Tory support plummets

[willy]

Sparhawh, thank you for restoring my faith in this forum. You are actually debating.

I will respond more latter when I have more time.

Here is a little tid bit. The vast majority of people do get good health care and it is from our GPs who run private businesses and get paid by government insurance.

The wait times have more to do with the hospital system.

We are also on the edge of a bigger problem as the age bubble with doctors is extreme and in the next ten years the challenge of finding a family physician will only get worse. Consider that health care has the lowest morale numbers of any profession in Canada, the retention and recruitment of new skill workers will be tough.

[Riverwind]

The wait times have more to do with the hospital system.

I suspect we will agree that the supreme court ruling is the best thing that has happened to system in a long time. Martin will have to be judged by how he handles this ruling. I am very glad to hear the media repeating the message that European countries have a private/public health care mix which should help people get over their fear of the US system (which really should be feared - it is probably the worse system in the world).

[Fortunata]

What about NAFTA? If private health care becomes legal (recognized) then don't the USA corps have the right to move in under NAFTA? Then don't those corps file claims under NAFTA that the public system is infringing on their territory? If so, then we do become a USA system, which has already been pointed out as probably the worst in the western world.

[Riverwind]

What about NAFTA? If private health care becomes legal (recognized) then don't the USA corps have the right to move in under NAFTA?  Then don't those corps file claims under NAFTA that the public system is infringing on their territory?  If so, then we do become a USA system, which has already been pointed out as probably the worst in the western world.

NAFTA only requires equal treatment of US and Mexican companies. In other words, NAFTA does not prevent Canada from having rules that are completely different from the US which llimit the participation of private insurers in the market place. The only caveat is gov't must be sure the rules are clear and should go slowly because it will be near impossible to change the rules after the fact.

That said, the gov't probably could require any US company that wishes to enter the marketplace sign an agreement of understanding that warns them in advance that gov't regulations will change constantly over the next decade or so as Canadians figure out what they want to do. Companies that are not prepared to accept that should stay out of the marketplace.

[Muddyw67]

I think the main problem with the Conservative Party as it's currently constituted is that it refuses to accept the fact that Canadians by in large are not reactionaries, neo cons and Christian zealots based on the US Republican Party model. Certainty there is a large moderate conservative constituency in Canada but it is closer to the old Red Tory model then the Reform-Alliance cadre of bigots and believers in a 6000 year old Planet Earth. Stephen Harper is the quintessential representative of this model perhaps without the zealotry of Preston Manning. The Conservatives also appear to be a regional party-although the same might be said about the Liberals- whose base is clearly fixed in Alberta and the Fraser Valley in BC. These folks tend to dine on imagined grievances and a visceral distrust of Central Canada that Westerners have had nourished in the collective psyches so long that it seems to have become part of the DNA. They need to lose Harper ditch the social conservatism and their reflex supine worshiping of George Bush's America.Then They might have a chance at convincing the majority of Canadians to give them the keys to the office. They will never win my trust though- as my dad use to say an old CCFer"Tory times are hard times" And that is an axiom that never changes

[Cartman]

Conservatives cannot accept that they do not get elected because they are not offering what most people want. They always blame Liberal scare tactics and that is just not true. I am no Liberal myself, but I think that most Canadians like much of what they offer.

[Argus]

Conservatives cannot accept that they do not get elected because they are not offering what most people want.

Enormous government, expensive support programs, grants and economic incentive programs at minimal taxes?

The thing is, the Liberals offer what people want - but then they never actually give it to them. Unfortunately, they have pegged the shallow nature and limited attention span of the average voter in most urban centres pretty well.

You want to know how to get elected? First, pick a pretty face with a smooth voice as a leader. He doesn't have to have any intelligence, experience, ideas or honesty. That doesn't really matter. Then, you do polls to find out what people want. You offer them that, with your smooth talker simplifying everything down to the most basic level - and smiling a lot. It really doesn't matter if you intend to deliver any of those things, either. Canadians will forgive.

This is basically what the Tories need to do.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Your post exemplifies exactly the

problem. You cannot, will not, accept the basic facts of your milieu.

... the shallow nature and limited attention span of the average voter in most urban centres pretty well.

Prejudice and disdain will not win votes.

You want to know how to get elected? First, pick a pretty face with a smooth voice as a leader.

You need to move away from strategy based on fantasy and imagination. You think Chretien was a pretty face and a smooth voice?

He doesn't have to have any intelligence, experience, ideas or honesty.

Oh yeah? Why didn't this work for Stock or Firewall then?

Then, you do polls to find out what people want. You offer them that, ...

You think it's more practical to oppose the voters and deny their wishes!?!?