Poll: Women vs. Men

[mona]

I know that this is a a decision that you would also have to base on their view but lets enter a hypothetical world. You are a member of a political party and you have to vote a new leader. there are two candidates: a Woman of mixed heritage and a white man. They have exactly the same views and values but you have to vote. Who would you vote for? Just Curious.

[Leader Circle]

I know that this is a a decision that you would also have to base on their view but lets enter a hypothetical world. You are a member of a political party and you have to vote a new leader. there are two candidates: a Woman of mixed heritage and a white man. They have exactly the same views and values but you have to vote. Who would you vote for? Just Curious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mona,

Who are you trying to bait with your "mixed heritage"?

Why not simply woman versus man?

You got issues lady!

Anyone who responds to the voting is asking for a shitstorm!

[cybercoma]

The white man because we want the leader to actually win the election, don't we?

[kimmy]

Having already had polls on "would you vote for an openly gay politician" and "would you vote for a womyn of colour", I can assume that we'll soon have polls on whether you'd vote for a Sikh, a disabled person, or perhaps a fat person. Would you vote for a blind Jewish African wheelchair lesbian?

Also looking forward to the "would you live next door to an ethnic family?" poll. Should be great fun.

-k

[Leader Circle]

Having already had polls on "would you vote for an openly gay politician" and "would you vote for a womyn of colour", I can assume that we'll soon have polls on whether you'd vote for a Sikh, a disabled person, or perhaps a fat person. Would you vote for a blind Jewish African wheelchair lesbian?

Also looking forward to the "would you live next door to an ethnic family?" poll. Should be great fun.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice post Kimmy, so true!!

The poor poor oppressed people of Canada!

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear kimmy,

Would you vote for a blind Jewish African wheelchair lesbian?

I am saving my lone vote for the first 'left-handed midget albino lesbian eskimo' candidate to come along, but I think it was just a song.

[kimmy]

True, true. But tell me: would you stay in your dreary loveless white-person relationship, or would you "get wit da flava?"

-k

[August1991]

I know that this is a a decision that you would also have to base on their view but lets enter a hypothetical world. You are a member of a political party and you have to vote a new leader. there are two candidates: a Woman of mixed heritage and a white man. They have exactly the same views and values but you have to vote. Who would you vote for? Just Curious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey guys. Mona, having posted a few times on this forum, asks a glaringly obvious but intelligent question. Then, only cybercoma seems to have got it. Maybe Mona's question was too subtle for this forum.

We're not asked to pick our preferred candidate, we're asked to pick what we think others will think will be a preferred candidate.

IOW, we're being asked to bet on the winner in a beauty contest. Who will the judges pick?

[Cartman]

Well put August. ALL things being equal, I suspect that men have a better chance of getting elected. Men are probably perceived as being more vigilant in a political setting. If I, however, had to choose, I would take the "blind Jewish African wheelchair lesbian".

[JerrySeinfeld]

I don't know, how old is the woman? If she's between 20-35, bet the man 'cause mat-leave is sure to follow lol.

[Guest eureka]

If the number of women participating in psofessional politics increased dramatically, would that necessarily be beneficial? Would it bring a similar problem to that faced in medicine where female doctors do not, in general, work as long or as hard as males.

That, too, is a part of values that will bever be equal in men and women. In a particular instance, there may be an equal value but how would one know? Should it be a consideration in choosing?

[JerrySeinfeld]

If the number of women participating in psofessional politics increased dramatically, would that necessarily be beneficial? Would it bring a similar problem to that faced in medicine where female doctors do not, in general, work as long or as hard as males.

That, too, is a part of values that will bever be equal in men and women. In a particular instance, there may be an equal value but how would one know? Should it be a consideration in choosing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Women tend to choose "balance" over long hours and commutes. Women tend to balance family, closeness to home, time off, etc. equally when choosing careers which is why generally women earn less money en masse. Men tend to work longer hours, longer commutes and travel away from home to earn the "big bucks". I suppose it depends upon whether we want our politicians to be workaholics dedicated to the profession, or balanced, happy individuals.

[Sir Chauncy]

Either, or, makes no difference. As long as they do a good job.

