British Columbia - High School portfolio

[geoffrey]

I was listening to the CBC radio on Wednesday, and heard about a new petition against the BC grad portfolio. I think this is the best one, because it unites those who are against and those who are for it. The author of this petition simply asks for a compromise: to let this portfolio be optional. I visited the petition and there are some 5400 signatures. Since this is not against nor for the grad portfolio I think that we, students from BC should all sign it, I already did. I also did some background check and saw the article about this petition in The Province and the reaction of the BC Education Minister on that. Seems to me that she likes the idea.

The petition is at: http://www.petitiononline.com/portgrad/petition.html

I think all subjects should be optional............

Just do your work, how do you ever to expect to succeed in life if you want to pick and choose things you do. It'll be a valuable learning experience for all those that oppose it that's for sure. Maybe a little taste of the real world.

"Oh but boss, I don't want to do it, let's make it optional."

[Charles Anthony]

I think all subjects should be optional............

My guess is that you are being sarcastic. However, I am not. I agree: all school should be optional.

I am going to start dreaming now.

The history books in British Columbia will look at this petition and call it one of the first steps towards liberating students from the absurdity of institutionalized adolescent day-care.

Along the way, the "teachers" will protest and go on strike -- proving even further that nobody needs "school" more than teachers need their jobs. A hundred years from now, people will look back and shake their heads in shame as they recall the old-days when kids were forced into school. They will also shake their heads in shame when recalling kids being employed to clean factory chimneys because of their small physical size.

"Oh but boss, I don't want to do it, let's make it optional."

Every job is optional. The real world is choice and dealing with the results of choice.

When people are forced to work at something (as they are in school), it is not wise to expect them ALL to look forward to the results.

[Rojo]

Anthony whats your big problem with school? It is admittedly a place where people are forced to conform to the views of other people but other wise its on the whole a good place to learn.

If school was optional I would still go and I'm sure lots of my friends would as well.

This revolt against portfolio is not a major revolution. Its just students speaking out against an un prepared program.

[Charles Anthony]

Anthony whats your big problem with school?

My main problem with school is that we are not given a fair choice and that the state monopolizes the market.

We are forced to pay taxes to support "their" schools. That is wrong.

We are not forced to pay for other people's foot-ware. You can not live in Canada without foot-ware.

Why does the state not monopolize the foot-ware market???

[i believe the answer is related to the fact that historically, teachers have evolved to have a major influence in the political process. Most people that I know either is related to or is close friends with a teacher. A politician who does not cater to teachers might not ever get elected -- or stay married.]

It is admittedly a place where people are forced to conform to the views of other people but other wise its on the whole a good place to learn.

That is a different argument. Even if every single school was "a good place to learn" for every single student (what are the chances of that???), I would still object because we are not given choice.

By the way, some running shoes are clearly better quality than others. Should the state force us all into subsidizing the best running shoes on the market??? to make them available to everybody who wants to jog? because jogging is good for your health?

I often by cheap sneakers for $7.98 at a great Canadian retailer. After two months, they fall apart. I throw them out and get a new pair. The prices have not changed in nearly 10 years. I do not jog.

If school was optional I would still go and I'm sure lots of my friends would as well.

Now you are thinking in the right direction.

Answer this: Why should the people who do not want to go to YOUR school have to pay for YOUR education?

should they pay for your winter boots too?

This revolt against portfolio is not a major revolution. Its just students speaking out against an un prepared program.

It may not be a revolution but I pray that at least one student in British Columbia will be led to look outside of the box.

If one student questions this "unprepared program" and takes it a step further to question the validity of the state compelling them into school (or paying for it) it will be a blessing in disguise.

[bradco]

Winter boots and education are not exactly the same thing. Canadian society believes that education is fundamentally important and therefore it is necessary for it to be publicly funded so everyone can go. We also force everyone to go up to a certain point because society doesnt want a bunch of morons walking around. Dont like this then your always free to move or try to lobby against societal beliefs about education

[Rojo]

Anthony,

I assume that by other types of schools you are refering to people who attend home school and religous high school.

