Is everyone so racist in the US?

[newbie]

Actually, I would treat terrorism as a different phenomenon. One person can be a terrorist and not belong to a specific group. I was referring more to the identified and active hate groups, like those I listed. Plus we're getting way off topic. I simply wanted to indicate that, in my belief, the U.S. overall is more racist than Canada.

[tml12]

Actually, I would treat terrorism as a different phenomenon. One person can be a terrorist and not belong to a specific group. I was referring more to the identified and active hate groups, like those I listed. Plus we're getting way off topic. I simply wanted to indicate that, in my belief, the U.S. overall is more racist than Canada.

Newbie,

For sure I will respect your opinion but I don't think I can agree with it. I have scene racist events take place at times in both countries so I don't think I can say I have seen them in one country more than another. I should add that you are right that terrorism is a different phenomenon.

[YankAbroad]

I would treat terrorism as a different phenomenon

Yeah, I mean, everyone understands that terror doesn't grow out of hatred. . .

Heck, based on the SPLC's definition of hate groups, the Liberal Party of Canada could have been classified as a hate group based on its recent campaign commercials.

[tml12]

I would treat terrorism as a different phenomenon

Yeah, I mean, everyone understands that terror doesn't grow out of hatred. . .

Heck, based on the SPLC's definition of hate groups, the Liberal Party of Canada could have been classified as a hate group based on its recent campaign commercials.

But in terms of classifying groups, I wouldn't put al-Qaida and the KKK in the same category.

I would put the Liberal Party in a hate group all itself though...

[moderateamericain]

I would treat terrorism as a different phenomenon

Yeah, I mean, everyone understands that terror doesn't grow out of hatred. . .

Heck, based on the SPLC's definition of hate groups, the Liberal Party of Canada could have been classified as a hate group based on its recent campaign commercials.

But in terms of classifying groups, I wouldn't put al-Qaida and the KKK in the same category.

I would put the Liberal Party in a hate group all itself though...

Actually i do put Hate groups and terrorist into the same category. In alot of cases they work hand in hand. EX: 1960-1980's Ireland.

[tml12]

I would treat terrorism as a different phenomenon

Yeah, I mean, everyone understands that terror doesn't grow out of hatred. . .

Heck, based on the SPLC's definition of hate groups, the Liberal Party of Canada could have been classified as a hate group based on its recent campaign commercials.

But in terms of classifying groups, I wouldn't put al-Qaida and the KKK in the same category.

I would put the Liberal Party in a hate group all itself though...

Actually i do put Hate groups and terrorist into the same category. In alot of cases they work hand in hand. EX: 1960-1980's Ireland.

Worked the same way with the FLQ in Quebec so I can't disagree...

[Insom Elvis]

I feel honored to provide personal insight here, where in most of these forums I'm already under fire for my conservative thinking.

I am a white American living in a mixed community. I say mixed community because the entire country is now a mixed community. You might hear white people calling black people "niggers," but you'll notice they won't do it in front of a black cop. Some of us remain racist and will always hate those who are different from us, which is kind of B.S. because we stole this country in the first place. On the other hand, we were here before the blacks and I now have to protect my kids and watch whatever media input affects them becuase I don't want my daughter yo start thinking she's a "hot bitch wanting to get nizzle on some black dizzle." Pardon the pun. There are those of use who have combined black and white culture and see no difference, unfortunately it isn't the ancestral, tribal African culture but the street drug-dealer slang culture that has imposed itself. If you're black, you can come to this country at free will and explore as you like, same with the whites. On the other hand, if you are a respectable black or white person, wanting to show your kids what America is like in all its glory, good luck. If you come to my hometown near Las Vegas, you'll see a whole lot of white people in nice, big houses and 2 or 3 blacks with bandanas on, walking the streets. If you go into Vegas, you'll meet whites managing casinos, Blacks selling cars, Mexicans everywhere, whites selling drugs and blacks managing whores. Honestly the cultures have merged to the point where it almost doesnt even make a difference. If you're mad a black guy, he's a nigger. If you're black and you're mad at a white guy he's a cracker, and if you're mexican everyone's something I can't even pronounce. I do find it odd that you'd even worry about going to Yosemite. The national parks are one of our last conservations of what America is supposed to be like, just stay out of the cities and you're set. Don't pass up a trip to one of the most beautiful places in America because you dont want to hear the "N" word. You can hear the "N" word on half the movies you rent. Or maybe thats just here.

