How Racist Is Canada and......

[Riverwind]

The point is that there wasn't a war that was lost.  We didn't do battle with the aboriginal people and take their land.  We showed up and hung out long past our welcome.  Now we're forcing them to conform to our lifestyle because there's more of us here, when we're staying on their land with their consent.  It was supposed to be held in trust to them and we've just decided it's ours and they can piss off.

I fail to see the distinction. About 1000 years ago some marauding Saxons showed up in a little land called Anglia. Took the land away from the traditional Anglo chiefs and set up shop and they never left.

I am sure the 'plight' of the Anlgos in Saxon ruled England was ever bit as bad as the plight of Natives in Canada. However, the anglos and the saxons eventually merged to create a new identity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I shudder to think what England would be like today if their were still two classes of citizens depending on whether they were descendents of the Angles or the Saxons.

[kimmy]

People of non-white races and from very different cultures are able to come to Canada and build very successful lives within a generation or two. So it seems to me that pinning the natives' plight on race or culture just doesn't capture the reality of the situation.

How is it that natives seem to be perpetually mired in poverty and social problems, while so many Asian immigrants seem to find success in Canada so quickly? What's the big difference between natives and Asian immigrants? My guess is that it's the reserves.

People keep asking why the natives should have to give up their way of life. Well, does any group anywhere in the world have the ability to ignore the passage of time? What way of life are people advocating the natives should be able to maintain, anyway? Surely the existence on today's reserves bears little resemblance to the lifestyle natives had in years gone by.

If maintaining their traditions means continuing to hunt and trap, hey, go ahead... some of my relatives do that stuff too in their spare time. There's really nothing stopping them. If they want to maintain their languages and spiritual practices and cultural activities and clothes, that's great. Hundreds of other cultures in Canada do too, and somehow manage it without state support. Unlike the natives, other groups and cultures manage to do this stuff while participating in the world of today.

-k

[August1991]

How is it that natives seem to be perpetually mired in poverty and social problems, while so many Asian immigrants seem to find success in Canada so quickly? What's the big difference between natives and Asian immigrants? My guess is that it's the reserves.

Kimmy, if you ever go to China and see many people mired in poverty, you might have part of the answer.

Immigrants make a concious decision to change their lives, usually for their children. I think this idea becomes part of family folklore even generations later.

What family stories do Native Indians tell?

There are three groups in North America that pose "problems".  Black Americans, Native Indians and the French.  All three groups did not choose to be here.

Deal with it. The natives aren't getting their land back. They'll have to acclimate to our society. It's that basic. The reason their lives are so crappy is because they're living in small, isolated groups in uneconomical areas where there are no jobs or industry. The reserves don't work and should be abolished.

I don't disagree with you, Argus. But obviously, nobody's been dealing with it very well.

The Canadian way (land claims and self-rule) of dealing with Native Indians is veryt different from the American way (integration) of dealing with Blacks, yet neither has been successful - or as successful as the immigrant experience.

BTW, almost all the Blacks in Canada not only chose to be here many fought very hard to get here. Nevertheless, they still are a huge problem in that by most accounts they are responsible for a huge chunk of our street crime and murders.

The situation of Blacks in the two countries is very different. Blacks in Canada still largely identify with their country of origin, and that raises other points.

As for the French, their problem is arrogance. They should lose a little of that. Their language and culture are not particularly special and not particularly worthy of all the desperate efforts at retaining them.

French-speaking Canadians have shown a remarkable ability to adapt to circumstances. I think that is a good predictor of survivability.

[Argus]

Like it or not you can't expect isolated little groups to survive living out in the boonies. They need to join our society because that's where the jobs and opportunities and industry is. It's idiotic to suggest they should stay out in the boonies like living museum relics to trot out to tourists occasionally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The point is that there wasn't a war that was lost. We didn't do battle with the aboriginal people and take their land. We showed up and hung out long past our welcome. Now we're forcing them to conform to our lifestyle because there's more of us here, when we're staying on their land with their consent. It was supposed to be held in trust to them and we've just decided it's ours and they can piss off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's all very well and good but it fails to address the problem. We're not going to give the country back, and they can't survive in isolated rural ghetoes without turning into welfare dependant losers, alcoholics and criminals.

[cybercoma]

That's all very well and good but it fails to address the problem. We're not going to give the country back, and they can't survive in isolated rural ghetoes without turning into welfare dependant losers, alcoholics and criminals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What should we do? Obviously handing them money isn't working...

[August1991]

What should we do? Obviously handing them money isn't working...

We don't really hand them money. We hand the band councils money.

[cybercoma]

What should we do? Obviously handing them money isn't working...

We don't really hand them money. We hand the band councils money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Free education and tax exemption is handing them an awful lot of money.

If I had a free education I'd easily be making several times more money than I'm making now. Unfortunately, due to my financial situation, it hasn't been possible to afford that luxury yet.

Add to that the fact that they're tax exempt and you put a hell of a lot of money directly into their pockets.

[bigdude]

Just like health care, education, all forms of it, should be paid for out of general taxes, or if career oriented, put back on the backs of employers, when it previously was, and certainly belongs

Participants offereded free education will easily pay back 10 fold in taxes what their education costs.

After deductions for the white burocracies, I wonder how much the band councils actually get per capita.

[Argus]

Just like health care, education, all forms of it, should be paid for out of general taxes, or if career oriented, put back on the backs of employers, when it previously was, and certainly belongs

Participants offereded free education will easily pay back 10 fold in taxes what their education costs.

Quite possibly true. But you might consider how sympathetic many Canadians are who have struggled for years to repay their large student loans.

[cybercoma]

Just like health care, education, all forms of it, should be paid for out of general taxes, or if career oriented, put back on the backs of employers, when it previously was, and certainly belongs

Participants offereded free education will easily pay back 10 fold in taxes what their education costs.

After deductions for the white burocracies, I wonder how much the band councils actually get per capita.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do I get the feeling you'd seriously humour the idea of giving all your money to the government and letting them redistribute it as they see fit?