NDP Considers Long Term Deal w/Libs

[bigdude]

NDP considering long-term deal with Liberals

The NDP could seek a long-term agreement to prop up the Liberal government in exchange for a handful of concessions, party officials said today.

Fresh from winning $4.6 billion more for its priorities in return for helping the Liberals survive a confidence vote, the NDP is upping the ante and contemplating a more wide-ranging deal.

The party inched closer to holding the balance of power in the House of Commons after this week's Labrador byelection gave the Liberals another seat.

They will use their newfound clout to push the government on NDP priorities such as electoral reform, the environment and protection for pensioners.

But the party won't approach the Liberals with any offer until after NDP members discuss possible working scenarios at a caucus meeting next week.

"It's possible that one scenario would be one agreement that would keep (the Liberals) in place," said NDP spokesman Jamey Heath.

"It's equally possible that it would be one step at a time. . . .

"In return for three or four items it is possible that we could certainly find an arrangement that would keep Parliament working."

But any deal would not include NDP MPs sitting in a Liberal cabinet as part of a formal coalition government, he said.

Before making any offer, NDP Leader Jack Layton will take the pulse of his caucus to get a feel for their priorities.

"We'll obviously have discussions with our caucus," said NDP House Leader Libby Davies. "At this point it's too early to say what will happen - other than to say I feel very confident that both our leader and caucus as a whole will play the same kind of . . . very constructive, very responsible role in Parliament."

The NDP rescued the minority Liberals from the jaws of defeat in last week's nail-biter of a vote on the federal budget.

The Liberals secured 19 NDP votes by adding $4.6 billion for housing, the environment, foreign aid and education to their budget.

Thanks to a Liberal byelection win in Labrador on Tuesday, a Liberal-NDP alliance now has a better chance of survival even in the absence of cancer-stricken Independent MP Chuck Cadman, who cast the deciding vote last week.

The byelection win means that, with the NDP, Independent Carolyn Parrish and a tie-breaking vote by Speaker Peter Milliken, the government would have the 154 required votes to survive a confidence motion.

I am not sure if a coalition government means that the NDP would have cabinet seats because if that is what coalition means I am using the incorrect term.

Interestingly enough, this could lead to years of Liberal-NDP rule.

I know a lot of you are going to say but but PM Martin in his address to the nation said he was going to call an election after Gomery has released his report however I have heard that the report may take a lot longer to produce than originally thought, and more importantly it would not be the first time that Martin would change his mind on some issue, would it?

Looks more and more like the NDP do control the balance of power in this government after all which must make Conservatives quite upset. Well there is one good solution to getting rid of the current Conservative pain, and that is to dump Harper, before he completely destroys the party.

Electoral reform will turn out to be the key concession that the NDP will wrench from the Liberals.

[Riverwind]

I know a lot of you are going to say but but PM Martin in his address to the nation said he was going to call an election after Gomery has released his report however I have heard that the report may take a lot longer to produce than originally thought, and more importantly it would not be the first time that Martin would change his mind on some issue, would it?

It would be political suicide for Martin to go back on that promise. We will have an election next Feb at the latest.

[bigdude]

Not necessarily so.

Chretien recanted on Free Trade, GST, you name it, and was re-elected several times.

I think to be a Liberal you must first have to qualify as a compulsive liar.

Remember for the Liberals it is strictly pragmagic - winning and staying in power is all that matters.

[cybercoma]

Not necessarily so.

Chretien recanted on Free Trade, GST, you name it, and was re-elected several times.

I think to be a Liberal you must first have to qualify as a compulsive liar.

Remember for the Liberals it is strictly pragmagic - winning and staying in power is all that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Calling an election when the report is released is something they will be quoted on for the rest of the year, you can count on that. Sparhawk is right, if they don't call an election, there will be a lot of angry Canadian voters.

[Riverwind]

Not necessarily so.

Chretien recanted on Free Trade, GST, you name it, and was re-elected several times.

I think to be a Liberal you must first have to qualify as a compulsive liar.

Remember for the Liberals it is strictly pragmagic - winning and staying in power is all that matters.

The Liberals never promised to get rid of the GST (except for Shelia Copps and she had go through a by-election because she went off the red book script). They promised to replace it with a harmonized tax federal provincial sales tax. They could not do that because the provinces told them where to go.

The Liberals never promised cancel free trade: they promised to 'renegotiate' NAFTA. They did get a few minor concessions which were sufficient to fill the wording of their red book. OF course that did not satisfy free trade opponents but technically they kept their word.

Lastly, given that trust will be this biggest issue in the next campaign Martin will do exactly what he says he is going to do. He would be stupid to do otherwise.