[YankAbroad]

And what created urban street culture?

A combination of racism ("white flight" from mixed neighbourhoods), coupled with socialism which created a dependent urban class.

[Insom Elvis]

And what created urban street culture?

A combination of racism ("white flight" from mixed neighbourhoods), coupled with socialism which created a dependent urban class.

Possibly. Anytime people from different cultures, religions, backgrounds, etc. end up in the same place by necessity, there are going to be problems. There don't have to be problems, but there are. A black guy might be mad at me because I don't give him a cigarette, instead of calling me a "non-cigarette giver" he'll propably call me a stuck up cracker. That's not quite racism, just the latter is more powerful. It's really not all that bad here though, I see a lot of acceptance. I don't like rap and the ghetto-style culture but I'm no bigot, I've had black friends. I'd be friends with a black before I was friends with a skinhead.

[TooInvolved]

I feel honored to provide personal insight here, where in most of these forums I'm already under fire for my conservative thinking.

I am a white American living in a mixed community. I say mixed community because the entire country is now a mixed community. You might hear white people calling black people "niggers," but you'll notice they won't do it in front of a black cop. Some of us remain racist and will always hate those who are different from us, which is kind of B.S. because we stole this country in the first place. On the other hand, we were here before the blacks and I now have to protect my kids and watch whatever media input affects them becuase I don't want my daughter yo start thinking she's a "hot bitch wanting to get nizzle on some black dizzle." Pardon the pun. There are those of use who have combined black and white culture and see no difference, unfortunately it isn't the ancestral, tribal African culture but the street drug-dealer slang culture that has imposed itself. If you're black, you can come to this country at free will and explore as you like, same with the whites. On the other hand, if you are a respectable black or white person, wanting to show your kids what America is like in all its glory, good luck. If you come to my hometown near Las Vegas, you'll see a whole lot of white people in nice, big houses and 2 or 3 blacks with bandanas on, walking the streets. If you go into Vegas, you'll meet whites managing casinos, Blacks selling cars, Mexicans everywhere, whites selling drugs and blacks managing whores. Honestly the cultures have merged to the point where it almost doesnt even make a difference. If you're mad a black guy, he's a nigger. If you're black and you're mad at a white guy he's a cracker, and if you're mexican everyone's something I can't even pronounce. I do find it odd that you'd even worry about going to Yosemite. The national parks are one of our last conservations of what America is supposed to be like, just stay out of the cities and you're set. Don't pass up a trip to one of the most beautiful places in America because you dont want to hear the "N" word. You can hear the "N" word on half the movies you rent. Or maybe thats just here.

You don't sound "conservative." Instead you sound rather racist, despite your protests. Your portrayal of us sounds like something straight from the movies or MTV. Or maybe you're just in a bad environment. Feel free to protect your daughter but don't think you're protecting her from black people in general, just your limited views of us.

...because we stole this country in the first place. On the other hand, we were here before the blacks...

At least you're acknowledging the despicable acts committed against Native Americans, whom I also count among my ancestors. But to say the country has been stolen suggests that it belongs to someone like a piece of property. It belongs to God. And to imply otherwise is mighty arrogant.

In addition, you sound as if you're saying arriving in America "before the blacks" entitles you to something. It doesn't.

[geoffrey]

You don't sound "conservative." Instead you sound rather racist, despite your protests. Your portrayal of us sounds like something straight from the movies or MTV. Or maybe you're just in a bad environment. Feel free to protect your daughter but don't think you're protecting her from black people in general, just your limited views of us.

...because we stole this country in the first place. On the other hand, we were here before the blacks...

