Internet Piracy

[lowly_caterpillar]

I am doing a Law project on internet piracy and was appaled to find that not a single thread on this site is dedicated to this topic

I'll start ot off by saying that, as an "internet pirate" (wow nasty term) I don't feel that i'm really taking the food off of someones table, I cant afford to shell ouut 15$ a pop for any cd that I want, in fact I am an avid collector of old records, second hand ones, after all isn't buying music secondand the same as downloading it from another source?

When I get a good job and am able to afford music, I fully intend to furnish myself quite a collection, if I like the music enough then i'm going to want the pretty cd and liner notes that come with it.

The music industry doesn't seem to be pumping out the highest quality of music nowadays anyway, is this because they can't afford to pay better artists (because of their diminishing profits) or because they are so out of touch with their consumers?

[Hugo]

There was actually a thread here which deviated into a discussion of copyright. You posted in it, too, so you can't have been unaware of it!

[Cartman]

Well, I do not pirate any movies or CD's. I am uncomfortable with taking something that does not belong to me, though I shed no tears for companies that lose $$ due to pirating. I agree that they often put out crappy products and they destroy creativity.

BTW, I worked in management for an electronics company and at $15.00 per CD, the distributor is making a pretty healthy profit (depending on how many they sell of course).

[Tawasakm]

you insist on havin futile discussions on religion

You have been contributing to exactly that topic. Have you been insisting that you, yourself, contribute futiley to the discussion?

Your priorites and areas of interest may well be very different to those people who are discussing such 'futile' subject matter but, nonetheless, please show a little more respect.

[lowly_caterpillar]

I certainly do participate in those futile discussions, even though I am aware that their cant possibly be a resolution to it as is unfortunately the case with most of the worlds problems

[lowly_caterpillar]

I didnt intend to offend anyone, I try not to take this too seriously, so please dont take anything i say too personally

[Cartman]

Who cares whether the discussions are futile (to the extent of completely changing peoples' minds)?! I am probably not going to change Hugo's beliefs in anarchy and I will likely not change August's beliefs in capitalism etc. All I can gain is a deeper appreciation for their perspectives. The idea is simply to exchange viewpoints and evaluate the logic used. The result is that we either amend our ideas or identify why they are valid. As a lefty, I would be pretty bored just talking to like-minded people. My point is just perfect your thought.

Caterpillar has posed a relevant thought. Many people pirate and feel that pirating is acceptable. Some corporations are suing people (usually teens) for doing so. Is this appropriate? Should they be able to force internet companies to identify customers? Should music (dinosaur) companies modernize and move their businesses to the internet? These are important questions IMO.

[August1991]

I didnt intend to offend anyone, I try not to take this too seriously, so please dont take anything i say too personally

This forum has the tremendous advantage of freedom. It is impossible to offend anyone on this forum truly (after all, you are only anonymous words on a computer screen).

In addition, compared to the absolute nonsense others post here sometimes, your posts low caterpillar/airborne butterfly are comprehensible. IOW, have no fear of offense, but you may need to explain.

----

Yes, in principle, property should be protected. Cows survive but elephants are an endangered species.

How costly is it to protect property, and what is the potential benefit of its protection?

Protection of property? What about protection of an idea? Or a beautiful melody?

[Cartman]

Yes, in principle, property should be protected.

What do you mean "in principle"? This sounds rather soft. Of course it should be protected, the question is how punishment should or might vary.

[Tawasakm]

I didnt intend to offend anyone, I try not to take this too seriously, so please dont take anything i say too personally

I don't take these discussions personally although I do take them seriously - they are an excellent opportunity for me to learn. I wasn't offended. I was only asking you to show a bit more respect since the things you view as 'futile' may seem quite meaningful to others.

As to internet piracy - it is against the law. Broadly speaking breaking the law should be construed as wrong. I'm not sure why people seem to think that the validity of law ends whenever you dial in to your server.

[Choke]

I find the entire idea of intellectual property to be ridiculous. Live performances (or in the case of movies, their public display in theatres) can support performing artists, and as for software companies, retail software is less buggy and provides support/updates, so there will always be an incentive to buy it. If you create a product but can't market it well, and someone else can, they deserve to reap the benefits, IMO.

If it were up to me, there would be no copyright laws at all.

[August1991]

What do you mean "in principle"? This sounds rather soft. Of course it should be protected, the question is how punishment should or might vary.

