Red Tory or Blue Tory? (Party-wise)

[Big Blue Machine]

I say Red Tory is the best solution. I have proof for this. From 1943-1985, Red Tories ruled Ontario and made it better. I don't think that Blue Tories will work in Canada, I say this because they are alittle too far to the right for most Canadians. Red Tories work and it shows.

[cybercoma]

Where's the Bluer than Blue Tory option?

[Newfie Canadian]

Depends on the aim of the party.

IF the aim of the party is to make substantial change to policy along conservative lines, then Red Tory.

IF they to be more electable, then Blue Tory.

At least that's the way it seems right now.

This begs the question, can Red Tories get elected in the nation?

[Big Blue Machine]

Depends on the aim of the party.

IF the aim of the party is to make substantial change to policy along conservative lines, then Red Tory.

IF they to be more electable, then Blue Tory.

At least that's the way it seems right now.

This begs the question, can Red Tories get elected in the nation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Red Tories are more electable than Blue Tories. Blue Tories are the Alliance guys, Red Tories are the old PCs.

[Big Blue Machine]

Any Conservative want to share their opinion?

[Chungwawema]

Forgive my ignorace, but what are the differences between Red and Blue Tories?

We're not just talking about more left vs. more right Tories, are we?

[Newfie Canadian]

Red Tories are more electable than Blue Tories. Blue Tories are the Alliance guys, Red Tories are the old PCs

Opps. I had it reversed.

Thanks for pointing that out BBM.

It should read:

Depends on the aim of the party.

IF the aim of the party is to make substantial change to policy along conservative lines, then Blue Tory.

IF they to be more electable, then Red Tory.

At least that's the way it seems right now.

This begs the question, can Blue Tories get elected in the nation?

[Big Blue Machine]

Forgive my ignorace, but what are the differences between Red and Blue Tories?

We're not just talking about more left vs. more right Tories, are we?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem, Blue Tories are the righter than what the Conservative party is right now. Or think of original Reform Party.

Red Tories are the left of the new Conservative Party. Think of Brian Mulroney as a Red Tory, Belinda Stronach, and John Tory.

[Big Blue Machine]

The question should be, do we want someone more idealogically pure in his/her views, or do we want a moderate/pragmatist who knows how to get elected.

[Big Blue Machine]

Any other conservatives want to give their opinion?

[thom_PC]

Forgive my ignorace, but what are the differences between Red and Blue Tories?

We're not just talking about more left vs. more right Tories, are we?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem, Blue Tories are the righter than what the Conservative party is right now. Or think of original Reform Party.

Red Tories are the left of the new Conservative Party. Think of Brian Mulroney as a Red Tory, Belinda Stronach, and John Tory.

RED TORY- Joe Clark, Robert Stanfield

BLUE TORY- Brian Mulroney, Peter MacKay

NEO CON- Stephen Harper, Preston Manning

[speaker]

I think thom PC is closer to the mark on who's who in the red blue split. Though I'm not sure about Preston Manning. The point that gets me though is that the whole idea as I understand it for removing the word progressive was to ease out the horrible left wing of the right wing party. Is there some suggestion somewhere that maybe this was a mistake and we're going to go back to the good old days of the Progressive Conservative majorities of Brian Mulroney?

[Hicksey]

Am I seeing correctly?

People are musing over whether a conservative-conservative party or a liberal conservative party is best?

The way I see it we have:

ConPC=left center

Liberal=left

NDP=extreme left

Green Party=enviromentalist NDP/ComPC hybrid

ComPC=outright communists

There is no true conservative party in this country anymore.

Our right sits to the left of the US right which isn't all that right anymore.

[politika]

Any other conservatives want to give their opinion?

As a conservative supporter a right winger and a definate blue tory backer. Blue tories make better chnage in our national policies and are far more honest than red tories.

[shoop]

Quotes like this just go to prove the sadness of the left.

Clark and Stanfield are both outdated models.

Mulroney ran a fairly socially progressive Government.

Neo-con is just a hateful term and a continuing attempt by the left to promote "scary, scary, scary" without any support.

Mulroney and MacKay would both be red tories on a fair scale and I would definitely support them. There is no reason to go any further left than those two.

RED TORY- Joe Clark, Robert Stanfield

BLUE TORY- Brian Mulroney, Peter MacKay

NEO CON- Stephen Harper, Preston Manning

[Spike22]

How about arse-wipe brown tory. Like all polititians they are this color no matter which party they belong to.

Seriously people what we have in this country for the most part are middle of the road, don't make wave polititians. Sadly this is why we will continue to have minority governments - we don't have a great selection to choose from folks.

[geoffrey]

Quotes like this just go to prove the sadness of the left.

Clark and Stanfield are both outdated models.

Mulroney ran a fairly socially progressive Government.