I agree it is unfair that some people are forced to pay for the public school system when it is not there kind of school. In an ideal world I believe it would be great if all schools were subsidized so it would be a level playing field and it would be realitvly free to enter any school just like it is in the public system today. However there is not enough tax dollars to go around and therefore the most popular one must be subsidized so people that are not as well off can enter. The public school system is the most well rounded and therefore is the most logical one to be supported.

[Charles Anthony]

We also force everyone to go up to a certain point because society doesnt want a bunch of morons walking around.

The results are shining.

We force everyone to go to school so that the teachers can keep their jobs.

I assume that by other types of schools you are refering to people who attend home school and religous high school.

Yes. I would also include private schools and people who did not want to go to school or did not have children to send to school.

In an ideal world I believe it would be great if all schools were subsidized so it would be a level playing field and it would be realitvly free to enter any school just like it is in the public system today.

I do not believe that would be ideal. However, that is yet an other argument.

Just to give you a taste: people tend to waste things that are free and value things that have prices.

Furthermore, if businesses can make profit at the expense of the tax-payer, wasteful spending is usually concealed.

However there is not enough tax dollars to go around

What do you mean?

and therefore the most popular one must be subsidized so people that are not as well off can enter.

That does not sound fair.

Why should everybody pay for it?? It sounds like you are justifying theft.

The public school system is the most well rounded

Says who??? The teachers whose livelihood depends on it, I suppose.

People should not have to pay for OTHER people's school. If you want it, pay for it yourself.

[Rojo]

We force everyone to go to school so that the teachers can keep their jobs.

I don't think so. I have to agree with the last post. We force people to school so we can teach them how to become productive in society. If we didn't have people in school our nations infastructure would collapse. I doubt that the teachers have as much political clout as you say they do (although I agree they have a lot).

The public school system is the most well rounded

Says who??? The teachers whose livelihood depends on it, I suppose.

The public system is the most well rounded because it has no particular biase. Religous schooling is obviously slanted. Admittedly private schooling can be just the same as the public school but you have to pay fees to enter. This excludes the impoverished from entering the school.

People should not have to pay for OTHER people's school. If you want it, pay for it yourself.

If everyone had to pay for it themselves, people with little money would struggle to get there kids in school. With not enough money to acquire an education a person therefore don't have enough work skills to get into higher income bracket (unless they are extremely motivated). Still in the same bracket as their parents they cannot pay for their own childrens education causing a cycle of poverty. With other people paying for school this no longer happens. In my school people pay nothing to get in and any other fees can be covered by the school, allowing everybody to get an education.

One more thing all across Canada people pay for things that don't benefit them. Farm subsidies, sporting events like the Olympics, pine beetle relief, etc. Paying for things that don't benefit you is a fact of life in Canada.

[ClearWest]

Winter boots and education are not exactly the same thing. Canadian society believes that education is fundamentally important and therefore it is necessary for it to be publicly funded so everyone can go. We also force everyone to go up to a certain point because society doesnt want a bunch of morons walking around.

Footwear is also fundamentally important for life in Canada--perhaps it should be publicly funded so everyone can have it.

Some people don't like to see 'morons' walking around. Some people don't like to see barefoot people walking around. Some people don't like to see blue t-shirts--it doesn't mean there should be any force involved in making these people conform.

Dont like this then your always free to move

"If you don't like it, Leave".

Here's a nice little metaphor: A bully is repeatedly taking people's lunchmoney at school. They ask him to stop--but he says--Hey, if you don't want me to take your money, go to a different school.

My solution is different--I would get the bully [gov't] to stop taking.

The public system is the most well rounded because it has no particular biase. Religous schooling is obviously slanted. Admittedly private schooling can be just the same as the public school but you have to pay fees to enter. This excludes the impoverished from entering the school.

Public school has plenty of bias. I went to public school, and we were blatantly taught that species emerged from different species over a period of millions of years in a process which is known as evolution.

Also many of the teachers were naturally very pro-union, and spoke of the union as though it were the epitome of human civilization. In current events they were quick to imply that the world's problems today were mainly caused by capitalists, and people that were anti-communist. They stress that Stalin didn't practice TRUE communism, and the world would have been much more bright if Trosky had come to power. The Great Depression is taught as the reason why capitalism must be wrong and evil, and why Roosevelt's socialist "New Deal" was a life saver.

