Social Conservative Party of Canada

[The Terrible Sweal]

Did someone here make this point already? Was it me?

The Glob and Maul:

OTTAWA -- Christian activists have secured Conservative nominations in clusters of ridings from Vancouver to Halifax -- a political penetration that has occurred even as the party tries to distance itself from hard-line social conservatism.

... organizers say many more will be on the ballot during the next federal election, ...

Some Conservatives argue that the selection of a large number of candidates from the religious right is an unfortunate turn for a party that was accused in last year's election campaign of harbouring a socially conservative "hidden agenda."

...Others within the party say they are extremely concerned and wished the party leaders had been more involved in the nominations.

But Tristan Emmanuel -- the Presbyterian minister whose endorsement at the Kentville rally aided the nominations of Andrew House in Halifax, Rakesh Khosla in Halifax West and Paul Francis in Sackville-Eastern Shore -- makes no apologies.

"It's time we stopped apologizing and started defending who we are," he said. "The evangelical community in Canada, by and large, and socially conservative Catholics, are saying we have been far too heavenly minded and thus we have been of no earthly value for far too long, on too many fronts."

Mr. Emmanuel runs the Equipping Christians for the Public Square Centre, which teaches people of his faith to become political. He is reluctant to say how many adherents have obtained Conservative nominations because he is afraid the news media will portray the campaign as the infiltration of the party by "right-wing fanatics."

But "it's happening everywhere, especially in urban ridings and in Ontario," he said. ...

... John Reynolds, the retiring Conservative MP who ran the party's nomination process, said the fact that social conservatives have won his party's nominations is simply a function of democracy.

... Mr. Reynolds is offended by attempts to paint the Conservative party as a harbour for religious zealots.

"There were three dozen Liberals who voted with us on the same-sex thing," he said. "Nobody is going after them and saying, 'Look at these far-right Christians that got into the Liberal Party.' "

If reporters who write about Christian fundamentalists taking over his party were to "insert the word Jew everywhere you've put Christian, do you think they would let you print it?" he asked. "I doubt it."

Darrel Reid, the party's candidate in Richmond, B.C., is a past president of Focus on the Family. Cindy Silver, who will run for the Tories in North Vancouver, was the executive director of the Christian Legal Fellowship for two years in the 1990s. Marc Dalton in New Westminster-Burnaby has been the pastor of a community church in Burnaby.

... Ms. Silver, a lawyer in the federal Justice Department, objects to being labelled a Christian candidate. "That's a form of discrimination," she said. "That's putting them in a class of people and ascribing to them the characteristics of that class without ever giving them a chance to stand on their own merits."

But other candidates clearly relied on their churches to promote their nomination.

Rondo Thomas beat former Conservative MP René Soetens for the nomination in Ajax, on the eastern edge of Toronto. Dr. Thomas is a top official with the Canada Christian College, which is run by Charles McVety, a senior director of the Defend Marriage [for some] Coalition.

"The Defend Marriage [for some] Coalition engaged in a concerted effort to help pro-marriage candidates become nominated," Dr. McVety said.

"There is a desire to see pro-marriage [for some] nominees as candidates right across the country. We know that we have 141 pro-marriage [for some] MPs now and our hope is to achieve a pro-marriage [for some] Parliament."

There has been no specific drive to infiltrate the Conservatives, Dr. McVety said. Some religious Liberals have been nominated as well. But the Tories have taken the lion's share, he said, probably because of the party's opposition to changing the definition of marriage.

...Dr. McVety expresses no uneasiness with his efforts.

"The distortion of the separation of church and state has driven people of faith out of leadership and this is very wrong," he said.

[willy]

So a dozen Christians will run for the Conservatives. Is it okay they have Jews, Muslims and Hindus run as well? I heard they had some secular libertarians running and an agnostic.

This is bigotry. Look at the individuals and their merits. If the ridings vote them in I guess they deserve the right to represent that riding. If not they don't.

