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Altai

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We will always hear or read news from our environment and many times these news are presented without any proofs given, in line with the natural flow of life or simply for being a lie. News sources may not be able to prove everything even if its true or they cant show any proofs because they lie to influence public perception. People in general finds it difficult to understand with a full comprehension and they find it easy to trust to the source of what they hear or read. So I have seen many people until now that they directly believe in the news written in a newspaper or told by a tv channel without questioning it and when I ask them why they believe despite they are not given any proof, they simply say that "because its a trust worthy newspaper/channel". This is one of the worsth thing you can do to yourself. You choose to be a zombie by behave such, you choose to be a sheep waiting someone to graze you. So people finds it difficult to understand with a full comprehension because if they would try to research for every single news they hear or read daily, they could not do that even with 24 hours of research daily. Here the purpose of this topic, collecting sources about any news but its not such simple. We cant accept all news links as "true" sources as long as they dont share proofs. Another point is to understand difference between proof and evidence. Proofs cannot be given for immeasurable and non repeating things. You cant prove me that sun rises from the east with a video record. I will claim that video record is fake. You cant prove it by saying there are 20 witnesses who saw that sun was rising from the east, I will say you paid them to lie. You cant prove it showing me documents, I will say documents are false but you will prove it when the sun will start to rise again from the east at 06.00 am. So I am trying to say, we are much more needy to evidences than proofs. Evidences-counter evidences cannot prove something but they can strengthen-weaken a claim based on the concept of possibility. Actually this idea should be a website but this forum enough for beginning. I will take the record of the posts by giving them codes.

Sample template will be as follows:


News/Claim: 

Proof: 

Evidence: 





Rules: All of your post should include links to a website. All evidences have to prove their own claims. The topic may be anything from any countries. I can change the rules according to needs.

Edited by Altai
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Altai your post sounds like you want to control others

You ever think you are putting too much importance on what others say... and  so that's why you are trying to structure or label or control what they say? 

I also found it interesting you waited until your very last words to say.... you can change the rules ,"according to needs". 

Uh yah I bet.

So now what? 

How could anyone  tango with you if you start by sticking a gun in their  face and telling them not to move?

Its just a tango Altai.

 

 

Edited by Rue
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1 hour ago, Rue said:

Altai your post sounds like you want to control others

You ever think you are putting too much importance on what others say... and  so that's why you are trying to structure or label or control what they say? 

I also found it interesting you waited until your very last words to say.... you can change the rules ,"according to needs". 

Uh yah I bet.

So now what? 

How could anyone  tango with you if you start by sticking a gun in their  face and telling them not to move?

Its just a tango Altai.

 

 


You exaggerate it too much. You are free to post whatever you want within the forum rules. I ask for some extra rules in my topic to keep it clean from troll posts and to make it fit for its purpose. If you think that I am trying to restrict your freedom by not allowing you to troll my topics, yes I will do that. You remind me another poster who meant yesterday that Qatar is not a free country because they have brutal punishments and people cannot dare to commit crimes :lol: you exactly sound like him. 

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Here we go with the first claim/news. 

CLAIM: Western countries are supporting Daesh.

EVIDENCES:

1) Western countries dont act despite their allies warns them months before (Moderate)
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/kurdistans-prime-minister-we-warned-u-s-about-isis-iraq-n137686

2) The largest cities in a US-British ally country captured by a bunch of thugs in soo short time(Strong)
https://www.rt.com/news/167636-iraq-cities-captured-isis/

3) Daesh oil trucks have been attacked after years. (Strong)
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.html?_r=0

4) Daesh use many military vehicles and these vehicles cannot work without fuel. So they are still able to receieve high amount of fuel from the rafineries and these rafineries are not destroyed by coalition forces. (Strong)
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/weapons-of-isis.asp

5) Daesh sieges towns-cities and fights for days to seize. When they siege cities, coalition forces dont act to destroy their positions despite they can do it easily. (Strong)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29688108

6) US accidentaly drops weapons to Daesh zone and dont mark the region and dont destroy weapons even together Daesh militants who came to take weapons, despite they can do it easily. (Strong)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/10/21/u-s-accidentally-delivered-weapons-to-the-islamic-state-by-airdrop-militants-allege/?utm_term=.da56419381f6

7) Britain claims their soldiers are within the Daesh militants to avoid coalition airstrikes. So if its such easy to join Daesh, their positions can easily be detected and destroyed. Its not done. (Strong)
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/595439/SAS-ISIS-fighter-Jihadis

8) Daesh uses Youtube and many other Western websites as their propaganda tools. Some of their contents are deleted but there are many others uninvolved.(Strong)
http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/new-isis-islamic-state-news-pictures-videos-no-respite-english-language-propaganda-full-uncensored-youtube-daesh/





 

Edited by Altai
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I change the rules for this topic. Counter evidences or counter proofs will be shared under another news/claim. Evidences are divided into three groups as weak evidence, moderate evidence and strong evidence. Informations which does not include any proof or evidence accepted as "conspiracy". 

