Junior is mad--quite, quite mad

[Guest eureka]

I completely gree, T & E. I would add only that it is perfectly justifiable at times for a leader to use military force, as in actual self defense against external or internal threats that are real.

Saddam, it could be argued, was justified in certain instances no matter how brutal and sadistic he was in sum.

Bush did not have the justification and I am of the opinion also that he has crossed into psychopathry. He exibited the signs as Governor of Texas and has shown no signs of going into remission since.

[PocketRocket]

It could be argued that this is partly a symptom of our times.

War has become a spectator sport. We have become so accustomed to seeing blood a guts being spilled on tv, both fictional and real, that war is no longer the "horror" that it once was.

Except, of course, if you're in the line of fire.

To Bush, Blair, et al, war is simply something that is happening far away, to other people.

Whatever the REAL motivation behind this war (I don't believe we've been told the truth, and we may never be), being insulated from war's very real effects on very real people makes it easy to point at a map and say "We'll invade there", and then go home and sit down to a nice dinner.

I don't believe that Bush is an "evil" man. Nor do I believe he is particularly psychotic, at least no more so than anyone who seeks public office.

I think he honestly believes that he is doing the right thing. A large segment of the American population seems to agree with him.

But that doesn't necessarily make it so.

[Trial-and-Error]

iTo Bush, Blair, et al, war is simply something that is happening far away, to other people.

Whatever the REAL motivation behind this war (I don't believe we've been told the truth, and we may never be), being insulated from war's very real effects on very real people makes it easy to point at a map and say "We'll invade there", and then go home and sit down to a nice dinner.

s just one of those things

Pocket, Pocket, Pocket - You write as if you condone Junior's separation from the reality of war cuz of the times - or are you now agreeing that the boy is mad, insane, nuts? I mean if you realize that the boy doesn't grasp the reality of war you don't want to be minimizing his madness by simply blaming it on "the times."

Who knows what other plans a psychotic Junior might be hatching in his wretched brain? He could very conceivably ratchet up his diabolical acts to include the use of the bomb. Yeah, yeah, I know, it'll never happen.

I have to laugh--many say that the bomb will never be used again as they point as PROOF to the cold war when all heads prevailed. Ya have to love the optimism even though it's in no way supported by plain common sense. (I know, I know, we can't be coming from a common sense POV--we need an "expert" to back us up--more drivel!!) Why for 60 years we have managed to keep the lid on total anhilitation. Imagine that. Sixty whole years--a period which is not even a blip on the scale of human civilization.

If we don't get a handle on our greed and exploitation of others, and if we don't learn how to identify and thus prevent maniacal individuals from coming to power, we will inevitably unleash our WMD and obliterate ourselves.

The Titantic will never sink. WWII will be the end of all wars. Countries will never again employ torture techniques--and the USA, God's chosen country, would never condone torture much less engage in it. The USA is a liberator. The USA is altruistic. The USA makes preemptive strikes only against those who despise the freedom of the American people. Junior will never use the bomb. Junior is not mad. Everything is under control. Ooooookay.

.

[caesar]

Interesting tidbit I picked up from the UK Telegraph.

Tapes show Bush is not anti-gay but did inhale

By Francis Harris in Washington

(Filed: 21/02/2005)

Secretly recorded tapes released yesterday show that George W Bush rejected calls to take a hard line against homosexuals and that he had smoked marijuana.

[PocketRocket]

T&E:

Evidently you missed my first post in this thread, way back on the first page, wherein I said "That he is mad, I will not argue".

So I am NOT saying that Dubya is NOT insane.

In this thread I am simply contesting the criterion by which the original article is judging him to be so.

As for my previous post, which you slammed quite nicely (good job), I was simply making a couple points....

1) The numbing of the general populace via immersion in scenes of horror, both factual and fictional.....

and, most importantly, right at the very end of that post is something you conveniently seem to have missed.....

2)

I think he honestly believes that he is doing the right thing. A large segment of the American population seems to agree with him.

But that doesn't necessarily make it so.

In other words, Bush is truly convinced that he is on a justified crusade.

I believe he fooled even himself into believing that, along with a large portion of the American public.

When it comes to his actions, I condone nothing. I justify nothing.

That post was simply an attempt to look at Bush's actions and motivations from a somewhat different perspective, which seems to be the overall tenor of this thread.

Personally, I think the man is a self-rightious, deceptive ass, but that's a personal feeling. When debating I generally try to leave personal feelings out. When I do post personal feelings on a matter, I generally add a disclaimer to let folks know that.

Is that better???

[caesar]

Personally, I think the man is a self-rightious, deceptive ass, but that's a personal feeling. When debating I generally try to leave personal feelings out. When I do post personal feelings on a matter, I generally add a disclaimer to let folks know that.

Is that better??? 

I think this forum is really all about personal feelings. We can always find "experts" with diametrically opposed claims on most subjects. All we can really do is sift through the bs and come to logical conclusions.

I did distrust and found him to be very cold hearted as governor of Texas; refusing to stay any executions despite the fact that many prisoners sitting on death row were proven to be innocent all across the USA. While we have cases here in Canada, too; I think that because many of their law officers are put in office by the voters; there is a push to "solve" a case to make themselves look effective.

[Trial-and-Error]

So I am NOT saying that Dubya is NOT insane.

Pocket, I love your double negative - only kidding. I don't think I'll debate with you further on the finer points as it seems we agree for the most part--we among others "get it." Ya have to love self-serving, doncha?

But I agree with Caesar--do, do bring your personal feelings into the debate. As I understand her to say, our opinions should be formed by filtering what we read through our own common sense, experiences, observations et al to arrive at some conclusions that seem "to fit." Who knows who's really right in these debates. Only time will tell, but in the meantime, I'm pretty sure who the "winners" will be--of course.

In the meantime, I really do appreciate your attitude reflected in what I think was a well measured response and will try not to be too quick on the trigger next time.