitutionally, but if the appointed senate ever really thwarted the effots of the elected House of Commons you would likely see a lot of momentum build for an elected senate. Buh bye jobs for life...

[err]

Brian Mulroney fixed this problem that existed when he got in... with patronage appointments of Conservative...

Then Jean Chretien fixed that problem when he got in... with patronage appointmens of Liberals...

So what do you think will happen if the Conservative/Evangalis/Reform/Alliance party gets in..... three guesses...

[shoop]

So what do you think will happen if the Conservative/Evangalis/Reform/Alliance party gets in..... three guesses...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Evangalis is rude, condescending and ignorant. To automatically include it in a list of names of right of centre parties truly shows how sad you are.

I thought Greg had dealt with the random baiting when he kicked out mirror. Good job taking over as most immature poster err. Bravo to you!

[Leafless]

You asked have we lost our democracy?

Short answer yes.

The Liberal dominated Senate is only part of the problem.

We also have the courts and the federal public service Liberal stacked with the federal public service also linguistically stacked.

This is a huge problem in combination with the Liberals and Quebec along with new immigrants loyal to the Liberals especially in the Toronto area.

How will the Conservatives or for that matter any other national party effectively deal with this -I have no idea.

[Leafless]

I read an interesting tidbit by Andrew Cohen praising Mr.Trudeau relating to the controversial Mulroney book by Peter C. Newman.

Mr. Cohen praised Mr. Trudeau in the following areas:

(1) The 1968 televised debate between Mr. Trudeau and Premier Daniel Johnston concerning special status for Quebec in which Mr. Trudeau argued instead for a broader community, a bigger, bilingual country in which Quebecers would play a leading role.

(2) The 1970 October Crisis in which Mr. Trudeau stood up for democracy against the rule of mob and thus killed the FLQ and political terrorism in Canada.

(3) How Mr. Trudeau intervened in the Quebec referendum and preserved the country.

(4) The 1981 patriation of the BNA Act and the entrenching of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms over the oppositon of the premiers. He rejected their community of communities in favour of his political community.

(5) In 1987 and 1992 Mr. Trudeau opposed Mr. Mulroney's constitutional reforms and helped defeat it twice and in 1996 unmasked Mr. Bouchard for distorting history and misleading Quebecers.

All of this in my opinion DID indeed give Quebec special status over the rest of Canada especially with the implenmentation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

In effect what Mr. Trudeau has accomplished is he Trudeaudized Quebec creating a new more powerful Quebec (while ignoring the rest of Canada) which did nothing to curb the separatist movment which still remains a powerful political entity in Quebec.

This in turn has produced a negative effect on democracy and is nothing more than a federal transfer of powers that has never been challenged to any form of national referendum.

* Excerpts taken from an article in the Ottawa Citizen Thurs. Oct. 4/2005, Pg.A14 entitled Mr. Trudeau's Canada.

[mcqueen625]

The cure for that would be to simply invoke the will of Canadian's and that is to abolish The Senate period, along with the Office of the Governor General. Think of the tax money that could be saved on salaries and expenses from such a move. Why we might even be able to have lower taxes without losing any services, think about that, what a boon for Canadian's. Next we could get rid of Parlaiment and their provincial counterparts since PM Paul Martin stated; "The Supreme Court IS the final word in this country," and elect the judiciary instead to specific terms in office. It would get rid of corrupt politicians, and at the same time make the judiciary accountable to the people they are supposed to serve. I don't see that they have been doing anything recently except attempting to grab more and more power to control our lives, while being accountable to no one.

[fellowtraveller]

Have we lost our democracy.

Well no, but we are well on the way to making the federation irrelevant. Quebec has set a fine example of 'me-first', it is only natural that every region/province do the same. It appears to be the only way to get their share.

[Leafless]

fellowtraveller, you said "Well no but we are well on the way to making our federation irrevelent."

I can agree with that statement but would it not be more accurate to say 'our form of democracy has been made more irrevelent as the freedoms associated with our style of democracy that affect our lifestyles has been modified by government intervention to overide democratic concerns.'

This of course destroys democracy as it takes on the characteristics of a republic or a dictatorship.

[geoffrey]

Very good point. However, I'd see the Conservatives just eliminating the traditional Senate and replacing it EEE just like that as soon as they put up and resistance. I'm no constitutional lawyer, so I don't know how this is done, but I'm sure there is a way around the Senate.

[fellowtraveller]

I can agree with that statement but would it not be more accurate to say 'our form of democracy has been made more irrevelent as the freedoms associated with our style of democracy that affect our lifestyles has been modified by government intervention to overide democratic concerns.'

This of course destroys democracy as it takes on the characteristics of a republic or a dictatorship.

No, it would not be more accurate to say that.

The problem with our system is that power is totally centralized in the office of the Prime Minister. There are very few checks and balances. The Senate is irrelevant. The Opposition is irrelevant. In large part, the Commons is irrelevant other than, through rigid Party discipline, to rubberstamp the PMO agenda. It may have worked well 200 years ago, but not today.

[crazymf]

Have we lost our democracy.

Well no, but we are well on the way to making the federation irrelevant.  Quebec has set a fine example of 'me-first', it is only natural that every region/province do the same.  It appears to be the only way to get their share.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right. And I agree with every step. That would make our provinces into states with autonomy similar to our neighbors. Then we could rehash the federal scene or even amalgamate with the rest of our continent, including Mexico, which I think will happen one day anyway.