At least you're acknowledging the despicable acts committed against Native Americans, whom I also count among my ancestors. But to say the country has been stolen suggests that it belongs to someone like a piece of property. It belongs to God. And to imply otherwise is mighty arrogant.

In addition, you sound as if you're saying arriving in America "before the blacks" entitles you to something. It doesn't.

Calling a spade a spade on this (no racism intended), the facts are like this:

Indians are not native to America (not a racist term by the way, legal classification in Canada is Status Indian, and this is even more accurate than 'Native')

White people are not native to America

Black people are not native to America

Asian people are not native to America

The white people just happened to decide to start the first federal states and from there the rest is history. Can't blame anyone for anyone else's problems here. Last time I checked, there was very little rape and pillage (relative to say... Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible) when any of these groups came over so lets be nice and all get along!

The claim that we were here before the blacks is ridiculous. While true, I really don't see why you would state that, it doesn't change anyone's right to exist here. If you want to be a Canadian, and subscribe to Canadian values (ya know, the peace, order and good government at the very least), come on in. Otherwise, get the hell out. Doesn't matter if your white, black, pink or purple.

By the same token, Indians should not be granted any special privledges, rights or programs. If they wish to go the self-governance method, which would be mighty generous of Canada, they should be self-sustaining. You can't have your government and eat Canada's too!!

[TooInvolved]

Calling a spade a spade on this (no racism intended), the facts are like this:

Indians are not native to America (not a racist term by the way, legal classification in Canada is Status Indian, and this is even more accurate than 'Native')

White people are not native to America

Black people are not native to America

Asian people are not native to America

The white people just happened to decide to start the first federal states and from there the rest is history. Can't blame anyone for anyone else's problems here. Last time I checked, there was very little rape and pillage (relative to say... Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible) when any of these groups came over so lets be nice and all get along!

The claim that we were here before the blacks is ridiculous. While true, I really don't see why you would state that, it doesn't change anyone's right to exist here. If you want to be a Canadian, and subscribe to Canadian values (ya know, the peace, order and good government at the very least), come on in. Otherwise, get the hell out. Doesn't matter if your white, black, pink or purple.

By the same token, Indians should not be granted any special privledges, rights or programs. If they wish to go the self-governance method, which would be mighty generous of Canada, they should be self-sustaining. You can't have your government and eat Canada's too!!

Hi,

You seem to be responding to both me and Insom at the same time, but I think you're attributing some of his/her comments to me incorrectly. Either way...

It wasn't Insom's, ahem, "Calling a spade a spade" that I took issue with. It was the unclear intent in doing so. I'm pretty sure Insom wasn't just stating that Blacks weren't the first to inhabit the US just for kicks. There was a deeper reason; I just don't know what it was. (and despite the fact that it's a maple leaf forum, Insom was focusing on the US. Note the title of the discussion.)

It's hard to say whether there was much rape and pillage among Native Americans or Indians. (I use the terms interchangeably.) When I was in school, they didn't teach much about Native Americans. But I suspect there was more strife than most people know among them. I also suspect Native American nations saw each other as just that: separate nations, and not as one big indistinguishable glob of red skins.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.

TI

[geoffrey]

Calling a spade a spade on this (no racism intended), the facts are like this:

Indians are not native to America (not a racist term by the way, legal classification in Canada is Status Indian, and this is even more accurate than 'Native')

White people are not native to America

Black people are not native to America

Asian people are not native to America

The white people just happened to decide to start the first federal states and from there the rest is history. Can't blame anyone for anyone else's problems here. Last time I checked, there was very little rape and pillage (relative to say... Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible) when any of these groups came over so lets be nice and all get along!

The claim that we were here before the blacks is ridiculous. While true, I really don't see why you would state that, it doesn't change anyone's right to exist here. If you want to be a Canadian, and subscribe to Canadian values (ya know, the peace, order and good government at the very least), come on in. Otherwise, get the hell out. Doesn't matter if your white, black, pink or purple.

By the same token, Indians should not be granted any special privledges, rights or programs. If they wish to go the self-governance method, which would be mighty generous of Canada, they should be self-sustaining. You can't have your government and eat Canada's too!!