John Weston that will be running in Reynolds old riding and is a great example of a candidate with great merits that happens to be Christian. Until I read the media today I did not know he was a Christian. I knew he was working hard for a few months to sign up new members and he has an impressive background in aboriginal legal issues. I have met him many times and his faith has never come up. He is a strong candidate and if he does not make his faith a political issue the media shouldn’t.

Say isn't our PM a Catholic?

[The Terrible Sweal]

So a dozen Christians will run for the Conservatives. Is it okay they have Jews, Muslims and Hindus run as well? I heard they had some secular libertarians running and an agnostic.

This is bigotry.

Bigotry my eye.

These people are there as part of a concerted effort to advance a point of view and/or policy agenda. It is perfectly fair for voters to recognize this and question whether this is an agenda that suits us or not.

[willy]

These people are there as part of a concerted effort to advance a point of view and/or policy agenda.

What politician does not have a point of view or policy agenda? If they really have a narrow focus on a single issue they won’t get elected.

[The Terrible Sweal]

These people are there as part of a concerted effort to advance a point of view and/or policy agenda.

What politician does not have a point of view or policy agenda? If they really have a narrow focus on a single issue they won’t get elected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe everyone has a point of view or policy agenda. In politics it is not 'bigotry' for the voters to judge them on it. It is what the voters are supposed to do.

[Black Dog]

He is a strong candidate and if he does not make his faith a political issue the media shouldn’t.

Willy, willy, willy: I don't understand why you can't get your head around why this is troublesome. No one cares what personal beliefs politicians hold. It's when those personal views begin to influence public policy that people get a little antsy.

Statements like:

"It's time we stopped apologizing and started defending who we are," he said. "The evangelical community in Canada, by and large, and socially conservative Catholics, are saying we have been far too heavenly minded and thus we have been of no earthly value for far too long, on too many fronts."

make in quite clear that their faith is a political issue. They are going in to politics for the express purpose of imposing their personal beliefs on public policy. Not all believers do so. But I've been watching the lines between church and state blur down south. I know damn well what groups like Focus on the Family are about. You can't for a second expect me or anyone else to believe "people of faith" up here haven't been keeping tabs on the succes of the Christian Right in the States (especially organizations like Focus on the Family) and aren't willing to learn their tactics and take money from their U.Sian bretehren to advance their agenda here.

I think what we are seeing is the thin edge of the wedge. The Religious Right is bringing their mission to overturn democracy and enlightenment ideals to Canada. It may start as a trickle, but then, 20 years ago, the same people who are pulling stunts like "Save Terri", "Justice Sunday", who are blocking stem cell research, birth control, gay marriage and sex ed, etc etc. were laughed at. Today, they have access to the highest levels of power. We would do well to watch and guard against the same fate befalling us here.

What politician does not have a point of view or policy agenda?

For crying out loud, the Taliban had strong opinions too. The question is: how are those opinions compatable with the democratic principles of our country?

[Riverwind]

So a dozen Christians will run for the Conservatives. Is it okay they have Jews, Muslims and Hindus run as well? I heard they had some secular libertarians running and an agnostic.

Say isn't our PM a Catholic?

You must make a distinction between a devote Christian and a Christian fundamentalist. Most devote Christians I know have come to terms with the inherent contradiction between believing in a faith that says any non-Christian will be rejected by God in the afterlife and accepting that there many ethical and moral people who will never be Christian and certainly deserve to be accepted by God in the afterlife.

Christian fundamentalists are people that don't understand or accept that it is possible to live an ethical and moral life without being 'saved by Jesus'. When these people run for office they frequently try to use the power of the state to suppress the rights of people who do not believe in Christianity by pushing their own very narrow view of theology. By advocating laws rooted in Christian dogma, these Christians undermine the inclusive multi-ethnic society that many Canadians are proud of.

These fundamentalists are joining the CPC today and these are the people the mainstream Canadians are really afraid of. However, I do agree that not all Christian CPC candidates are fundamentalists.