Sir Chauncy

[mona]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies. I too wouldnt mind the lefthanded,midget, lesbian eskimo in a wheelchair either lol (I hope i got all of that). However to the remarks made by Eureka and Jerry Seinfeld: I have to take a step back, raised my eyebrows and say "excuse me?". The reason why women are usually forced into balancing it all is because their husbands aren't willing to stay at home, clean the house, cook, chauffeur the kids to soccer, etc. or take care of the baby. So maybe if the men in the world weren't so macho and unwilling to take on more "feminine" roles at home then women could do the longer comutes and such and bring in the big bucks. We don't lack ambition or the want to be successful businesswomen, we just lack the understanding males to take on some of those things like cleaning and such that don't allow us to get farther. I'm not trying to bash men, i'm just trying to point out that most men aren't going to take on those responsibilities.

[Guest eureka]

Yes you are, Mons. That was a serious observation and one that concerns the medical profession and is, in fact, a part of the reason that the shortage of doctors is worse than the numbers indicate.

There is a fundamental difference in the life goals of men and women that is not to be dismissed by "well. men won't do the chores."

[cybercoma]

I know that this is a a decision that you would also have to base on their view but lets enter a hypothetical world. You are a member of a political party and you have to vote a new leader. there are two candidates: a Woman of mixed heritage and a white man. They have exactly the same views and values but you have to vote. Who would you vote for? Just Curious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey guys. Mona, having posted a few times on this forum, asks a glaringly obvious but intelligent question. Then, only cybercoma seems to have got it. Maybe Mona's question was too subtle for this forum.

We're not asked to pick our preferred candidate, we're asked to pick what we think others will think will be a preferred candidate.

IOW, we're being asked to bet on the winner in a beauty contest. Who will the judges pick?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for realizing the validity of my post. Everyone else I can assume skipped over it thinking I was trolling.

[cybercoma]

Sorry to Kevin Costner (get back to the original topic) this post here, but let me further explain my initial post.

Men are viewed as being the more aggressive and working minded sex. Regardless of whether this view is warranted or not, it is the common perception. Men by nature are typically larger and more aggressive dating back to the days where we chased down our prey, whereas women have always been the nurturers, etc.

For this reason and also familial reasons; men are traditionally the leader in households where there is a mother and father (up until very recently at least), we are obviously hardwired to believe that men lead and women are caretakers.

Most people would take the strong aggressive leader over the softhearted caretaker (once again regardless of whether these assumption are warranted or not).

I'm not saying or even implying that women can't be as aggressive as men, nor am I implying that they cannot make great leaders. This is quite obviously not the case. What I'm talking about here is simply perception by the masses.

The ambition of a party should be to lead the country and have their leader as Prime Minister. Chances are most people cannot envision a woman leading the country because of the way we've been raised.

That and the fact that Kim Campbell probably flips burgers now. But that's a whole other ball of wax.

[kimmy]

Thanks for realizing the validity of my post.  Everyone else I can assume skipped over it thinking I was trolling.

I actually saw it later after reflecting on what you'd said, but frankly I was distracted by the black Jewish midget homosexuals.

On Kim Campbell, I believe she's returned to academia, hasn't she?

On resistance to female leaders: I once read a theory that we spend all our childhoods rebelling against our mothers-- "Kimmy, stop banging those pots together." "Kimmy, you take the garden-hose out of your little brother's mouth right now." "Kimmy, it's bedtime." "Kimmy, turn off that god-awful racket." "Kimmy, you be home by 10:00 or you're grounded." "Kimmy, you are NOT going to school dressed like that." Our mothers are our first authority figures when we're small children, they were the ones who set boundaries for us, and pushing against those boundaries is something we do as we grow up. And when we're adults and some other woman in a position of authority is trying to assert authority over us, it reminds us of our mothers setting boundaries or giving orders... and we find ourselves pushing against their authority, as we did when we were growing up. It's a theory I read once. I don't know if there's anything to it. But I do recall reading that both men and women respond less favorably to female leaders than male leaders.

I dunno.

-k

[JerrySeinfeld]

Thanks for realizing the validity of my post.  Everyone else I can assume skipped over it thinking I was trolling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually saw it later after reflecting on what you'd said, but frankly I was distracted by the black Jewish midget homosexuals.

On Kim Campbell, I believe she's returned to academia, hasn't she?