Edited by Altai
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NEWS: Suicide bomb attack at Istanbul during a football match output - http://bit.ly/2grBlFP 
CLAIM: Western countries and their tools in Turkiye are supporting terror attacks in Turkiye.
 

PROOFS:

1)
TAK the so called arm of Western backed PKK terror organization which helds terror attacks in cities claims responsiblity for the attack.
http://bit.ly/2hiEe8v


EVIDENCES:  

1) German "journalist" says it was a succesful attack. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hkRFW3

2) Many EU officials do not make any comment about the attack. The ones who comment cannot call the attack as "terror action". (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hzK70u

3) Western backed the Kemalist ideology opposition party CHP's youth branches official social media account makes fun of the terror attack.(Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hhYebe

4) FETO terror organization members who escaped to the Western countries and protected by Western governments makes fun of the terror attack. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2goiCWF

5) Western backed and protected HDP the parliament arm of PKK terror organization celebrates the terror attack. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hzD2Ne

6) Western backed the Kemalist ideology opposition party CHP's leader Kilicdaroglu said that Turkiye's regime cannot be presidency without a blood bath. Bomb attack is happened the same day which Presidential system legislation was offered to the parliament. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hrq8VG

7) Many journalists and artists who supports CHP and FETO makes fun of the terror attack. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2gyXsbT

8) A FETO member so called "journalist" who escapes to US and protected by US said "Bombs will keep blowing." about the terror attack. The same "journalist" was also said that "You all will be caught in your beds and will be executed by hanging at dawn." one day before the coup attempt. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2grDKAc

9) Western News agencies cannot call the attack as "terror action" and call it as "bomb attack", "blast", "explosion". (Strong)
http://bbc.in/2hq5ANd - http://cnn.it/2hnVZnx


10) A Turkish BBC "journalist"  lies and tries to make false propaganda by saying "Pro-govt media hides "the attack" because they didnot make news about it in their newspapers" despite she knows that newspapers were printed before the attack. She also dont apologize for her false propaganda. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hrvQH3

11) Foreign journalists who live in Turkiye reports the explosion immediately after in their social media accounts, even faster than Turkish journalists. (Weak) 
http://bit.ly/2gyZTLs

12) Human Rights Watch cannot call the attack as a "terror action". Call it simply a "bombing". (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2gOcjge

13) Western backed Kemalist and FETO sympathizer media organ tries to provoke people by accusing the government of being cause for the terror attack instead of blaming terrorists.(Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hA4JWq

14) Western backed HDP party the parliament arm of the terror organization rejects to sign a declaration of common condemnation of the terror attack. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hlKYTE

15) BBC rents a residence room one week before from the across the street where the terror attack was happened, the room which have a perfect view of the event area. When the event was happen, BBC immediately started a livestream from the residence room with live broadcasts tools which appearently were fully prepared before the terror attack. (Conspiracy)
http://bit.ly/2heV4Yt

NOTE: BBC Officials made a statement about the claims. They said that which is called as residence room is actually a BBC Office since March and the livestream started 1,5 hours after the attack (again they didnt said "terror" attack). http://bit.ly/2gMh3BX


16) Terror organization tied newspaper which broadcasts from Europe celebrates the terror attack. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2gvd5m1

17) Its appeared that a kind of professional bomb (TNT+RDX+PETN) used which also used by ISIS in Ataturk Airport terror attack and its only prepared by armies in laboratory environment and cannot be prepared without a professional help. This strengthens the prospect that both terror organizations are controlled and supported by the same mind. I take it as moderate evidence because of the possiblity of any other countries like Iran.
 (Conspiracy) 

NOTE: US made a statement about the bombs used in the terror attacks. US officials says that RDX explosive could be made by anyone by using fertilizer. Then I switch the Evidence 17 from "moderate" to "conspiracy". 
http://bit.ly/2gRDniu

Edited by Altai
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NEWS: Terror attack to the bus carrying civilian soldiers.  http://bit.ly/2gVMKMw

CLAIM:  Western countries and their tools in Turkiye are supporting terror attacks in Turkiye.