[willy]

BD, All I was saying is that each candidate should be evaluated based on their personal merit. They should not be painted with a wide brush.

All Christians don't approach politics the same way.

Just as any other definable group does think with one mind.

When a candidate manipulates the system they should not be supported or elected in any party. The Liberals have had similar problems with some of the ethnic communities having mass sign ups. The challenge for the Conservatives is with the democratic principles they hold themselves to. At the last convention the members voted to extend membership voting rights out to 45 days. This does not fix the challenge but it is a start. The only real fix is to maintain a broad based large membership in all 308 ridings. Not an easy fix.

The Conservatives will have a few candidates that get in this way. They are not likely to get elected. And in some ridings a social conservative best reflects the views of the majority of constituents.

The Conservative Party does have over 200 000 members and this does help minimize the frequency of these events.

My concern is when a reporter finds every Christian running and makes prejudice decisions about who and what they are. I have no doubt that the Liberal war room did a background check on all the nominations and fed this story to the G&M. This is part of their strategy to paint the Party in a negative light. I hope the Christian MPs from the Liberal party stand up and say no to these divisive tactics.

[The_Rebirth]

Reason # 184 not to vote for the current CPC.

I want the PCs back.

[Black Dog]

BD, All I was saying is that each candidate should be evaluated based on their personal merit. They should not be painted with a wide brush.

I'll remember that next time I see someone talk about the "crooked Liberal party" or the "communist NDP".

All Christians don't approach politics the same way.

Just as any other definable group does think with one mind.

True, and I said as much. My point is people are jumpy when it come sto mixing religion and politics. And, while it's true that branding anyone with strong religious beliefs as a religious whacko is wrongheaded, I think you're either being incredibly naive as to the existence and strength of religiously-motivate dpolitical movements, or simply being disingenuous about their motives.

[The Terrible Sweal]

The Conservatives will have a few candidates that get in this way. They are not likely to get elected.

Glob and Maul:

There has been no specific drive to infiltrate the Conservatives, Dr. McVety said. Some religious Liberals have been nominated as well. But the Tories have taken the lion's share, he said, probably because of the party's opposition to changing the definition of marriage.

Willy:

And in some ridings a social conservative best reflects the views of the majority of constituents.

Or even the whole party. Who knows?

The Conservative Party does have over 200 000 members and this does help minimize the frequency of these events. 

Or exagerates it, depending on what those 200,000 believe.

My concern is when a reporter finds every Christian running and makes prejudice decisions about who and what they are.

It looked to me like they found those Christians with specific support of organizations who advocate a specific agenda because it is Christian.

This is part of their strategy to paint the Party in a negative light.

No, it is part of a strategy to reveal that the party has attitudes people don't want driving policy.

[Black Dog]

Personally I don't think the CPC (which has been a haven for religious SoCons since the Refooooooorm days) is being driven by the fundies. However, they are the party most in danger of a fundie take over precisely because of their willingness to harbour socon views. We know that they are capable of doing it: witness the G.O.P's dalliance with wingnutery down south (yes, SpongeDob: I'm talking 'bout you.) That's the fear, anyway.

[RightWinger]

BD, All I was saying is that each candidate should be evaluated based on their personal merit. They should not be painted with a wide brush.

All Christians don't approach politics the same way.

Just as any other definable group does think with one mind.

When a candidate manipulates the system they should not be supported or elected in any party. The Liberals have had similar problems with some of the ethnic communities having mass sign ups. The challenge for the Conservatives is with the democratic principles they hold themselves to. At the last convention the members voted to extend membership voting rights out to 45 days. This does not fix the challenge but it is a start. The only real fix is to maintain a broad based large membership in all 308 ridings. Not an easy fix.

The Conservatives will have a few candidates that get in this way. They are not likely to get elected. And in some ridings a social conservative best reflects the views of the majority of constituents.

The Conservative Party does have over 200 000 members and this does help minimize the frequency of these events.