Hi,

You seem to be responding to both me and Insom at the same time, but I think you're attributing some of his/her comments to me incorrectly. Either way...

It wasn't Insom's, ahem, "Calling a spade a spade" that I took issue with. It was the unclear intent in doing so. I'm pretty sure Insom wasn't just stating that Blacks weren't the first to inhabit the US just for kicks. There was a deeper reason; I just don't know what it was. (and despite the fact that it's a maple leaf forum, Insom was focusing on the US. Note the title of the discussion.)

It's hard to say whether there was much rape and pillage among Native Americans or Indians. (I use the terms interchangeably.) When I was in school, they didn't teach much about Native Americans. But I suspect there was more strife than most people know among them. I also suspect Native American nations saw each other as just that: separate nations, and not as one big indistinguishable glob of red skins.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.

TI

I didn't intend to draw you two together at all. You seem a very reasonable person, while some days I have my doubts about Insom.

There definitely was more to his comment about the 'we were here before blacks' and I didn't find this acceptable at all, hence the previous post.

There were widespread abuses to Indians in some situations. Residential schools would be one example of an unacceptable treatment of children. However, these mistakes are not my mistakes and I feel it would be rather racist to hold other white people (as well as every other ethnicity in Canada) accountable for the mistakes of our ancestors.

It would be like me saying that because the Jew's killed Jesus we should hate them all, its a ridiculous argument and can't be supported. No one should be held responsible for someone else's actions, especially someone who's probably not directly related and has been dead for a few hundred years.

[TooInvolved]

OK. Gotcha.

[Darth Buddha]

I spent my last two summers in northern Ontario and I run down to northern Minnesota to visit family on the weekends. It seems like every visit I am appalled at the sheer amount of racism and homophobia there. I know Canada isn't perfect with respect to tolerance (we have come a long way in my opinion) but in all my life I have never heard the word "nigger" spoken outloud, yet everytime I go visit I hear it over and over again. Somehow my family never caught this "racist" bug or else I would have stopped visiting long ago and only my love for my family keeps me going back. However, my patience is pushed to the limit when I encounter other Americans shouting out the N word or saying things like "they have blacks working there now... ah shit" or "those damn Indians". So basically... I want to ask you people who probably know the US a hell of a lot more than I do if the rest of the US is like that because my cousin wants to do a road trip to Yellowstone at the end of July? Will I go out of my mind? Thanks

Nope, not all of the U.S. has remaining racial or orientation baggage. Try Providence in Rhode Island. It's a veritable San Francisco East. The funny thing THERE was I made quite a few gay and lesbian friends, and they kept being shocked by how many traits they had in common with a heterosexual like me. The best quote was "I guess guys are just guys whether they are gay or straight" from a buddy of mine who is gay. On the racial level, I found that my middle class black neighbors in an apartment/condominium complex outside a major eastern city were more friendly to me (a white male) than my white and asian neighbors. One such white neighbor (a female that I suppose was attractive though not my type who was VERY PREGNANT) was affronted when I said hi and told me "we don't do that around here." My next door black neighbor (who was downright beautiful) on the other hand was willing to chat for a good long time without assuming I had some nefarious intention.

I have never used the 'N' word, and would verbally lambaste anyone who used the term no matter what the context. Surprisingly, counter to your experience, I have found only very few Americans who use the term north of the Mason Dixon line. Race & gender relations vary a lot by location. The Northeast is not the South or the Midwest, and in some ways has more in common with California.

I prefer figuring out why they are pissed off at the indians or those 'blacks'. You see, one common fault with left-wing thinking is that if your a minority then tolerance forgives all. It doesn't, in fact I am disgusted with how much first nations and other minorities can get away with that, should a caucasion attempt it, would result in jail time and/or fines.

True tyranny has always entered society under the veil of tolerance and understanding, I am at least glad the US citizens aren't afraid to voice their concerns over minorities.