I had some very left-wing teachers..

I also had some very right-wing teachers which greatly hinted that military service is a great way for one to receive training and pay and life experience. But mainly I saw hints from the left, anti-capitalist and the like.

Just because something is public doesn't mean it's unbiased. Every person with an opinion has a bias, no matter how neutral they try to present themselves. Even journalists--in choosing which quotes they use, which angle to view a story--they are expressing a bias.

We are subsidizing bias.

Here's an idea--If we must 'create a level playing field', why don't we provide student vouchers instead of providing government education? That way schools will compete for students, becoming more efficient and cost effective. (See Stossel's "Stupid in America", you can probably find it on youtube)

[Darth_Vader_007]

I am a grade 12 student in BC so the portfolio is optional this year.

I am not doing it.

When we were handed the portfolio assignment in grade 10, we were given a stack of papers (the assignments and requirements) and a grade 10 course (Personal Planning 10).

I discovered that nobody really knew what was required to pass the portfolio.

Each of the different teachers and councillers (and the official BC grad website) that I asked told me different things.

I found the portfolio to be lots of work on top all my high school courses.

Also in the potfolio there is way to much emphasise on the arts. (I am a science type guy).

The portfolio is very poorly designed and I think if high school students should do it that the goverment should revise and edit it.

I am very firmly against the grad portfolio unless some major changes happen to it.

[Charles Anthony]

The portfolio is very poorly designed and I think if high school students should do it that the goverment should revise and edit it.

I am very firmly against the grad portfolio unless some major changes happen to it.

Let me make a suggestion: do the portfolio as best as you can. Period.

I understand the frustration of nobody knowing the requirements. Look at it this way: nobody can say you did it wrong.

After you graduate, you will be able to say you did the portfolio. You will have a competitive advantage above the other graduates who did not complete the portfolio.

Also in the potfolio there is way to much emphasise on the arts. (I am a science type guy).

Be more specific: what do you mean by the arts?

[geoffrey]

I still have to say heaven help you people in the real world. When your boss hands you an assignment you disagree with, are you going to just refuse?

Your attitudes are frightening, I'd never hire any of you (the anti-portfolio people).

You have no idea the amount of kids that go to university thinking they know everything, switch majors a hundred times, run up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, just because they didn't research in advance. Stop wasting our resources and do the assignment, it'll save money for you and everyone else.

[Darth_Vader_007]

After you graduate, you will be able to say you did the portfolio. You will have a competitive advantage above the other graduates who did not complete the portfolio.

What advantage will the portfolio grant me.

I talked to several business owners if they thought portfolio would help me get a better job and they said no, they would just think of it as a really long resume, and if they were giving it they would throw it in the trash along with the rest of the resumes, that they didn't like.

QUOTE(Darth_Vader_007 @ Dec 7 2006, 03:45 PM)

Also in the potfolio there is way to much emphasise on the arts. (I am a science type guy).

Be more specific: what do you mean by the arts?

The first assignment is to look at and interpret a piece of art or a design.

The closest assignment that comes to a science is the information technology assignment.

Also there is no assignments reffering to math or any other science.

And there is no assignments reffering to history, geography, or foreign languages.

As an example of how confussing the Aspects are:

Aspect 2.1 Criterea #5

Demonstrates that you have participated cooperatively and respectfully.

How are you supposed to demonstrate this I would assume you get a note signed by the event organizer.

Aspect 3.1 Criterea #1

Describes your transition plan in a concise format.

What if you do not know what you are going to do after school many students are not on the same schedule as the school.

There is no class time for this huge project.

geoffrey have you looked at the portfolio and how huge it is.

If you have not seen the assignments don't comment on it.

I could do it in 1 year if it was the only thing I was working on.

The principle at the school that I used to go to said that the portfolio will make us students better people.

My dad took offence at this because he grew up in Ontario and was in school all the way up to grade 13 and post-secondary, and he is not considered a better person.

[Charles Anthony]

You have no idea the amount of kids that go to university thinking they know everything, switch majors a hundred times, run up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, just because they didn't research in advance.