My concern is when a reporter finds every Christian running and makes prejudice decisions about who and what they are. I have no doubt that the Liberal war room did a background check on all the nominations and fed this story to the G&M. This is part of their strategy to paint the Party in a negative light. I hope the Christian MPs from the Liberal party stand up and say no to these divisive tactics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey willy, I think the Conservatives have more like 2.5 million members. When I finally got my membership my number was over 2.5million.

[RightWinger]

So a dozen Christians will run for the Conservatives. Is it okay they have Jews, Muslims and Hindus run as well? I heard they had some secular libertarians running and an agnostic.

Say isn't our PM a Catholic?

You must make a distinction between a devote Christian and a Christian fundamentalist. Most devote Christians I know have come to terms with the inherent contradiction between believing in a faith that says any non-Christian will be rejected by God in the afterlife and accepting that there many ethical and moral people who will never be Christian and certainly deserve to be accepted by God in the afterlife.

Christian fundamentalists are people that don't understand or accept that it is possible to live an ethical and moral life without being 'saved by Jesus'. When these people run for office they frequently try to use the power of the state to suppress the rights of people who do not believe in Christianity by pushing their own very narrow view of theology. By advocating laws rooted in Christian dogma, these Christians undermine the inclusive multi-ethnic society that many Canadians are proud of.

These fundamentalists are joining the CPC today and these are the people the mainstream Canadians are really afraid of. However, I do agree that not all Christian CPC candidates are fundamentalists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wanna know what fundament stands for?

fundament: the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on;

"he deserves a good kick in the butt";

"are you going to sit on your fanny and do nothing?"

[syn: buttocks, nates, arse, butt, backside, bum, buns, can, hindquarters, hind end, keister, posterior, prat, rear, rear end, rump, stern, seat, tail, tail end, tooshie, tush, bottom, behind, derriere, fanny, ass]

[willy]

Hey willy, I think the Conservatives have more like 2.5 million members. When I finally got my membership my number was over 2.5million.

Right winger, I wish we had that many members but at the last leadership race we had just over 250 000 active members.

I think you will find 2.5 million is the people who have ever been members, like at MacDonald’s serving 2.5 billion.

Don't fret though; at 250 000 we have the most members of any political party in Canada. Our national convention had twice as many delegates than our closest competitor.

TTS, I was at that convention and for what it is worth I saw a broad based party. The largest contingent of members was from Ontario with over 1000 from that one province. The one area of growth the party needs to focus on is Quebec which only had 350 delegates, but that is why we were in Montreal.

While in Montreal I had a good conversation with a group of members for Vancouver center. I was encouraged to learn that they were gay and married. I was told that while they didn’t agree with all the issue on the table they felt that they were respected and had the ability to fight for what they thought was right. The same sex vote was close and as far a I know the people I met are still working hard to build our party.

Hey TTS don't hate us because you aint us. Hug a Conservative it might feel good and I promise most of us don't bite. Right winger may bite you. You might want to ask him before you give him a hug. Sorry it is Friday and I should have already gone to happy hour.

[Argus]

So a dozen Christians will run for the Conservatives. Is it okay they have Jews, Muslims and Hindus run as well? I heard they had some secular libertarians running and an agnostic.

This is bigotry.

Bigotry my eye.

These people are there as part of a concerted effort to advance a point of view and/or policy agenda. It is perfectly fair for voters to recognize this and question whether this is an agenda that suits us or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Odd, though, how no one ever dares to even suggest there might be something to look at when a wild crowd of Indians or Pakistanis or Sikhs or Chinese swamp a local riding association and vote in one of their own. No one ever suggests that these candidates might not be at all representative of the community, and might have aims and agendas which appeal to a narrow group of supporters.

[Riverwind]

Odd, though, how no one ever dares to even suggest there might be something to look at when a wild crowd of Indians or Pakistanis or Sikhs or Chinese swamp a local riding association and vote in one of their own. No one ever suggests that these candidates might not be at all representative of the community, and might have aims and agendas which appeal to a narrow group of supporters.