I am not supporting actual racism, but I do know that certain minorities do deserve the bad name they have earned on an individual basis. I live in Alberta with Peigan and Blood reserves in the area, and I see our homeless shelters filled with first nations drunks and druggies, I have had friends jumped at night by groups of them, I have had to work with them (and hire them at times) and they have the worst work ethics I have ever seen, and while the rest of the province is working to build ourselves up they are wandering the streets wasted out of their minds wearing clothes and drinking booze our tax dollars paid for.

However, that being said, I also personally know alot of First Nations that aren't at all like that, I know some who work hard for a living, who have better work ethics than white people I have hired, who haven't touched alcohol in their lives, who are going somewhere.

Like I said, judge them based on an individual basis... the problem is, there is just such a higher % of these minorities that are bums than there are caucasions. So I think the same thing will apply down south =p

Ironically the government keeps creating these barriers to 'protect' the minorities, yet all it does is continue to break us more apart. You can't create an equal society by building barriers, and in the case of First Nations in Canada it is only serving to cripple and hurt them.

Update your thinking, and look up the NAACP's actions to help a WHITE man get his radio job back. Then look up the way elected Democrats abandoned the congresswoman who is trying to get a pass on punching a Capitol Policeman by playing the race card. When the NAACP is helping white folks who accidentally mispoke and elected Democrats won't appear with an errant black congresswoman, it's a sign "the left" is developing some sense on race.

Especially if you happen to be using the far right's definition of "left" that encompasses anyone who isn't as extreme as they, e.g. the supposedly "liberal" Republican Senator, Arlen Spector, and many a conservative Democrat as well. I'm fairly sure you aren't, but you need to be careful using terms like "left" and "liberal" these days: the uber-right neocons have driven the likes of many a registered Moderate Republican out of the party. That kind of intolerance within their own party is almost fascist, not rightist, but it seems a majority of registered Republicans think that way.

Friends of mine moved to North Carolina a few years ago, and in preparation for the move checked out the websites of several of the schools in the area. These public schools had a breakdown of the average child's grade point average defined by their age, gender, and race. 6 year old black boys, 6 year old white boys, 6 year old black girls, 6 year old white girls, etc. Also, when they got drivers licences, there is a spot on the licence for race - you designate whether you are white, black, or other. The argument was that you just needed to know, not that it was a judgment or anything. Yeah, right.

With this kind of entrenched discrimination still practiced and justified as "just keeping track of the demographics", no wonder racism is still as widespread as it is. Can you picture any school in Canada posting grade point averages of 6 year old white boys, 6 year old native boys, on their website?

Those are school statistics that I believe are still required by law these days, and I am well aware of families that have chosen schools with larger minority attendance over schools that manage to be somewhat segregated despite a slew of Supreme Court rulings.

Moreover, race on a driver's license is a statistic that is indeed used in law enforcement and appears in many strongly Democratic states and not just in the south. Race relations in the South and Midwest are not generally what they are in the Northeast, but the mere existence of said statistics or elements on a driver's liscenses is as fallacious as one can get. Check out execution rates and conviction rates if you want some stats that are more relevant.

The biggest problems concerning people who are racist are that the poeple don't believe they're racist. Since racism is all relative and a matter of opinon, everyone feels that they are correct about their views on the world and how things are. For example: I come from a fairly conservative family, but i'm dating a highly liberal girl. When she came over one day my mom was nervous and trying to make a good impression. She made a slightly racist joke, and now my girlfriend thinks my mom is a crazy nazi or something. She also thinks i'll catch this racist bug, and it drives me up the wall how she can be so snesitive and i can't see what she sees.

Hmm... racial or gay jokes don't necessarily mean the speaker is racist. When drinking with a gay friend, he tells the gay jokes and I tell the straight jokes. I've even told Scot and Irish jokes whilst a black friend told racial jokes about blacks from the Islands, and know an Aussie who has some killer Aussie jokes. So the use of such jokes isn't a 100% diagnostic. On the flip side, I'd be very wary of dating across a racial divide such as you've described, just as I would not ever again date a fervent religious type as they far too often end up demonizing a well read agnostic (I don't know and YOU DON'T EITHER!) such as myself. I don't blame your girlfriend's caution, but I think she should discuss matters with you to ascertain the underlying truth rather than watching you for examples where you "slip up" in her eyes.

