Sharia law in Ontario

[Richie]

A group of muslims in Mississauga, Ont. has been pushing for the introduction of Sharia in Ontario. This would mean that, through the Arbitration Act, Ontario courts would be enforcing rulings based on a set of tribal laws developed in Arabia over 1,000 years ago. Women would be treated as second class citizens (they would only receive half of what a man would receive on the death of their parents, polygamy would be widely practised in the muslim community in Ontario, divorce is mush easier for a man than a woman under Sharia, etc.).

If you are opposed to this, please contact your MPP and voice your concerns. Queen's Park is all set to give this the green light and it will set women's rights in Ontario back years! Let the politicians know what you think!

Click here to find out who your MPP is: Elections Ontario

[Guest eureka]

I think you may be overstating the case. Sharia Law as it may be applied is little more than an arbitration process. No decision can contravene Canadian Law. If one should, then the injured party would be able to bring it to court.

Other communities now have the same right in law.

[Argus]

I think you may be overstating the case. Sharia Law as it may be applied is little more than an arbitration process. No decision can contravene Canadian Law. If one should, then the injured party would be able to bring it to court.

Other communities now have the same right in law.

It will be considerably different in that everyone who uses it will be a Muslim immigrant. Jews, for example, have an arbitration system, but these Jews are Canadians through and through. I can't see a modern Canadian woman, Jew or not, tolerating any arbitration which didn't see her as an equal party.

A Sharia "court" however, will be presented to largely ignorant, usually illiterate Muslim women as something they have no choice - as a Muslim, but to accept. Even if they realize they can refuse and choose a civil court, and wish to do so there will be enormous pressure put on them from family, religious leaders, clan elders, etc., to be a "good muslim woman" and use the Sharia system.

Where, since Islam considers women to be little more than property - and not very valuable property at that - they will get royally screwed over.

But hey, now that we've got the language police in Ontario. Why not Sharia courts too?

[caesar]

A Sharia "court" however, will be presented to largely ignorant, usually illiterate Muslim women as something they have no choice - as a Muslim,

That is racist nonsense; I have met many Muslim women and they are not illiterate nor ignorant and they are very demanding women nmot shrinking violets. Get out and meet some Muslims and discover your own ignorance.

[Cartman]

Admittedly, I know little about this matter, but the whole thing just seems insane to me. Why should we allow for multiple justice systems? It seems to me that the justice system is pretty fragmented as is, now we are going to create even more variance in punishment? One person will get a really stiff punishment/law applied to them for doing X, but someone else can do the same thing and get a much lighter sentence/law applied to them?

[caesar]

. This would mean that, through the Arbitration Act, Ontario courts would be enforcing rulings based on a set of tribal laws developed in Arabia over 1,000 years ago. Women would be treated as second class citizens (they would only receive half of what a man would receive on the death of their parents, polygamy would be widely practised in the muslim community in Ontario, divorce is mush easier for a man than a woman under Sharia, etc.).

I think you are probably exaggerating. This is arbitration; probably both parties mus t agree to the process. But since polygamy is not legal in Canada; as an arbitration device this certainly would not allow or condone this practice.

If I am wrong; show me government proof.

[Pateris]

The allowance of Sharia law for arbitration, or the allowance of th Jewish courts for similar reasons is simply an outcome of the multiculturalism policies put in place by Trudeau's Liberal government.

If we want people to "assimilate" and live by Canadian rules, then we should ditch "multiculturalism" and outlaw things like this.

But the decision this country made 35 years ago was to be a "mosaic" of different cultures. And that means we accept things like Sharia arbitration courts.

[PocketRocket]

....polygamy would be widely practised in the muslim community in Ontario.....

Realy??? Cool!!!! Where can I sign up???

[Argus]

A Sharia "court" however, will be presented to largely ignorant, usually illiterate Muslim women as something they have no choice - as a Muslim,

That is racist nonsense; I have met many Muslim women and they are not illiterate nor ignorant and they are very demanding women nmot shrinking violets. Get out and meet some Muslims and discover your own ignorance.

First of all, you idiots on the left need to buy a dictionary and find out what the word 'racist' means. You keep flinging it around as an all purpose ad hominem when you don't like what people have to say, and it just makes you look silly.

Second, if you have "met" many Muslim women they are atypical of immigrant Muslim women - especially recent immigrants, most of whom have little or no education and don't speak English. The Muslim world places little importance on the education of women, after all.

[The Terrible Sweal]

A group of muslims in Mississauga, Ont. has been pushing for the introduction of Sharia in Ontario.

That's a rather imprecise description of the situation.

This would mean that, through the Arbitration Act, Ontario courts would be enforcing rulings based on a set of tribal laws developed in Arabia over 1,000 years ago.

That's also something of a distortion, and probably amounts to an appeal to bigotry. By the same logic, some might say the same about our laws, only the ancient geography is different.

