Muzzle the real beast!

[SirSpanky]

Does this lady really have the support of her constituents?? If she was my rep, I'd be canvassing the neighborhood to ensure no re-election occured. Shes a joke, and as such can't represent her constituents like she should.

[Army Guy]

Yaro:

disagree, every release by the government has at one time or another passed my desk and I have never seen a statement, which suggested his position, was the national one. Not that I would argue it wasn't the position behind closed doors, only that it wasn't there announced position.

Here is a few releases given by the goverment or recorded from them. The goverment did let the public know that troops were being sent into Afganisatn for alot reasons one of them was combat....the below were releases taken from the first Afgan tour that the PPCLI did in 2001. Perhaps you miss those ones...

My Webpage

My Webpage

The PM's office has to authorize any units that deploys JTF personal are strickly used for combat....here is the defense minister acknowleging that they are in Afgan and they are not handing out candy..

jtf

have never seen the Canadian government use the military as a scapegoat. Neglected yes, abused yes, used as a scapegoat no. Of course there were press releases but at no point was a statement made as to nation building, a Cyprus like commitment to a country with a very violent history with a population nearly as big as our own.

How about the purchase of Mr. Critiens new planes he fast tracked..., the somolia inquiry, Rwanda. Liberals have made a whole new sport of blaming the military for things that have gone wrong...

How many politions were held accountable for any of that, not one, as i recall the military was held accountable. As for nation building, it is part of the peacekeeping process...and an integral part of creating a lasting peace...after all wiping out the taliban to the last man would be easy if we all knew that we could leave the mess for someone else to clean up.

Who says they don't have a problem? I would in fact bet money that they do, although making it public would have been unnecessarily divisive. I am very sure that a request was made of the general to tone down the rhetoric

Again behind closed doors, perhaps i guess Gen Leslie never got that memo in regards to his latest comments....I personal think that Hillier is liked even respected by the present goverment and nothing was said....look what it took to have the militaries favourite polition Miss parish punished...

I

f you believe that something I have said is rhetoric, then I would ask that you point it out. I hardly consider myself above the fray.

I think you are guilty of chest beating by stating that nobody on this board knew more about Canada's military, or it's history...to some it's Rhetoric...and yet you have not proven it a truth....I've asked you to pick your own topic for debate as long as it pertains to Canada's military or its history. As i'm looking foward to it..

Black Watch as it pertains to WW2, was an amalgamation of Scotish/Irish/Canadian/Austrailian troops. Like most not British units black watch was considered a "dragoon" regiment. WW2's black watch had its roots in the Scottish unit however. I did miswrite before however in that what I intended to say was that the notoriety that this unit enjoyed came primarily from the actions of a group of sask. pig farmers.

Yes and your forgetting polish and many americans as well. I do take issue with them being called a dragoon regt, normally considered a tank or armoured unit , the Black watch were clearly a light Inf regt...could you clarify this....

While I could point out that by clinical definition it makes you both prone to violence and definably anti-social but that’s not what I meant. I certainly believe that most soldiers could kill without thought but not without regret.But you would be hard pressed to suggest that there isn't a significant minority that would feel little to no regret, which is the basis of sociopath logy, which is most certainly an anti social behavior

I believe you did state that most soldiers had anti social behavior and now you are stating perhaps a minority...would you go as far as no more than the rest of the Canadian citizens...Considering that the Average Canadian soldier has not fired his weopon in anger i have difficulting in believing how you came up with this theory... i would agree with you if a soldier was repeatily exposed to killing, or continuily exposed to having his comrads wounded or killed...they may develope fellings of no regret when killing for revenge or some other motive but this is the Canadian army we are discussing and have not been exposed to the enemy to this extent...

Yes because god knows military recruiters are well known for telling the whole story. Regardless soldiers are trained to react in a certain way it has nothing to do with a lack of humanity or any kind of rage, the ability to set aside empathy in order to perform the duties of a soldier is a cornerstone of military training, that is by definition sociopath behavior-the lack of ability to empathize.

