Can We Ever Co-exist

[Grantler]

I am interested in this...

Seems as though we are always going to be at odds with each other.

What do you think?

[PocketRocket]

I work with a few young Muslim people.

We have become very good friends.

We co-exist quite nicely, thank you.

[WageSlave]

I am interested in this...

Seems as though we are always going to be at odds with each other.

What do you think?

I agree, now stop being supersticious please! :angry:

[I Miss Trudeau]

I am interested in this...

Seems as though we are always going to be at odds with each other.

What do you think?

I think your real question is:

"Can fundamentalist christians co-exist with fundamentalist muslims?"

To which I would answer no, not a chance in hell. Co-existance with fundamentalists of any stripe is virtually impossible, let alone the interactions between two groups of fundamentalists.

As someone else pointed out, there are likely millions of christians and muslims in Canada alone that co-exist grandly in friendships.

I even suspect that its possible for jews and muslims to co-exist.

[PocketRocket]

The thing that strikes me as funny, albeit at the same time tragic, is the fact that for millenia untold, we've been killing each other over HOW we choose to worship the same god.

Jahweh, Jehova, Allah.

Same guy.

Does anyone believe that He cares whether you kneel on a carpet facing Mecca when you pray, or whether you pray quietly and unassumingly in privacy facing in any direction at all, or whether you pray with many others whilst singing gospel songs???

Personally, I find the idea of an omnipotent, omniscient being getting offended by the method used in offering prayer to be ludicrous.

But we're still killing each other over just that.

Isn't religion wonderful???

[Guest eureka]

But wasn't paganism also wonderful when we all ran around pillaging and looting and killing for fun and profit?

Let's not put all the weaknesses of the pathetic animal we call homo sapiens on religion.

[The Terrible Sweal]

But wasn't paganism also wonderful when we all ran around pillaging and looting and killing for fun and profit?

what an utterly specious basis to purport to distinguish pagans and monotheists! there were plenty of kind peaceful people who were pagans and plenty of vicious mofos among monotheists.

on the other hand, one real distinction between the two is the vast self-righteusness the monotheists often demonstrate.

[Chloe]

But we're still killing each other over just that.

Isn't religion wonderful???

Its not religion, it's people, there's a difference between the two... so get it right.

[I Miss Trudeau]

on the other hand, one real distinction between the two is the vast self-righteusness the monotheists often demonstrate.

I don't know. I know a lot of extremely self-righteous pagans. I also know a lot of even more extremely self-righteous rationalists, and a lot of self-righteous scienticismists, too.

[Grantler]

Yes, I meant the fundamentalists.

I think that everyone has muslim friends. But, New World vs. the Middle East is a big thing right now and I can only see it gettnig worse as the need for oil increases.

[The Terrible Sweal]

But we're still killing each other over just that.

Isn't religion wonderful???

Its not religion, it's people, there's a difference between the two... so get it right.

Well historically one of the main issues that has driven violent confrontation has been disagreements about religion.

Also, religion is a human artefact, so it's hard to say it stands separate from human choices and actions.

[The Terrible Sweal]

But we're still killing each other over just that.

Isn't religion wonderful???

Its not religion, it's people, there's a difference between the two... so get it right.

Well historically one of the main issues that has driven violent confrontation has been disagreements about religion.

Also, religion is a human artefact, so it's hard to say it stands separate from human choices and actions.

[The Terrible Sweal]

But we're still killing each other over just that.

Isn't religion wonderful???

Its not religion, it's people, there's a difference between the two... so get it right.

Well historically one of the main issues that has driven violent confrontation has been disagreements about religion.

Also, religion is a human artefact, so it's hard to say it stands separate from human choices and actions.

[The Terrible Sweal]

on the other hand, one real distinction between the two is the vast self-righteusness the monotheists often demonstrate.

I don't know. I know a lot of extremely self-righteous pagans. I also know a lot of even more extremely self-righteous rationalists, and a lot of self-righteous scienticismists, too.

