Accusations

[The Terrible Sweal]

Have your say.

[ScottBrison]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists. I mean it only makes sence right? If one or perhaps a few of them did it they must all think that same way right?

So, to all the CONs out there who think the entire Liberal party is corrupt, get your partisan heads out of your azzes.

[cybercoma]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists. I mean it only makes sence right? If one or perhaps a few of them did it they must all think that same way right?

So, to all the CONs out there who think the entire Liberal party is corrupt, get your partisan heads out of your azzes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A single MP making an off the cuff comment and an entire party supporting a scheme for Liberals and their buddies to get rich off taxpayers money are just slightly different things.

[ScottBrison]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists. I mean it only makes sence right? If one or perhaps a few of them did it they must all think that same way right?

So, to all the CONs out there who think the entire Liberal party is corrupt, get your partisan heads out of your azzes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A single MP making an off the cuff comment and an entire party supporting a scheme for Liberals and their buddies to get rich off taxpayers money are just slightly different things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh s**t! That's right! you guys have proof it was the entire party! I forgot! It must be on that part of the Grewald tape that they haven't released yet, right next to the grassy knoll gun that was used to kill Kennedy, and the map to Jimmy Hoffa's final resting place......

[Redneck Savage]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists. I mean it only makes sence right? If one or perhaps a few of them did it they must all think that same way right?

So, to all the CONs out there who think the entire Liberal party is corrupt, get your partisan heads out of your azzes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A single MP making an off the cuff comment and an entire party supporting a scheme for Liberals and their buddies to get rich off taxpayers money are just slightly different things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh s**t! That's right! you guys have proof it was the entire party! I forgot! It must be on that part of the Grewald tape that they haven't released yet, right next to the grassy knoll gun that was used to kill Kennedy, and the map to Jimmy Hoffa's final resting place......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Brison, I thought Liberals we supposed to me middle of the road?

You don't sound very middle of the road to me. Taking notes from rightwinger?

[The Terrible Sweal]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists. I mean it only makes sence right? If one or perhaps a few of them did it they must all think that same way right?

Oh, I like Con llogic!  Stockwell Day was leader of an education institution that taught that democracy was wrong because it elevates man over God.  Therefore ALL Conservatives oppose democracy.

[kimmy]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists. I mean it only makes sence right? If one or perhaps a few of them did it they must all think that same way right?

Oh, I like Con llogic! Stockwell Day was leader of an education institution that taught that democracy was wrong because it elevates man over God. Therefore ALL Conservatives oppose democracy.

And apparently Liberal logic is that it's always a good time to change the subject. You're taking your own thread off topic. How does that make you feel?

I don't think the claim is that "ALL LIBERALS" are corrupt. Just that the extent of the criminal activities, and the highly-placed positions of the participants, makes the claim that "it's just some Rogue Elements™" somewhat strained.

-k

[The Terrible Sweal]

You're taking your own thread off topic. How does that make you feel?

1) I don't think I'm off topic.

2) Even if I were, I don't see they time.

I don't think the claim is that "ALL LIBERALS" are corrupt.  Just that the extent of the criminal activities, and the highly-placed positions of the participants,

This suggests you have not folllowed Harpers' comments over the last few months carefully.

[kimmy]

Harper has not accused all individuals within the party of being corrupt. He has accused the party of being a corrupt organization; a fair case can be made that it is.

-k

edited to add:

1) I don't think I'm off topic.

You wanted to discuss the accusations against the Liberals, and 3 posts later we're talking about Stockwell Day's religious kookery. What's next, dinosaurs?

2) Even if I were, I don't see they time.

Each time I read this, I find it more cryptic.

[PocketRocket]

Well, back to the topic, if I may....

What about "None of the above" as a choice???

I think the Cons are doing what would come naturally to ANY political party.

They are taking advantage of a major blunder by certain people within the Liberal party, and attempting to use it to their advantage.

It's called, get this, "Politics".

Imagine that!!!

[The Terrible Sweal]

2) Even if I were, I don't see they time.

Each time I read this, I find it more cryptic.

Freaky isn't it. I have no idea what I was trying to say there.

[takeanumber]

When are the charges against Grewal and the CPC leadership coming.

Wiretapping without consent is illegal in Canada.

I want to know why the double standard?

[August1991]

Wiretapping without consent is illegal in Canada.

That is simply false. Police would require a court order or have some probable cause. That is not the case here though. It was a private conversation taped by one of the participants and that's perfectly legal.

There could be some issue about whether Grewal's tape would be admissible as evidence.

----

The morality of Grewal's action is another issue again. However, in my experience, we often consider morality in light of our own self-interest.

[fellowtraveller]

Wiretapping without consent is illegal in Canada.

He didn't 'wiretap'. In any case, recording any conversation to which you are a party is definitely not illegal.

As for the Liberals, is it unreasonable for a taxpayer - like me- to expect a higher standard of conduct from my government than the systematic theft of my money for the direct benefit of the Liberal Party?

