The Border Wall and Border Control

[Cum Laude]

The idea that drones et al can control the border is ludicrous. Boots on the ground and visual surveillance only will control the border. Does anyone listen to the opinions of the Border Patrol actually doing the work.; they are unanimous in favor of building the Wall. Why? So they can concentrate on monitoring the portions of the border where the Wall concept does not work, such as the Rio Grande river. With drones etc.The reason that so much animus is being aimed at the Wall is because using it with all the other barrier techniques will work. What would the USA do with a diminished supply of cheap labor and drugs et al? The Dark Lords of the Deep State will fight tooth and nail over the Wall.

[Penderyn]

19 hours ago, Cum Laude said:

The idea that drones et al can control the border is ludicrous. Boots on the ground and visual surveillance only will control the border. Does anyone listen to the opinions of the Border Patrol actually doing the work.; they are unanimous in favor of building the Wall. Why? So they can concentrate on monitoring the portions of the border where the Wall concept does not work, such as the Rio Grande river. With drones etc.The reason that so much animus is being aimed at the Wall is because using it with all the other barrier techniques will work. What would the USA do with a diminished supply of cheap labor and drugs et al? The Dark Lords of the Deep State will fight tooth and nail over the Wall.

The legal position is. I suppose, clear enough, but why does it matter to anyone sensible?

[blackbird]

The reason why a physical border wall is necessary is because if one illegal migrant steps across the border, the U.S. is obligated to let the person stay while their application goes through the process and hearing which could take a long time.  In the meantime, they may just disappear somewhere in the country and refuse to report to any hearings, knowing they will be ordered deported.  The only way to stop a person from setting foot on American soil is a wall.  The National Guard or border police cannot stop a person from stepping across the border and claiming refugee status.  That is the way the laws are written apparently and cannot be changed possibly because of U.N. conventions which were signed onto by previous administrations.

Edited April 8, 2018 by blackbird

[Penderyn]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

The reason why a physical border wall is necessary is because if one illegal migrant steps across the border, the U.S. is obligated to let the person stay while their application goes through the process and hearing which could take a long time.  In the meantime, they may just disappear somewhere in the country and refuse to report to any hearings, knowing they will be ordered deported.  The only way to stop a person from setting foot on American soil is a wall.  The National Guard or border police cannot stop a person from stepping across the border and claiming refugee status.  That is the way the laws are written apparently and cannot be changed possibly because of U.N. conventions which were signed onto by previous administrations.

Can't most people climb most walls, though?   Is the whole Army going to sit on it, or what?

[blackbird]

9 hours ago, Penderyn said:

Can't most people climb most walls, though?   Is the whole Army going to sit on it, or what?

The idea was to build a high wall with very sharp razors along the top to discourage and make it next to impossible to climb over.  But they need to change the law to make it possible to deal with illegal border migrants right at the wall, question them, and immediately ship them back to Mexico.  The trouble is the UN has taken over nation's sovereignty and made if very difficult to stop illegal migrants.  There are countries in the UN who want to tear down borders and enable the billions of people to move wherever they wish.

Edited April 9, 2018 by blackbird

[Penderyn]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

The idea was to build a high wall with very sharp razors along the top to discourage and make it next to impossible to climb over.  But they need to change the law to make it possible to deal with illegal border migrants right at the wall, question them, and immediately ship them back to Mexico.  The trouble is the UN has taken over nation's sovereignty and made if very difficult to stop illegal migrants.  There are countries in the UN who want to tear down borders and enable the billions of people to move wherever they wish.

They have walls like that here.   I never found them any problem.    What has the UN to do with it?    It has no power over American law that I know of.

[Argus]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 2:33 PM, blackbird said:

The reason why a physical border wall is necessary is because if one illegal migrant steps across the border, the U.S. is obligated to let the person stay while their application goes through the process and hearing which could take a long time.

So change the laws to put them into prison. Or least a camp. That's what Australia does.

Unsurprisingly, this has served to discourage mass migration into Australia from nearby third world countries.

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, Penderyn said:

They have walls like that here.   I never found them any problem.    What has the UN to do with it?    It has no power over American law that I know of.

The U.S. legal system allows illegals to cross the border and remain in the U.S.  I believe it was allowed by the previous administrations because of international conventions, possibly connected with the U.N. on rights of refugees.  Europe has had the same problems.  To change that would probably cause a backlash from the UN and other countries.  I am not sure why the U.S. does not do what Australia does.  Perhaps the legal system in the U.S. would make it more difficult.

[Penderyn]

15 hours ago, blackbird said:

The U.S. legal system allows illegals to cross the border and remain in the U.S.  I believe it was allowed by the previous administrations because of international conventions, possibly connected with the U.N. on rights of refugees.  Europe has had the same problems.  To change that would probably cause a backlash from the UN and other countries.  I am not sure why the U.S. does not do what Australia does.  Perhaps the legal system in the U.S. would make it more difficult.

Most countries  (all, as far as I know) distinguish clearly between economic migrants and refugees.   I think your real problem comes from a lack of enough cheap labour.   It's  probably going to break Brexit or a lot of farmers here too.    My real question is not the legalities but how far covering-up for  inadequate wages is worth the money spent on a big drama about inadequate border-closures.   By and large, whatever anyone does, the movements of capital are followed by the movement of labour, and all governments can do, even if their capitalists allow it,  is delay the process.