This is an interesting problem.

I would suggest that the major problem is that we encourage (much like aggressive hockey parents push their kids into training to get to the NHL and become super-stars) youngsters to go to school too early.

I believe more students should spend more time off after completing high school. I have even heard the suggestion that adolescents should not be sitting in a classroom at all. Rather, anybody going through puberty should be sent to work on a farm!

What advantage will the portfolio grant me.

I can not say for sure but it might just make you stand out above others.

Also, you might be able to get hired by GeofFrey above!

I talked to several business owners if they thought portfolio would help me get a better job and they said no, they would just think of it as a really long resume, and if they were giving it they would throw it in the trash along with the rest of the resumes, that they didn't like.

You may be right.

In general, the goals of the assignment seem good. However, what you describe seems difficult and confusing too.

This is what I recommend:

1) do the assignment but with a completely different goal: have fun with it.

To be clear, I do not mean that you should make fun of the assignment but truly respond to each section in a manner in which the reader or teacher or social engineer will say: "Hey, this kid liked doing this assignment!" even if you hate it

2) do the assignment quickly

3) do the assignment with short responses rather than long boring ones

The first assignment is to look at and interpret a piece of art or a design.

I do that all of the time.

Here is a hint: the easiest way to critique a piece of visual art is by discussing the technical aspects of how it was made.

The closest assignment that comes to a science is the information technology assignment.

What is so great about science?

Most of what you get in high school science is intellectually the lowest form of learning: memorize and regurgitate.

Also there is no assignments reffering to math or any other science.

And there is no assignments reffering to history, geography, or foreign languages.

Why should there be???

You get tons of that already in school, right?

Demonstrates that you have participated cooperatively and respectfully.

How are you supposed to demonstrate this I would assume you get a note signed by the event organizer.

Your example is a good one.

What you could do is describe what happened at the event and how you participated in the group.

Make something up about it like "I suggested that we do things differently blah blah blah and as a result of my suggestion we succeeded at getting the job done faster than scheduled."

Also, you could describe how somebody else helped you and the whole group worked better as a result.

Describes your transition plan in a concise format.

What if you do not know what you are going to do after school many students are not on the same schedule as the school.

Honestly, I think it is normal for students to NOT know what they want to do right after completing high school.

What you could do is explain your opinion on the matter.

There is no class time for this huge project.

Too bad.

The principle at the school that I used to go to said that the portfolio will make us students better people.

I do not know if it will make you a better person.

However, it might make you understand the business of public education differently when you are older.

[blueblood]

This is an interesting problem.

I would suggest that the major problem is that we encourage (much like aggressive hockey parents push their kids into training to get to the NHL and become super-stars) youngsters to go to school too early.

I believe more students should spend more time off after completing high school. I have even heard the suggestion that adolescents should not be sitting in a classroom at all. Rather, anybody going through puberty should be sent to work on a farm!

I am in 100% agreement Just make sure that those going through puberty working on the farm should be watched like a hawk, they'd be too dangerous!!! Yah they should go out in the world and work and figure out what they want to do instead of being thrust immediately into school, get the partying and bar life out of them before settling down and going to school

[blue_eyed_demon1]

This is why we need Libertarianism.

These Grad Portfolios are just another example of the gov't thinking they know what's best for us, and then enforcing it upon us.

The intention is good: The gov't is trying to get kids to apply what they've learned and to encourage them to be competitive in the economy with these super resumes known as portfolios.

But the result is not so good: "Mandatory Volunteer Hours" is one of the biggest oxymorons I've ever heard of. I don't believe in a centralized one-size-fits-all public school system anyways. We gave Big Brother the responsibility to educate us, and that's what he's doing. Let's stop asking the government to take care of everything for us!

Pay for your own school then.

Do your homework and stop being lazy, thats all this comes down to. It's a valuable experience, you know, how to do work, something 95% of high school grads have no comprehension of.

We don't choose to pay for our own school- stupid. If we did, half the kids in school right now wouldn't be there. I agree completely that portfolio is the biggest forced "creative" application to time (not to mention a waste of it) that isn't needed. The point was to get kids more involved with their school and their skills. Look where that got us!