Experiences with various individuals was not my point. I was refering to the institutonal characteristics of the main monotheistic religions compared to well known examples of historical pagan religions.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Experiences with various individuals was not my point. I was refering to the institutonal characteristics of the main monotheistic religions compared to well known examples of historical pagan religions.

I'm not sure that the two are so very different. What are your reasons for thinking this?

[PocketRocket]

But we're still killing each other over just that.

Isn't religion wonderful???

Its not religion, it's people, there's a difference between the two... so get it right.

In this case; WE=Generalization meaning the human race.

I would think that would be easily understood.

Sorry if I caused you to have a fly in your soup

But *sigh* to clarify, many people who are particularly fanatical in their religious beliefs are, as their precursers have been for centuries, killing each other over the way each chooses to worship the same god.

Does this make you happier???

[moderateamericain]

excellent topic discussion.

its my personal belief that this fight trancends many many years back to the first crusades, as a christian man i believe that there were to factors that set off the series of events. one was muslim expantion west and into africa which frightened Catholic leadership and also that kings and queens of old europe were unfortunetly influence by religious leadership. Its important to remeber CHRISTIANS invaded the middle east first. Now we can argue semantics on this all day but the reality of it was the first organized campaign was done by christian paladins. It saddens me to think of how much has been lost because of this, if you look at your history the middle east was the center of culture and wealth for many many years, if you compare it to today you can only shake your head in shame. Im a realistic person so i can honestly say that this fight will not die out in are lifetimes. it has passed from generation to generation for countless years and has taken on many form and will do so beyond my and your death

[caesar]

Of course we can co exist with Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and all the other religions; just keep them out of politics. We all live and get along quite well here in Vancouver.

Of course, there has been fighting between the two religions in some parts of the world. More disgusting has been the fighting between Christians such as what has been going on in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics.

[moderateamericain]

Of course we can co exist with Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and all the other religions; just keep them out of politics. We all live and get along quite well here in Vancouver.

Of course, there has been fighting between the two religions in some parts of the world. More disgusting has been the fighting between Christians such as what has been going on in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics.

You just made an excellent point that i would like to touch on.

seperation of church and state.

First off, let me say that I did vote for George W. Bush, (lesser of two evils)

with that being said, I do not appreciate, in fact i downright dislike that the religious fanatics in this country have the presidents ear. To me that is no better than IRAN or any other religious fundementalist country. Seperation of church and state is an absolute must for a country with different religions/cultures to coexsist peacefully. TO date, that is one reason why America has worked so well, the federal and state governments have done a fairly good job of leaving religion out of the government, and i credit that more to liberals than conservatives. BUT, as applies to the conversation we are having, take a country like iraq, which has 2 deeply religious culutres and one secular. i worry that while in the short run the system they are establishing will work, i fear that in the long run it will eventually succom to one religious group or the other, and thatis BAAAAAD. throught history religious control of a country has promoted irrational action. (ex. crusades, ex. Iraq, ex. checnya, ex. congo)

[Digby]

On a Personal bases Muslims can become friends with christians no problem. And im sure if religion is left out they will like each other.

But on a Global world wide scale i beleave its a ticking time bomb . And it will be the cause of many future wars .

One of the big problems is Jerusalem, Its the 3d holiest site in Islam . At one point tey prayed faceing Jerusalem instead of mecca .

Its number one holy site for jews and also for Christians .

I beleave muslim states like Iran will never be happy as long as jews and other occupie Jerusalem . They don't want peace in the middle east such as a 2 state solution .What they actually want is the Jews completly gone off what they consider the worlds 3d most holy site . And I think Isreal knows it .

Its a ticking time bomb ,one with no way to defuse .

Just a matter of time before it explodes . Muslims don't really want to live in peace in the middle east , They want Jews Gone ! Drove in the ocean is a popular way of putting it .

Why do you think peace talks keep getting sabbotaged , They don't want peace , they want their holy city purified . And jews and Christians will never give it up . Jerusalem will someday errupt this world into war .