Women would be treated as second class citizens (they would only receive half of what a man would receive on the death of their parents, polygamy would be widely practised in the muslim community in Ontario, divorce is mush easier for a man than a woman under Sharia, etc.).

If you are opposed to this, please contact your MPP and voice your concerns.

This suggests that you misunderstand the legal situation. let me clarify for you ... The Arbitration act allows disputing parties to choose to have the dispute heard in a private forum under ANY rules they like. You want the Legislature to act to change that rule. My question is, what change, specifically, do you want the legislature to make to the Arbitration Act? For example, should it exclude family law issues?

[Richie]

First of all, many muslim women in Ontario came here from cultures in which they simply were not educated. We are deluding ourselves if we think these women can fend for themselves when they don't speak or read English and don't even know their own rights under Canadian law.

If you think this makes me a "racist" that's fine, that simply shows that you are still brainwashed by "multiculturalism" and have not learned to think for yourself. I suggest you take a look at this website to see what the other "racists" have to say about sharia law in Ontario.

Sharia is not like any other set of laws we have in the West because of the way it treats women. Women are not considered equals under Sharia law as they are under Canadian law.

For that matter, why should we have religious laws at all here in Canada? Canadian law is well respected and bends over backwards to treat everyone fairly. Why blur the distinction between Church and State???

Polygamy and arranged marriages of girls as young as 13 or 14 are already taking place within the muslim community in Toronto, having Ontario courts enforce decisions by Sharia courts will only serve to institutionalize this practice. Many muslims living here in Toronto left their countries of birth to escape Islamic dictatorships and Sharia law.

I, for one, do not want my tax dollars to go towards supporting the decisions of Sharia based courts!

[kimmy]

This would mean that, through the Arbitration Act, Ontario courts would be enforcing rulings based on a set of tribal laws developed in Arabia over 1,000 years ago.

That's also something of a distortion, and probably amounts to an appeal to bigotry. By the same logic, some might say the same about our laws, only the ancient geography is different.

Some might say that about our laws, but they'd be wrong. Our law is in constant evolution. Recognition of gay marriage is an example.

Many within the Muslim faith, on the other hand, reject the notion that law can evolve: God's law was given to mankind during the time of Mohammed, and screwing around with God's law is viewed in an extremely dim light.

-kimmy

[caesar]

First of all, you idiots on the left need to buy a dictionary and find out what the word 'racist' means. You keep flinging it around as an all purpose ad hominem when you don't like what people have to say, and it just makes you look silly.

Now that is funny coming from you. Any criticism of Israel's policies is suggested to be anti semitism. Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

[caesar]

Second, if you have "met" many Muslim women they are atypical of immigrant Muslim women - especially recent immigrants, most of whom have little or no education and don't speak English. The Muslim world places little importance on the education of women, after all.

Most immigrants men, women, Muslim, Chinese speak little or no English not just Muslim women.

Under Saddam: Iraqi women (Muslim) were well educated.

You are making a broad statement with nothing to back it up.

[Argus]

First of all, you idiots on the left need to buy a dictionary and find out what the word 'racist' means. You keep flinging it around as an all purpose ad hominem when you don't like what people have to say, and it just makes you look silly.

Now that is funny coming from you. Any criticism of Israel's policies is suggested to be anti semitism. Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

Criticism of Israel is certainly valid. I can find all kinds of reasons to criticise Israeli policies, both internal, political, and with respect to the Palestinian question.

However, when you take the position that the poor Palestinian people are being oppressed by the crual, inhuman Israel militarists, and are forever citing Israeli acts of "agression" without ever putting it in context, without ever admitting the Palestinians do the same, without ever admitting Arab nations are as responsible, if not moreso, for the plight of the Palestinians, well, I have to question the motivations. I don't like Sharon and I think his policies are ham handed. But everything he has done the Palestinians have done, every brutality the Israelis have inflicted has been inflicted on them, every hatred returned by more hatred.

[Argus]

Second, if you have "met" many Muslim women they are atypical of immigrant Muslim women - especially recent immigrants, most of whom have little or no education and don't speak English. The Muslim world places little importance on the education of women, after all.

Most immigrants men, women, Muslim, Chinese speak little or no English not just Muslim women.

Under Saddam: Iraqi women (Muslim) were well educated.

You are making a broad statement with nothing to back it up.

Most immigrant women are not giong to be faced by Sharia courts. And I know many, many Muslims. In fact, my riding was referred to in the last election as the one with the highest percentage of Muslims in Ontario - which probably means in Canada. I would guess that between half and two thirds of the people in my neighbourhood are Muslims.

[caesar]

Not likely Argus. I would bet we have you beat here in Vancouver. Will see about figures. How many elected politicians in Ontario are middle eastern of any religion?

[caesar]

nadian statistics on the "poor uneducated Muslim women in Canada"

Nearly one in three Muslim women has a university degree, compared with one in five among all women.

19% reported having at least a Bachelors degree compared with 11.5% of all women.