[bigdude]

Calling an election when the report is released is something they will be quoted on for the rest of the year, you can count on that. Sparhawk is right, if they don't call an election, there will be a lot of angry Canadian voters.

Since when did that matter. They weren't going to vote Liberal anyway!

[bigdude]

You guys go off on tangents very easily.

What's important here is the possibility of electoral reform - proportional representation for our House of Commons. Then you will see Parliament work well for a change!

[Riverwind]

What's important here is the possibility of electoral reform - proportional representation for our House of Commons. Then you will see Parliament work well for a change! 

I assume you are being sarcastic

[cybercoma]

What's important here is the possibility of electoral reform - proportional representation for our House of Commons. Then you will see Parliament work well for a change! 

I assume you are being sarcastic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought he was sarcastic about supporting the NDP too....turns out I was wrong.

[bigdude]

Try resonding with some substance instead of the usual right wing putdowns.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I think to be a Liberal you must first have to qualify as a compulsive liar.

Remember for the Liberals it is strictly pragmagic - winning and staying in power is all that matters.

These two pragraphs are incompatible. The latter is correct. It is precisely this characteristic that makes the Liberal party such an boon to Canada.

The Liberals are not the hectoring Nutritionists Demanding Perfection nor the Critiquing Priests of Capital. The Liberals are the voters' gopher. Our lackeys, our national concierge service.

[Black Dog]

What's important here is the possibility of electoral reform - proportional representation for our House of Commons. Then you will see Parliament work well for a change!

Right wingers don't like PR because, despite their frequent posturing about "democratic deficits" and such, they know that the Cons popularity is exaggerated by the FPTP system. Moving to a system of PR would undercut the illusion of widespread conservative support and put them furthe rout of reach of power, which is their only real concern.

[Riverwind]

Right wingers don't like PR because, despite their frequent posturing about "democratic deficits" and such, they know that the Cons popularity is exaggerated by the FPTP system. Moving to a system of PR would undercut the illusion of widespread conservative support and put them furthe rout of reach of power, which is their only real concern.

PR would never work in a regionalised country like Canada. You would have to be dreaming if you think the BQ would accept any change that reduces their influence in parliment and any PR system that maintains the BQ strength is worse than what we have now. Furthermore, forcing through any constitutional change that the BQ does not agree with would be just asking for a 70% yes vote in a referendum.

For better or worse we are stuck with the system the way it is and other parties have to make it work. The Liberals and NDP have figured that out. The Conservatives will have to probably be punished at the ballot box once more before they will get it.

[mcqueen625]

Are any of you writing on this thread naive enough to believe that the Gomery Inquiry will ever produce a report that points fingers at sitting MP's or politicians no longer in power? I happen to believe that this report will be sterile and will not point fingers at anyone in positions of power or authority. At best, some petty bureaucrat will wind up as a scapegoat, and maybe end up with house arrest for a short while. Paul Martin will declare that the Liberal's did nothing wrong, because no LIberal was found to be responsible, and things will carry on as they always have until the next scandal get's discovered. I happen to believe that Justice Gomery's mandate under Section (K) does not allow him to express his own opinion as to who he believes and who he doesn't believe.

[kimmy]

If Martin goes against his personal pledge to Canadians, it'll be a damning indictment of Paul Martin as a man. After talking the memory of his father and about how he was raised to believe in high principles and the integrity of Canada's institutions, and about the honor of public service as a sacred trust and all that, and looking us in the eye while invoking all those things in his pledge to call an election within 30 days of the report... I think that only the puniest little man could go back on that promise.

Politically, he could get away with it-- he only really wanted to serve a full term as PM anyway... if he can make this rickety thing he's built last for 4 years, he won't ever have to face the voters. But as a man who apparently cares about how people think of him? I don't think he'd ever live it down. I don't think Martin wants to be remembered as the man who begged Canadians to take him at his word, then reneged.

-k

[Black Dog]

PR would never work in a regionalised country like Canada. You would have to be dreaming if you think the BQ would accept any change that reduces their influence in parliment and any PR system that maintains the BQ strength is worse than what we have now. Furthermore, forcing through any constitutional change that the BQ does not agree with would be just asking for a 70% yes vote in a referendum.

PR works in countries far more regionalised and ethinically diverse than Canada. It can work here. Also, depending on the method adapted, a change in the voting system would not require a constitutional change.

For better or worse we are stuck with the system the way it is and other parties have to make it work. The Liberals and NDP have figured that out. The Conservatives will have to probably be punished at the ballot box once more before they will get it.

No, we're not stuck. We just need the leadership and political will to make the change.

[Riverwind]

PR works in countries far more regionalised and ethinically diverse than Canada. It can work here. Also, depending on the method adapted, a change in the voting system would not require a constitutional change.