Both Canada and the US have very serious race problems.

It is much worse in the US however.

In the US, segregation continues in the form of suburbia. Whites live in the 'burbs, the rest live in the cities.

In Canada, most minorities live in the city and the burbs, and about half of all aboriginals live on the reserves.

Your suburbia example is party proven false by the growth of the black middle class who ALSO lives in suburbia. This trend will only continue.

[Oddman]

Calling a spade a spade on this (no racism intended), the facts are like this:

Indians are not native to America (not a racist term by the way, legal classification in Canada is Status Indian, and this is even more accurate than 'Native')

White people are not native to America

Black people are not native to America

Asian people are not native to America

The white people just happened to decide to start the first federal states and from there the rest is history. Can't blame anyone for anyone else's problems here. Last time I checked, there was very little rape and pillage (relative to say... Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible) when any of these groups came over so lets be nice and all get along!

The claim that we were here before the blacks is ridiculous. While true, I really don't see why you would state that, it doesn't change anyone's right to exist here. If you want to be a Canadian, and subscribe to Canadian values (ya know, the peace, order and good government at the very least), come on in. Otherwise, get the hell out. Doesn't matter if your white, black, pink or purple.

By the same token, Indians should not be granted any special privledges, rights or programs. If they wish to go the self-governance method, which would be mighty generous of Canada, they should be self-sustaining. You can't have your government and eat Canada's too!!

Hi,

You seem to be responding to both me and Insom at the same time, but I think you're attributing some of his/her comments to me incorrectly. Either way...

It wasn't Insom's, ahem, "Calling a spade a spade" that I took issue with. It was the unclear intent in doing so. I'm pretty sure Insom wasn't just stating that Blacks weren't the first to inhabit the US just for kicks. There was a deeper reason; I just don't know what it was. (and despite the fact that it's a maple leaf forum, Insom was focusing on the US. Note the title of the discussion.)

It's hard to say whether there was much rape and pillage among Native Americans or Indians. (I use the terms interchangeably.) When I was in school, they didn't teach much about Native Americans. But I suspect there was more strife than most people know among them. I also suspect Native American nations saw each other as just that: separate nations, and not as one big indistinguishable glob of red skins.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.

TI

I didn't intend to draw you two together at all. You seem a very reasonable person, while some days I have my doubts about Insom.

There definitely was more to his comment about the 'we were here before blacks' and I didn't find this acceptable at all, hence the previous post.

There were widespread abuses to Indians in some situations. Residential schools would be one example of an unacceptable treatment of children. However, these mistakes are not my mistakes and I feel it would be rather racist to hold other white people (as well as every other ethnicity in Canada) accountable for the mistakes of our ancestors.

It would be like me saying that because the Jew's killed Jesus we should hate them all, its a ridiculous argument and can't be supported. No one should be held responsible for someone else's actions, especially someone who's probably not directly related and has been dead for a few hundred years.

I thought the Romans had killed Jesus...but wait, didn't he marry and have kids? Yeah, that's right...nobody killed Jesus!!

[MightyAC]

I was listening to the radio in Florida and the station was giving away passes to a grapefruit league game and autograph session. The shows host burst into his own rendition of "Take me out to the ball game" but he changed the lyrics. Instead of "Buy me some peanuts and cracker jacks, I don't care if I never get back", he sang "Buy me some peanuts and cracker jacks, just don't make me sit with the blacks” The host and co-host then proceeded to laugh hysterically and tell racist jokes.

I was blown away. I'm from Southern Ontario and I come across the occasional racist...typically they're elderly...but I was completely surprised that this occurred on the radio. Not all Americans are racists and not all Canadians are sensitive to race issues but from my experience it is definitely more prevalent in Florida for sure. Although, from what some friends and relatives tell me racism is more common in Alberta as well.

[Michael Hardner]

Don't forget Quebeckers...

And especially foreigners....

Strange, but true...