PROOFS: 
 TAK the so called arm of Western backed PKK terror organization which helds terror attacks in cities claims responsiblity for the attack.
http://bit.ly/2hPzrMv


EVIDENCES:

1) 25 minutes after the terror attack, US newspaper makes an anti-Turkiye propaganda news and indicates a disturbance by Turkiye's ME politics. Newspaper openly implies that attack is a response to Turkiye for its foreign policies. The same newspaper did the same thing after Dolmabahce terror attack a few days ago (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hJbcPw

2) The speaker of US Tv channels and HDP the parliament arm of the terror organization makes provocative comments after the terror attack and says that Turkiye is such an unsafe country because of the government's policies, instead of blaming terror organizations. Such comments after a terror attack only justifies the terrorists and endangers homeland security. These persons are not journalists but operative tools and they should not be allowed to wander around. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2gVOchV

3) Western backed faschist Kemalist party CHP members are blaming the government for the bomb attack instead of blaming terrorists and justifying the terror attack. (Strong)
 http://bit.ly/2huqFW4

4) Western news agencies dont call it as "terror attack" but call it "blast" and "attack". They also dont use the word "terrorist" but use the word "militant". This is an open support for the terrorism. (Strong)
http://bbc.in/2gM1qL4

5) Western backed Turkish media holding prepare fake news without any proofs. Such an act done at the same time with a terror attack only serves for terrorists and put the state in a difficult situation. They try to provoke people instead of calm them. (Strong)
http://bit.ly/2hcyhcH

6) 

Edited by Altai
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  • 3 weeks later...

NEW: A night club in Turkiye been attacked by a terrorist. http://bit.ly/2hNgifT

CLAIM: This terror attack is done by US.

PROOF: 

EVIDENCES: 

1) The attacker is a Kirghiz Turk and FETO terror organizations is soo strong in Kyrgyzstan. Even their president is strongly probable a FETO member. I take this as a moderate evidence. Because he may be a Kirghiz by chance too. But this will be a strong evidence soon because the majority of weak and moderate evidences support each other and make it strong evidence. (Moderate)
http://bit.ly/2i5hEjQ

2) A social media account published the attacker's ID infos. This social media account has a USA IP number and its all old shares targets Turkish govt and has shares friendly with FETO members. This may be a diversion and target deflection, so I take it as a moderate evidence. Then its uncovered that this social media account share the personal infos of an irrelevant person. This may be done to create disinformation and dilute the investigation. The social media account use the photos of an "irrelevant person" which was taken during airport check before the "irrelevant person" flies from Turkiye to Kyrgyzstan. So how come the security forces in the airport allowed him to fly, how come this US social media account reach the photos taken by Turkish security forces. There is really heavy smell of cooperation. (Moderate)
http://bit.ly/2iZBjSm

3) One of the DJ working in Reina said that there were tight security measures while we were coming to the club and police stopped us three times in different points. So this situation strengthens the possiblity that the attacker is supported by some security units within the state. Polices also detained 8 persons who were though of being possible attackers, 1 day ago the new year eve. There were tight security measures to prevent any car bomb attacks may be done in crowded areas. (Moderate)
http://bit.ly/2iz1DDF

Edited by Altai
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I'm still trying to find evidence that FETO even exists. Most of what I'm seeing suggests it was made up by the Turkish govt.

As for the "USA IP Social Media account" --Tim Hogan is an American who often blogs and reposts items regarding the fight against ISIS. That he retweeted a picture is evidence of nothing.

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2 hours ago, Bryan said:

I'm still trying to find evidence that FETO even exists. Most of what I'm seeing suggests it was made up by the Turkish govt.

As for the "USA IP Social Media account" --Tim Hogan is an American who often blogs and reposts items regarding the fight against ISIS. That he retweeted a picture is evidence of nothing.


Here the question is how come he can reach the attacker's private infos while even officials cannot. I think he has some tight relations with FETO organization.

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1 hour ago, Altai said:


Here the question is how come he can reach the attacker's private infos while even officials cannot. I think he has some tight relations with FETO organization.

He has plenty of informants. Someone in the Turkish govt probably leaked it to him. If FETO exists, he might have contacts there too.

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2 hours ago, Bryan said:

He has plenty of informants. Someone in the Turkish govt probably leaked it to him. If FETO exists, he might have contacts there too.


Now you start to understand. So someones leaks him informations that ordinary persons cannot reach. And these informatins appeared as being fake for the "second" time. Someones are deliberately trying to distort investigations about the event. They show irrelevant persons as target, probably to hide the real criminals. 

Edited by Altai
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Just now, Altai said:

So someones leaks him informations that ordinary persons cannot reach. 

That is a really common occurrence. People on the inside who don't like what they are seeing forward things anonymously. There's nothing remotely suspicious about that.

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1 hour ago, Bryan said:

That is a really common occurrence. People on the inside who don't like what they are seeing forward things anonymously. There's nothing remotely suspicious about that.