FPP gives the BQ 50-60 seats in Quebec. If we adopted a PR system where seats were assigned according to proportion in each province the BQ would only get 35-45 seats. I suspect hell would freeze over before the BQ would agree to reduce its seat count by 10-15 seats. And without a BQ agreement we cannot change the system in the rest of the country.

So my orginal point is quite valid. The system is not going to change for the foreseeable future.

[bigdude]

I hate to break it to ya but the Bloc does not run Canada.

They need to be taken down a notch or two anyway, they are commanding way too much power in Ottawa than their numbers/supporters warrant, and what better way to do it than bring in PR.

I bet if someone had asked you a couple of months ago whether you thought the Liberals would cave in for a $4.6 billion budget change, you would have not agreed with the comments as well.

For the first time ever we have a chance to become much more democratic in Canada, and all you people who profess to believe in democracy are against a more representative and fair system of voting in Canada.

Democrats my ass!

Go Jack Layton Go!

[Riverwind]

I hate to break it to ya but the Bloc does not run Canada.

You just don't get it: everyone outside of Quebec agrees that the Bloc has too much power. But the average francophone voter in Quebec does not have that opinion. If anything, they think that the Bloc should have more power in Ottawa.

So if Jack Layton wants to wants to convince Quebequers to vote for seperation then he should push the Liberals to adopt PR without the BQ approval. If he would rather keep the country together he must start by convincing the BQ to support PR.

[Black Dog]

FPP gives the BQ 50-60 seats in Quebec. If we adopted a PR system where seats were assigned according to proportion in each province the BQ would only get 35-45 seats. I suspect hell would freeze over before the BQ would agree to reduce its seat count by 10-15 seats. And without a BQ agreement we cannot change the system in the rest of the country.

Why not? It would simly be a matter of getting the rest of the parties onside and beating the Bloc that way. IMO, I think it would be mighty silly of the Bloc to bitch about PR when PR is being looked at in Quebec.

I'd like to hear the opinion of one of our resident seccessionists on this issue.

So if Jack Layton wants to wants to convince Quebequers to vote for seperation then he should push the Liberals to adopt PR without the BQ approval. If he would rather keep the country together he must start by convincing the BQ to support PR.

What about the thousands of non-BQ supporters who's votes don't count? Why would they swing to the seperatist side?

[Riverwind]

Why not? It would simly be a matter of getting the rest of the parties onside and beating the Bloc that way. IMO, I think it would be mighty silly of the Bloc to bitch about PR when PR is being looked at in Quebec.

Quebec sovereigntists believe in the 2-nation concept: i.e. Quebec should be an equal partner with "English" Canada in all federal institutions. The BQ would argue that current federal arrangment does not give Quebec that equal partner status, so, FPP is necessary since it gives Quebequers the power they deserve until Quebequers vote Yes in a referendum. At that time, the BQ would be happy to accept PR as the basis for the new 2-nation federation that they would be able to negotiate.

It may be pure fantasy from the point of view of any non-francophone non-quebequer but those people don't vote for the BQ anyways.

I would be curious whether our resident Quebequers agree with this analysis.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I think Jack Layton should seek a limited coalition government with the Liberals.

Specifically, NDP give legislative support for an agenda thru delivery of the Gomery report, while Layton takes a cabinet post.

And the gracious and grateful Liberals give Ed Broadbent a senate seat.

[bigdude]

Apparently that is not in the cards, as it is not something the NDP would consider.

While closer to the Liberals than the Conservatives I think the NDP prefer to remain at arm's length to the Liberals as they are still smarting from what happened in the last few days during the last election.

The New Democrats though are prepared to make Parliament work if the price is right. And so far so good, and as well it is keeping the barbarians outside the gates of power.

[Black Dog]

I think Jack Layton should seek a limited coalition government with the Liberals.

Specifically, NDP give legislative support for an agenda thru delivery of the Gomery report, while Layton takes a cabinet post.

And the gracious and grateful Liberals give Ed Broadbent a senate seat.

The NDP are not Liberals. Dippers have principles. It's one thing to us epolitical leverage to advanc eyour parties agenda, another thing entirely to sell out completely, which is what you are asking. A formal coalition should be out of the question.

While closer to the Liberals than the Conservatives I think the NDP prefer to remain at arm's length to the Liberals as they are still smarting from what happened in the last few days during the last election.

The ND view is that the Liberals, despite their tendancy to campaign from the left, are actually not much different from the Cons. Both are the parties of the boss-man.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I hope Layton can get past some of this high-horse moralism and get what he needs: credibility on the national stage.

BTW, I don't see anything wrong with putting Broadbent in the senate. Who'd disagree he's at least as good as Marjory Labretton?