Twice as many Muslim women hold masters (5%) and doctoral degrees (0.8%) as all women in Canada.

Nearly two-fifths (37 per cent) specialize in a science or engineering discipline compared with 31 per cent of all women.

Twice as many adult Muslim women compared to all adult women were enrolled in educational institutions for improving and upgrading their skills and qualifications.

[caesar]

guess you can stop feeling sorry for all those imaginary undeucated muslim women; they have the rest of us beat when it comes to getting an education in Canada.

Guess those Muslim women I know are not the exception to the rule eh,

[RB]

I think that the muslim women are seemingly uneducated because they are amongst the highest level of the unemployment rates and actually double the unemployment rates for women overall and also exist in relatively poor paying clerical jobs.

Plus I am afraid to say they are also not Westernise in culture e.g. dress, and the images we have of the regions they are from do not jive with education. It is stereotyping but it exists.

But, I believe that we should take a look at and examine Sharia law to understand these women in order to help them.

So education for Canadians to understand Sharia to assist the muslim women better understand Canadian laws, as it take to a reading. Right now the Muslim women believe in a law they understand, Sharia.

I believe though that Canada laws are paramount to all women and that we do need to uphold a universal law for all our women. I would hate to see bureaucracy take over our Canadian family law, just hope that Dalton McGuinty is a lawyer he is when he becomes insightful.

I believe that promotion, awareness and increase education for Muslim women would make them understand what it is to be liberal, to be free and to have a voice.

After education I would like to know what are the divorce rates among the Muslim women, heck, I forgot a whole lot of them have to divorce the same fellow.

[caesar]

Your ignorance is showing. Most Muslim women are getting well educated as I said. Most of them wear westernized style clothing. If they suffer unemployment it is probably due to racial prejudice.

Knowledge-intensive Workforce

The vast majority of Muslims rely on employment to earn their livelihood. Two of their characteristics are worthy of note. First, they are economic migrants, educated and skilled who add to the country's stock of knowledge, convert knowledge into ideas (patents) and into new expressions of old ideas (copyrights), and help create jobs. Twenty-seven per cent of the Muslims in the prime labour force, age group 25 to 44 years, have one or more university degrees, a proportion much higher than the 17 per cent for the population as a whole.

[Richie]

Your ignorance is showing.  Most Muslim women are getting well educated as I said.  Most of them wear westernized style clothing.  If they suffer unemployment it is probably due to racial prejudice.

Why would it be "racial prejudice"? Is islam a race? The islam that has emerged over the last 10 or 20 years is more of a totalitarian political ideology than anything. Your own ignorance is almost as blatant as your knee jerk Politically Correct use of the word "racist". Grow up. If muslim women in Ontario suffer from high levels of unemployment, it's because of the misogyny inherent to islam.

[RB]

"racial prejudice"? ok cool it I can proffer an explanation.

Usually we find cases where people accused others of being racist. "Race" does not only mean a color, but also it means race association of language, orgin, creed, religion, sex. It is one of the reasons you see the human rights complains usually have this common list of 5 in most of their cases.

I have observed a difference between the Muslim men and women and the way they dress, but I of course attribute this difference to their sexuality or sensationality. I mean the distinction is the preoccupation with their lots of hair. The more hair the women can hide the sexier they appear, and the more hair the men can prance about and display lavishly the sexier they are. I clarify, I have no troubles with the way anyone carry themselves with their clothing.

But I can sure make a distinction of clothing to being unemployed however nicely an employer rejects someone, there are safety concerns sometimes to deal with and the unemployment rates are proof of this.

Or maybe they are facing hardship and would like to use their own system. I mean Muslim women are worst off than Canadian women for sure. Their income hover about 20k per yr compare to 32k

I mean only 38% of Muslim women participated full time in the workforce, the rest 10% was part-time and causal. None of these dominated in the professions they are so educated to fit into and are found in sales, cashiers and clerical. 57% of the Muslim women take care of children while they seek employment. 90% identify they belong to this struggling group “visible minority”

We are glad they are well educated, then its time to use it – if they are that smart they definitely would not reconcile with Sharia but find other avenues to speak out.

[RB]

find other avenues to speak out.

sorry continuing ... I could not resist adding to send the folks over to the provincial politics section to engage them in the reinstating Employment Equity in Ontario - now that would do them some good

[caesar]

Why would it be "racial prejudice"? Is islam a race? The islam that has emerged over the last 10 or 20 years is more of a totalitarian political ideology than anything. Your own ignorance is almost as blatant as your knee jerk Politically Correct use of the word "racist". Grow up. If muslim women in Ontario suffer from high levels of unemployment, it's because of the misogyny inherent to islam.

Since they are better educated than the rest of us and are good workers; if they are facing larger unemployment it is because they look middle easter/ Arabic. that is racial prejudice.

It is good that many stay home to raise their own children; the rest of the population should do the same; perhaps we would have more civil and well behaved young adults instead of the greedy self centered persons that many are.