Not true, there are plenty of statistics out thier that prove not all soldiers react the same in fact in WW II only 40 % or less even fired their wepons, i believe that the stats are higher now as the training improves...and you have failed to mention that military training also includes when to use force and when not to, for example if a soldier comes back off of operations and hits someone with his car, does he stop, or does he continue with out thought he has been trained to take life .......i mean he has been exposed to death,and destruction...you make it sound like they can not become a productive member of Canada...

[Yaro]

Here is a few releases given by the goverment or recorded from them. The goverment did let the public know that troops were being sent into Afganisatn for alot reasons one of them was combat....the below were releases taken from the first Afgan tour that the PPCLI did in 2001. Perhaps you miss those ones...

My Webpage

My Webpage

The PM's office has to authorize any units that deploys JTF personal are strickly used for combat....here is the defense minister acknowleging that they are in Afgan and they are not handing out candy..

jtf

Obviously you misunderstood me, of course we are there partially for combat, part of peace keeping is combat. I know where not there to hand out candy.

How about the purchase of Mr. Critiens new planes he fast tracked..., the somolia inquiry, Rwanda. Liberals have made a whole new sport of blaming the military for things that have gone wrong...

How many politions were held accountable for any of that, not one, as i recall the military was held accountable. As for nation building, it is part of the peacekeeping process...and an integral part of creating a lasting peace...after all wiping out the taliban to the last man would be easy if we all knew that we could leave the mess for someone else to clean up.

How was the military scapegoated for any of that? The Somalia inquiry? Are you kidding me? They tortured and shot a kid? Rwanda was never even brought up in reference the military and the planes were never blamed on the military. I think you might be hypersensitive, as a citizen I never saw those issues blamed on the military as a whole and certainly didn't see them as military issues.

Nation building is not part of the peace keeping process, nation building is completely separate. Countries build themselves; there not build by foreign nations. And we will never wipe out the Taliban to the last man, we don't have anywhere near the manpower and the geography makes it impossible. As for leaving a mess, the US is building a number of bases there; surely they will be able to keep the peace.

Yes and your forgetting polish and many Americans as well. I do take issue with them being called a dragoon regt, normally considered a tank or armoured unit , the Black watch were clearly a light Inf regt...could you clarify this....

Dragoons are about the way they are used, Black Watch was used as a Dragoon regiment, shock troopers like the rest of the 2nd class non brits. And no I’m not forgetting the Polish and Americans, the Americans were always under there own command and had there own distinct regiments. The polishes were never part of Black Watch as that was a "commonwealth" unit.

believe you did state that most soldiers had anti social behavior and now you are stating perhaps a minority

Yes and I restated my position, with an apology. I never thought they were in the majority but that doesn't change the fact that they are a significant minority and that part of the training has the goal of creating an anti social individual.

...would you go as far as no more than the rest of the Canadian citizens...Considering that the Average Canadian soldier has not fired his weopon in anger i have difficulting in believing how you came up with this theory... i would agree with you if a soldier was repeatily exposed to killing, or continuily exposed to having his comrads wounded or killed...they may develope fellings of no regret when killing for revenge or some other motive but this is the Canadian army we are discussing and have not been exposed to the enemy to this extent...

Clearly you are being obstreperous, you know as well as I do that nothing that I said about soldiers or the goals of there training is untrue.

Not true, there are plenty of statistics out thier that prove not all soldiers react the same in fact in WW II only 40 % or less even fired their wepons, i believe that the stats are higher now as the training improves...and you have failed to mention that military training also includes when to use force and when not to, for example if a soldier comes back off of operations and hits someone with his car, does he stop, or does he continue with out thought he has been trained to take life .......i mean he has been exposed to death,and destruction...you make it sound like they can not become a productive member of Canada...

Once again you seem bound and determined to be insulted. Sociopaths are not psychopaths, psychopaths revel in the suffering of others, and sociopaths are ambivalent to it. Sociopaths tend to be calm, cool, calculating, everything that a good soldier aspires to.