To equate the actions of Grewal and those of the Liberal Party of Canada would be laughable, except that so many otherwise intelligent people seek to link them in some astonishing stretch of moral relativism. Truly bizarre.

[Argus]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists.

Are you really so incredibly, revoltingly ignorant as to call Fletcher a racist because he was talking about Japanese soldiers in world war two and used his grandfather's terms?

[ScottBrison]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists.

Are you really so incredibly, revoltingly ignorant as to call Fletcher a racist because he was talking about Japanese soldiers in world war two and used his grandfather's terms?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

being called ignorant by someone who supports a Conservative is one of the greatest compliments one could obtain. I am truly greatful for your high praise.

[Argus]

Have your say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Liberal Party of Canada has been the centre of corruption in this country my entire life. Going back to Trudeau's deals with local developers which made Liberal supporters wealthy through Chretien's kickbacks and extortion schemes to Martin writing the tax laws to benefit his companies and himself. They are all corrupt. If the Auditor General went through the books of the entire government the way she did at that one small section of Public Works she'd find the exact same thing happening everywhere; overpriced goods and services funnelling money into the pockets of Liberals and those who donate to the Liberal Party, laws and tax code changes made at the behest of those who donate to the Liberal Party, and fat, smug, overpaid Liberals sitting in hundreds if not thousands of jobs for which they are unqualified, or which don't even need to be done.

If Chretien backed a truck up to the vaults of the Bank of Canada and unloaded a million bucks to give to his pal we'd call that theft. But he can invent a job, oh, say "Ambassador to the Environment" give it a quarter million annual salary, and then give it to a corrupt friend like Gilbert Parent with a five year sinecure, and everyone seems to think that's peachy keen.

And for his quarter million per year, Parent occasionally rides first class (at our expense) to places like London, Paris, and Rome, where he stays at five star hotels (at our expense), goes to top restaurants (at our expense) and attends the occasional dinner party or ball. Nice work if you can get it.

But that's not corrupt, eh?

It's not corrupt that a small, private, rural Quebec airport which happens to be the main entry for Chretien's wealthy friends and in-laws to go to their summer cottage gets more grants for improvements from the government than the entire province of Alberta. Nope.

[August1991]

Argus, I won't quote your whole thread, but I agree entirely. I could add anecdotes of my own but I won't. Instead, I'll add this:

Paul Desmarais Sr., the kingpin behind Montreal's Power Corp., was having a little housewarming party at his 10,000-ha Xanadu at Sagard, in Quebec's Charlevoix region. The guest list was reported to include Jean Chrétien, Bill Clinton, Lucien Bouchard, Sarah Ferguson. Paul Martin was in the process of wrapping up delegate selection for the November leadership convention. Among his 60 or 80 top priorities was improving relations with the U.S. He spent part of the weekend at Sagard in a golf foursome with Brian Mulroney, Paul Desmarais Jr. and Martin's carefully selected golfing partner, George Bush Sr.

Macleans - Paul Wells (Click down to 'Flashback')

If I'm not mistaken, Rogers now owns Maclean-Hunter. (And according to memory, Wells made a joke about sitting at the Rogers' table during an Ottawa "sponsorship" dinner.)

----

When the NDP advocates economic nationalism (and anti-Americanism), they argue in effect to keep a small pond for a few "big" Desmarais and Rogers fish.

Bill Gates was chosen by the market; Paul Desmarais was chosen by a politician. I don't care if someone is a heck of alot richer than I am, but I do care how those people are chosen. Why? Because my own livelihood is dependent on the competence of the person chosen.

----

For awhile, I thought Stephen Harper might become PM. I don't think so now. He's too much an outsider.

[takeanumber]

Alright, if it's really true that you can wiretap in Canada (which I think is just fucking insane...what ever happened to privacy?): onto the substance of the tapes.

I've read what has been released on the transcripts.

From what I can tell, they're just wasting time talking. They sound like two old hens going on and on and on about nothing.

Here's how it reads to me:

Grewal: I'm for sale. How much?

GoBetween: Well, what's your price?

Grewal: Senate seat.

GoBetween: I don't think that's possible.

Grewal: Senate seat.

GoBetween: Well, abstain and who knows.

Now, Grewal is clearly leaking this out in dribs and drabs...

[Argus]

I'll use "Conservative Logic" on this one:

Steven Fletcher called Japanese People Jap B******s, and he's a Conservative, so therefore all Conservatives must be racists.

Are you really so incredibly, revoltingly ignorant as to call Fletcher a racist because he was talking about Japanese soldiers in world war two and used his grandfather's terms?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

being called ignorant by someone who supports a Conservative is one of the greatest compliments one could obtain. I am truly greatful for your high praise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't call you ignorant. I asked if you were, and you somewhat proudly confirmed the fact. I guess ignorance really is bliss.

Fletcher is dead below the neck. But you are evidence that the reverse can be a much more limiting condition.

[PocketRocket]

There could be some issue about whether Grewal's tape would be admissible as evidence.

In a court of law, you may be right.

But politics is played out in the court of public opinion, and so this tape could be very damaging, if it's used correctly.