On resistance to female leaders: I once read a theory that we spend all our childhoods rebelling against our mothers-- "Kimmy, stop banging those pots together." "Kimmy, you take the garden-hose out of your little brother's mouth right now." "Kimmy, it's bedtime." "Kimmy, turn off that god-awful racket." "Kimmy, you be home by 10:00 or you're grounded." "Kimmy, you are NOT going to school dressed like that." Our mothers are our first authority figures when we're small children, they were the ones who set boundaries for us, and pushing against those boundaries is something we do as we grow up. And when we're adults and some other woman in a position of authority is trying to assert authority over us, it reminds us of our mothers setting boundaries or giving orders... and we find ourselves pushing against their authority, as we did when we were growing up. It's a theory I read once. I don't know if there's anything to it. But I do recall reading that both men and women respond less favorably to female leaders than male leaders.

I dunno.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Banging those pots together"? lol you are a classic Kimmy.

I don't agree with that theory, though. Fathers do the same thing. In fact, I read another theory that is completely the opposite of that -- that being that men in couple situations tend to apologize more during disputes than women do because little boys are always taught boundaries whereas little girls are encouraged more. So girls grow up to be women with a much more confident sense that what they are doing is right, whereas boys grow up into men that tend to question whether or not what they are doing is right because they've always been told "stop doing that!!...behave yourself!!!"

Blah blah this is way off topic.

[mona]

Yes you are, Mons. That was a serious observation and one that concerns the medical profession and is, in fact, a part of the reason that the shortage of doctors is worse than the numbers indicate.

There is a fundamental difference in the life goals of men and women that is not to be dismissed by "well. men won't do the chores."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But there is no life goal difference. Many men and women alike want successful careers, high salaries, families among other things. And the REAL reason why we have a shortage of doctors is a) the high tuition for medical school and the fact that many of them are leaving canada to practice in the United States. Its not becuase women don't want to be careerwomen.

[mona]

Hmm good points made by Kimmy and Jerry, tho Jerry i must say, the household i grew up in was different. My mother was the matriarch of my nuclear family. She is also a firery tempered, sarcastic feminist and i have been raised in an environment were i've always have support to go on a succeed with what i wanted to do. maybe it isn't the sterotypical views of men and women and our general characteristics, it's probably the envionment. If you are raised in an area where you are encouraged into traditional roles then maybe you will most likely take on those roles. But its also a person's ambition. if you have the drive then women can be very ambitious. And if people think that a woman isn't as great a leader then a man then let me remind you about Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth the I, Indira Gandhi etc.

[August1991]

Mona, you can choose to take a politically correct, ideological view of this problem or you can face the facts. IOW, you can be like the Catholic Church or you can be like Galileo. The evidence is in, and eureka is right. Here are a few quick web sites I found:

Phil Hammond is reported to have told a private meeting of Conservative parliamentary candidates that over the course of their working lives women doctors do 20% less work than their male colleagues.

BBC

Among doctors, women work 45 hours per week compared with men's 50. Male physicians also see 117 patients per week, compared with 97 for women.

Fast Company(?)

A portion of the predicted physician shortage may be due to an increasing percentage of women doctors working fewer hours...

Center for Bioethics

“The most striking finding was this emphasis on a more controllable work schedule and flexibility, especially among women physicians,” said Angelo Alonzo, co-author of the study and professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

“If more women physicians seek temporary jobs so they have less stressful lifestyles, it raises issues about the future of health care staffing.”

Ohio State University

[JerrySeinfeld]

Mona, you can choose to take a politically correct, ideological view of this problem or you can face the facts.  IOW, you can be like the Catholic Church or you can be like Galileo.  The evidence is in, and eureka is right.  Here are a few quick web sites I found:

Phil Hammond is reported to have told a private meeting of Conservative parliamentary candidates that over the course of their working lives women doctors do 20% less work than their male colleagues.

BBC

Among doctors, women work 45 hours per week compared with men's 50. Male physicians also see 117 patients per week, compared with 97 for women.

Fast Company(?)

A portion of the predicted physician shortage may be due to an increasing percentage of women doctors working fewer hours...

Center for Bioethics

“The most striking finding was this emphasis on a more controllable work schedule and flexibility, especially among women physicians,” said Angelo Alonzo, co-author of the study and professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

“If more women physicians seek temporary jobs so they have less stressful lifestyles, it raises issues about the future of health care staffing.”

Ohio State University

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These don't surprise me as I believe I stated earlier in this thread: women TEND (not always) to seek out more balance in their careers whereas men TEND to be more driven in their jobs at the expense of other areas of their lives. I stress the word TEND as in generally -- there are always exceptions.