Ofcourse this is not normal. Why would a state official working in an airport send personal infos of someone to a terror organization sympatizer "blogger" without rhyme or reason ? They should be revealed and sentenced.

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15 minutes ago, Altai said:


Ofcourse this is not normal. Why would a state official working in an airport send personal infos of someone to a terror organization sympatizer "blogger" without rhyme or reason ? They should be revealed and sentenced.

It's totally normal, and Tim Hogan is not a terrorist sympathizer. Exposing terrorism is his main schtick.

For sure, it's illegal though. People who do leak important information definitely risk getting fired if not charged.

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1 hour ago, Bryan said:

It's totally normal, and Tim Hogan is not a terrorist sympathizer. Exposing terrorism is his main schtick.

For sure, it's illegal though. People who do leak important information definitely risk getting fired if not charged.


If you think this is normal, sorry but you are not "normal". 

Okay now, I have an offer, if I can prove that he is a terrorist supporter, will you leave this forum for ever ? 

Edited by Altai
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15 minutes ago, Altai said:

Okay now, I have an offer, if I can prove that he is a terrorist supporter, will you leave this forum for ever ? 

What is the value in that. Bryan and I rarely agree, but I don`t come to this and other on-line forums to find an echo chamber. Debating with others with differing opinions is the value of these forums.

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20 minutes ago, Altai said:


If you think this is normal, sorry but you are not "normal". 

Okay now, I have an offer, if I can prove that he is a terrorist supporter, will you leave this forum for ever ? 

REALLY???????????

 People argue for your right to speak your batshit crazy statements and now you are asking people to leave the forums. 

You are a perfect example of the Turkey government. Demanding everybody agree with you and ignore or punish those that don't. 

 

Edited by Ash74
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1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

What is the value in that. Bryan and I rarely agree, but I don`t come to this and other on-line forums to find an echo chamber. Debating with others with differing opinions is the value of these forums.


Sorry but I am not in this forums to listen nonsenses. I want honest persons around me. If you want to take responsiblity, you can accept my offer instead of him. Will you leave the forum if I can prove the person is a terrorist supporter ? Come on, we will remember you as a brave person : ) or you will keep staying as a dishonest person.

Edited by Altai
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3 minutes ago, Altai said:

If you want to take responsiblity, you can accept my offer instead of him. Will you leave the forum if I can prove the person is a terrorist supporter ? Come on, we will remember you as a brave person : ) or you will keep staying as a dishonest person.

Are you calling me a dishonest person?

I am in this forum to interact with others, not to play childish bravado games. If you have some evidence about Tim Hogan you would like to share, then please do. I don't know him from a hole in the ground, I have nothing vested in his character.

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1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

Are you calling me a dishonest person?

I am in this forum to interact with others, not to play childish bravado games. If you have some evidence about Tim Hogan you would like to share, then please do. I don't know him from a hole in the ground, I have nothing vested in his character.


I am not interested with dishonest interacts.

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Russians who take aid truck photos from miles away and claims of being oil trucks carrying oil to Turkiye, now targets US with a much more logical claim; "US is not destroying ISIS oil facilities deliberately." Russian spokesman said that "This is amazing that coalition and US are not shooting ISIS oil facilities." 

Source: http://bit.ly/2ieun3M

I also added this info into the "Western countries are supporting Daesh" claim. You can find it in above posts. Even drunk Russians can see such a thing, even though years later but Western people still dont think that their countries are supporting Daesh :o


I remember someone said that "US is not shooting oil facilities to avoid environmental pollution." :wacko:

Edited by Altai
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Now, I found more infos about Reina Club Attack;

- There are 400 security cameras in the club.

- Officials thinks that the attacker is given support from inside the club and from outside.

- Officials thinks that this was a message given to Britain by US.



Now the question is where is the attacker, I can reach to more infos than any ordinary persons ^_^ I will tell you where he is gone. He is gone to Greek Islands. 

I have more infos but I cant tell you, maybe in the future. 

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30 minutes ago, Altai said:

Now, I found more infos about Reina Club Attack;

- There are 400 security cameras in the club.

- Officials thinks that the attacker is given support from inside the club and from outside.

- Officials thinks that this was a message given to Britain by US.



Now the question is where is the attacker, I can reach to more infos than any ordinary persons ^_^ I will tell you where he is gone. He is gone to Greek Islands. 

I have more infos but I cant tell you, maybe in the future. 

Could it be more likely that the terrorists were actually Turkish special forces with the mission to create fear and terror so that the government could continue its quest for more power and control over the mass population?

Terrorism is always a useful tool for the government in power to gain more control. Look at the US after 9/11. The Patriot Act was a disgusting piece of history and allowed George Bush an excuse to invade Iraq which led to this whole sh!t show in the ME right now. 

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