Neo-con is just a hateful term and a continuing attempt by the left to promote "scary, scary, scary" without any support.

Mulroney and MacKay would both be red tories on a fair scale and I would definitely support them. There is no reason to go any further left than those two.

RED TORY- Joe Clark, Robert Stanfield

BLUE TORY- Brian Mulroney, Peter MacKay

NEO CON- Stephen Harper, Preston Manning

Agreed, Harper has no neo-con values. Care to describe what a neocon is thom PC? You will most definitely be wrong if you think Harper and Manning are ideals of that.

The whole definition of Red and Blue tories has come to mean liberal and conservative social values... this isn't the true definition of either.

Red tories come from the traditional branch, that was based on the acceptance of unequal distribution of wealth as being neccessary. They believe in things such as the Monarchy, rule by a semi-elitist class and full rights and liberties.

It's a commitment to nationalism yet still the welfare state. Red tories are statist in nature.

It's been completely changed in the last few years by the media that have developed this red tories are socially progressive and blue tories aren't... but it's simply not that way.

The term red tory actually came from the colour of the British uniform, not the Liberal party. This was because they were seen as the most loyalist party.

Red tory's traditionally are closer to the NDP than the Liberals, Liberals believing in more free trade and the such, and red tories more protectionist. Red tories are probably more neo-conservative than blue tories in that they enjoy big government, yet reduced taxes.

The current Conservative party is far more neo-liberal than the red tories, yet I'd say less so than the PC's. As well, the CPC is further from the traditional toryism values in that they like this grassroots ideals, whereas traditional tories are more favourable to a more ruler knows best concept.

About the neo-con issue. Neo-cons are aggresively statist, big government, hawkish regimes. Deficits are accepted, and immigration is seen as cheap labour. They play a considerable interventionist role in the economy by spending massive amounts on public works, and on the military. They are like socialists without social values.

Canadian conservatives are more like neo-liberals. Low intervention in economic affairs, low taxes, balanced budgets... both the Liberals and Conservatives in Canada are economically liberal.

Shoop, Mulroney was definitely more of a liberal than anything. Free-trade is as liberal as it gets.

The problem with this country is that the terms are so jumbled that it can't be compared with standards for the rest of the world. It's my new goal to fix this. People have the biggest misconceptions about conservativism because of this, especially the neo-con concepts!

[BubberMiley]

This is really confusing with the other-way-around red state/blue state split in the states.

And how come there are never any black tories?

[Hicksey]

This is really confusing with the other-way-around red state/blue state split in the states.

And how come there are never any black tories?

Because Liberals have been playing the racist bigot card for so many years that its not likely to change any time soon. And when there is one he's called an Uncle Tom anyway. Can't win for losing.

[shoop]

That is just ignorant and playing to unfair stereotypes.

Let's look at the newly elected Parliament.

Anybody want to guess which party has the lowest percentage of visible minorities in its caucus????

You guessed it. The NDP. Olivia is the only vizmin in the entire caucus.

The CPC has more vizmins (6) than anybody but the Liberals. More than the Bloc and NDP combined.

Hmmm, enough with the hating. Seems like your veiled accusations of racism falls by the side in the face of truth.

This is really confusing with the other-way-around red state/blue state split in the states.

And how come there are never any black tories?

[Hicksey]

I'm surprised to hear that. To be honest I just assumed it was true because historically it has been. Whenever there's been a prominent black in the CPC/Reform he gets referred to as an Uncle Tom by the left and we get reminded over and over that he's one in a sea of white.

That is just ignorant and playing to unfair stereotypes.

Let's look at the newly elected Parliament.

Anybody want to guess which party has the lowest percentage of visible minorities in its caucus????

You guessed it. The NDP. Olivia is the only vizmin in the entire caucus.

The CPC has more vizmins (6) than anybody but the Liberals. More than the Bloc and NDP combined.

Hmmm, enough with the hating. Seems like your veiled accusations of racism falls by the side in the face of truth.

This is really confusing with the other-way-around red state/blue state split in the states.

And how come there are never any black tories?

[shoop]

It's simply lies spread by the Liberals to further their cause. If the Liberals were to be honest then their *scary, scary, scary* rhetoric would become even less effective than it was in the last election.

The CPC is open to the concerns of Canadians of colour.

The Liberals don't want you to hear that because it interferes with their *right* to again become the Natural Governing Party of Canada...

I'm surprised to hear that. To be honest I just assumed it was true because historically it has been. Whenever there's been a prominent black in the CPC/Reform he gets referred to as an Uncle Tom by the left and we get reminded over and over that he's one in a sea of white.

[scribblet]

Forgive my ignorace, but what are the differences between Red and Blue Tories?

We're not just talking about more left vs. more right Tories, are we?

I think they are, it would be better to discuss policy rather than label people. Heck, I'm conservative but I've no idea if I'm blue or red.