Some kids aren't health nuts. Some kids can't draw or sing or dance. Some kids are bloody introverted and anti-social- but we accept them for that because it's how we live. We're all different, but portfolio forces us to explore the parts of ourselves we dont' necessarily like or want to know about.

And if you think highschool grads have no comprehension of work- then I think you should go back to highschool. It takes hard work to make it to where I am or where they've been. Whether that work is educational, social, mental, personal, you have to be strong. And so I admire the people who have graduated, because they're the survivors. The proof that you're willing to do something. So what if some people don't do their homework sometimes, and so what if they don't make something of themselves after highschool. That is a choice they made when they missed that interview or took that cocaine before work. Or even when they just wanted to lie around. But that is their choice. And it is NOT your place to judge that choice. I have seen no highschool student judging you so now I'm going to right back. (Yes this is immature, and I'm aware and I'm sorry)

You seem to be a closed minded, outspoken, ignorant man with nothing better to do than to claim kids don't do their homework. And if you're a student, you're some arrogant A+ brown nose who will grow UP to be a closed minded outspoken ignorant man; and I am the immature, lazy, C+ average student who is getting on your last nerve. Well good. Cause you probably p*$$ed off a lot of other students with your comment. And they were right to be such. How dare you brand us all as lazy. How dare you brand the boy who tries hard in class but still only manages a C- because of problems at home, and having no friends, makes him depressed and he can't think straight or doesn't sleep at night. There are a lot of reasons kids don't do their homework. And yes, most of the time it's laziness. But don't you ever brand us all as such, because we are individuals. Just because maybe you didn't do your homework because of laziness, does not mean that I won't. So you can take your comment, and you can stuff it back down your throat with your foot- after you pull your head out of your a$$.

Stop being so damn jaded and grow up.

[Charles Anthony]

and I am the immature, lazy, C+ average student who is getting on your last nerve. Well good.

Welcome to the forum.

[geoffrey]

You seem to be a closed minded, outspoken, ignorant man with nothing better to do than to claim kids don't do their homework. And if you're a student, you're some arrogant A+ brown nose who will grow UP to be a closed minded outspoken ignorant man; and I am the immature, lazy, C+ average student who is getting on your last nerve. Well good. Cause you probably p*$$ed off a lot of other students with your comment. And they were right to be such. How dare you brand us all as lazy. How dare you brand the boy who tries hard in class but still only manages a C- because of problems at home, and having no friends, makes him depressed and he can't think straight or doesn't sleep at night.

Go write a song. We aren't hear to be your emotional support, I could care less about their feelings. This is about public policy, not some ridiculous notion that high school grads are survivors of torture.

I'm not an A+ brown nose, actually I've never been an amazingly high achiever in school. I have other priorities. But school isn't a torture exercise that's for sure, that's just ridiculous.

I am a student current in university, and all I've got to tell you is that you've seen nothing yet. It's twice as tough in university and ten times as so in the real world.

[Slavik44]

I am a student current in university, and all I've got to tell you is that you've seen nothing yet. It's twice as tough in university and ten times as so in the real world.

I dunno I find university to be infinitely easier and more enjoyable then highschool.

--------------------------------

Anyways the portfolio doesn't sound all that different then some of the stuff I had to do in highschool as a part of CAPP and Carear explorations, which I think I mentioned way back in this thread. Anyways I can attest to the fact that it was nothing more than a complete waste of time.

Part of the beauty of such lame excersizes is that a lame answer will suffice.

Take the art section of your portfolio...You basically have to make some art, identify your intent and discuss the impact you hope it will have. Great so get on the computer use photoshop and make a poster that expresses your displeasure with the portfolio project.

Interpersonal skills...okay so list off what they are grab a tape recorder go to a mall and attempt to pick up girls...they are apart of your community correct?

The planing element...tell you what

http://www.princetonreview.com/cte/quiz/career_quiz1.asp

take that test, then using that test use workfutures BC to gather some information on the top ranked career choices for you. Then after doing that explain why it is unreasonable to have a 17-18 year old kid to have their life planned out, you could point out that your brain is still developing and many people spend along time searching to find out the person they truly are.