People would be concerned if these groups were able to take over a signficant number of seats for a national party. The concern about seeing a national party getting high jacked by the religious right is not a hypothetical concern: it has happened in the US.

[PatM]

Odd, though, how no one ever dares to even suggest there might be something to look at when a wild crowd of Indians or Pakistanis or Sikhs or Chinese swamp a local riding association and vote in one of their own. No one ever suggests that these candidates might not be at all representative of the community, and might have aims and agendas which appeal to a narrow group of supporters.

Actually, when that happened here in Vancouver that was EXACTLY what people were saying. Dunno where you get your news but it was all over the airwaves here in the GVRD. It was blatently obvious since people were admitting to getting paid to come join the party and vote for some guy they never heard of before.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Hey TTS don't hate us because you aint us. Hug a Conservative it might feel good and I promise most of us don't bite.

I don't hate Conservatives, I oppose them. I don't like the policies or beliefs they propagate.

[cybercoma]

God forbid someone of faith run for office. The country would be a much better place if everyone in parliament were either agnostic or atheist.

[cdnstiff]

Reason # 184 not to vote for the current CPC.

I want the PCs back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PC party is dead. They were an extension of the Liberals. They had no fresh ideas - just the same old, same old. Look at Sinclair - he's just a bitter old man.

[Argus]

Odd, though, how no one ever dares to even suggest there might be something to look at when a wild crowd of Indians or Pakistanis or Sikhs or Chinese swamp a local riding association and vote in one of their own. No one ever suggests that these candidates might not be at all representative of the community, and might have aims and agendas which appeal to a narrow group of supporters.

People would be concerned if these groups were able to take over a signficant number of seats for a national party. The concern about seeing a national party getting high jacked by the religious right is not a hypothetical concern: it has happened in the US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Different culture. Generally speaking, people are far more observant there than here. I see no possibility, given the limited numbers of fundamentalists here, in them havng any great influence over national affairs.

[Argus]

Odd, though, how no one ever dares to even suggest there might be something to look at when a wild crowd of Indians or Pakistanis or Sikhs or Chinese swamp a local riding association and vote in one of their own. No one ever suggests that these candidates might not be at all representative of the community, and might have aims and agendas which appeal to a narrow group of supporters.

Actually, when that happened here in Vancouver that was EXACTLY what people were saying. Dunno where you get your news but it was all over the airwaves here in the GVRD. It was blatently obvious since people were admitting to getting paid to come join the party and vote for some guy they never heard of before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's likely people are more sensitive in BC since the Indians took over the BC government a few years back by swamping riding associations to elect Ujjal Dosanjh as NDP leader when that party was the government. It is unlikely Dosanjh would have been very many people's choice for Premier outside the Indian community, who voted for him, strictly speaking, out of blatant racism. Most ethinc communities, in fact, vote racially. It's rarely called racism, for some reason. I don't think there's much doubt a White guy saying he was voting for someone because he was White would be called racist, though. In any event, if some of the more religious Christians are doing, to a small extent, what the Sikhs, Indians (Hindus), Tamils, Muslims, Chinese etc have been doing for ages, why is that any particular reason to be concerned? Do you honestly think some fundie is more opposed to same sex marriage than a Sikh or Hindu or Muslim?

[Argus]

Hey TTS don't hate us because you aint us. Hug a Conservative it might feel good and I promise most of us don't bite.

I don't hate Conservatives, I oppose them. I don't like the policies or beliefs they propagate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be more exact, you oppose the polices and beliefs you imagine they would like to propogate in their evil secret hearts.

[Riverwind]

Different culture. Generally speaking, people are far more observant there than here. I see no possibility, given the limited numbers of fundamentalists here, in them havng any great influence over national affairs.

That may be, however, the spectacle of legislatures in US trying the ban evolution from the school curriculum (among other things) does make one nervous about a party that seems to be attracting these kinds of people.