Employability skills....apparently you are supposed to design a plan to fix a problem at home, in the community, or at school...great guess what the problem is...the portfolio......

Information Technology....its the internet I am sure you have used it before

Personal Health...Seriously just start a dog walking business...and charge people to walk their dogs...and get them to sign a receit as proof. This can probabley also be used for any other career or community related requirements for the portfolio and you make some money.

Anyways I ain't in high school anymore, so the high school students should be comming up with new and innovative ways to shirk their duties...kids these days are so lazy they can't even find ways to be lazy, back in my day.....

[geoffrey]

I dunno I find university to be infinitely easier and more enjoyable then highschool.

Depends on what your taking I suppose. What's your major?

More enjoyable, sure. Easier, never.

Anyways I ain't in high school anymore, so the high school students should be comming up with new and innovative ways to shirk their duties...kids these days are so lazy they can't even find ways to be lazy, back in my day.....

So true.

[Slavik44]

I dunno I find university to be infinitely easier and more enjoyable then highschool.

Depends on what your taking I suppose. What's your major?

More enjoyable, sure. Easier, never.

I don't exactly have a major I am simply going to university right now in order to get the 90 credits required to be admitted to law school. I have taken courses in a number of different areas...History, Economics, criminology, and archeology most predominantley.

[blue_eyed_demon1]

You seem to be a closed minded, outspoken, ignorant man with nothing better to do than to claim kids don't do their homework. And if you're a student, you're some arrogant A+ brown nose who will grow UP to be a closed minded outspoken ignorant man; and I am the immature, lazy, C+ average student who is getting on your last nerve. Well good. Cause you probably p*$$ed off a lot of other students with your comment. And they were right to be such. How dare you brand us all as lazy. How dare you brand the boy who tries hard in class but still only manages a C- because of problems at home, and having no friends, makes him depressed and he can't think straight or doesn't sleep at night.

Go write a song. We aren't hear to be your emotional support, I could care less about their feelings. This is about public policy, not some ridiculous notion that high school grads are survivors of torture.

I'm not an A+ brown nose, actually I've never been an amazingly high achiever in school. I have other priorities. But school isn't a torture exercise that's for sure, that's just ridiculous.

I am a student current in university, and all I've got to tell you is that you've seen nothing yet. It's twice as tough in university and ten times as so in the real world.

did i ever ask you to be my emotional support? please. i have way better things to do than to tell you how i feel. you're not worth it. and what's this "we"? if i'm not mistaken, you are one person. and if you feel there's more of you then maybe you should go see a psychiatrist before it gets worse than it already is. I never said highschool was a torture excersize, i'm smarter than that thank you very much. I'm well aware things are harder in the real world, if I wasn't I wouldn't even be touching this subject with a ten foot pole. (funny, kind of like my feelings towards you huh? ) And you say you were never a high achiever and you have other priorities? So do we. And that's why people don't get their homework done.

Oh and you might not be an A+ brown nose... but you sure are at least a C+-B a$$hole.

[geoffrey]

I don't exactly have a major I am simply going to university right now in order to get the 90 credits required to be admitted to law school. I have taken courses in a number of different areas...History, Economics, criminology, and archeology most predominantley.

Exactly what you find it more enjoyable!

[geoffrey]

And you say you were never a high achiever and you have other priorities? So do we. And that's why people don't get their homework done.

And that's why people are on welfare. It's all about priorities. Opposing work because your lazy is one thing. My other priorities have been my professional career, which I got started in early. Not sitting around doing nothing then whining about homework.

Everyone has time to do the hour at night, get out from in front of the TV or put the joint down for an hour or two.

[Charles Anthony]

or put the joint down for an hour or two.

Now, your asking too much.

Come on, Geo, have a heart. Step back and consider the possibility that British Columbia (and possibly other jurisdictions) seriously has a systemic education problem that needs to be addressed. We are probably just hearing from a small proportion of the population. There must be tons of other voices that are not yet heard. These students are doing the best they can to articulate their concerns.

One thing that I find very exciting about hearing from these students is that they are not asking for more money to be injected into education. They are asking for better quality service.

Just wait until we hear from the unions.