If I invent a funny joke, in theory, I could claim it as mine and assert property rights over it. Anyone who told the joke would have to pay me.

Protecting such property rights would be difficult and costly. The benefit is not worth the hassle. As a result, the world has fewer jokes than otherwise.

I find the entire idea of intellectual property to be ridiculous.... If it were up to me, there would be no copyright laws at all.

That's the other extreme. Without some protection of intellectual property, we would have far fewer inventions, music, literature, technology, cinema. The world would be a much poorer place.

I suspect the quality of pop music is already begin to suffer from file-sharing.

[Newfie Canadian]

If I invent a funny joke, in theory, I could claim it as mine and assert property rights over it. Anyone who told the joke would have to pay me.

To reiterate August's point(if you don't mind August), how many people here knew that the Happy Birthday song is copyrighted by Warner Communications?

I owe them a bundle.

The Happy Birthday song is more than one hundred years old. It was written in 1893 by two sisters, Patty and Mildred Hill, who were schoolteachers in Louisville, Kentucky. The tune was originally a morning greeting to their students entitled "Good Morning To All." The lyrics were copyrighted in 1935, 11 years before Patty's death, and the ownership has swapped hands in multi-million dollar deals ever since. The current copyright is owned by Warner Communications. They purchased it in 1989 for more than $22 million dollars

[lowly_caterpillar]

BAHA! thats hilarious!

anyways back to business...

I would like to apologize for my use of the word futile,and im sorry that it stirred people so much that it ended up detracting from all of our learning experiences (including mine, but i suppose I out of everyone desrved it)

I do also agree that the sad state of pop music could have something to do with this whole caffufle (dunno how to spell, only how to say), buuuuut as a young adult (and the target for most pop music) in the world today i must say that file sharing has improved my appreciation for music, but i also must say that i am very cheap and when music is this available i am guilty of taking advantage of the laws lenience.

On the other hand music ( i know that internet piracy entails much more than that) is a very important aspect of culture and if filesharing became severely punished I think that the readily available good music would become scarce and this in turn would create the perfect blank canvas of moldable minds for all of the corporate perverted britney spears pushing freaks out there.

[lowly_caterpillar]

Another thing i'd like to add is that fm radio quality is going down the tubes, but its spawning some very good university stations and im thinking that the revolt against huge culturally detached corporations (god that sounded lefty) is a good thing im just worried about when the corporations will catch onto this and use it as a marketing tool.

[August1991]

if filesharing became severely punished I think that the readily available good music would become scarce and this in turn would create the perfect blank canvas of moldable minds for all of the corporate perverted britney spears pushing freaks out there.

On the contrary, the one sector of the market that seems to work is the young end where kids haven't yet figured out how to download for free.

its spawning some very good university stations

Radio is the one medium where artists get paid for their services.

Both ASCAP and BMI keep track of what music is played and how frequently. Radio stations must keep log books reporting every song they play. BMI and ASCAP then compile all these reports and apportion the revenue they collect among the songs which were performed publicly.

ASCAP/BMI

im thinking that the revolt against huge culturally detached corporations (god that sounded lefty) is a good thing im just worried about when the corporations will catch onto this and use it as a marketing tool.

Marketing tool? What do you mean?

Corporations merely respond to the "market" or, in the case of pop music, the transient desires of young people. I suspect the Brittany Spears/young-end may still be profitable because young kids haven't yet figured out how to download.

BTW, the real killer will be increased band-width, bigger hard-drives and then sharing DVDs. This happens now but on a relatively small scale.

[Choke]

I suspect the quality of pop music is already begin to suffer from file-sharing.

I don't think that's possible...to get worse, it would have to defy the laws of physics.

[Tawasakm]

I realise there is alot of rubbish being marketed and produced by the music industry but there are still great artists out there. It's not ALL rubbish.

[lowly_caterpillar]

what do you guys think of libraries? where for two dollars you can buy yourself a lifeltime membership and take home cd after cd and dvd after dvd until your ears and eyes give out.

mind you libraries aren't always going to cater to your particular taste in music, buuuut there is the oft unused suggestion box which could potentially get you anything you want.

I think that the development of the mps format is somthing that the music industry is going to have to deal with

If you create a product but can't market it well, and someone else can, they deserve to reap the benefits, IMO.

I agree with this completely, they cant just complain because their lack of creativity and cunning is losing them money, they need to start working as hard as the hackers, consider all of these filesharing programs resumes for these geniuses.

[lowly_caterpillar]

yes, the radio pays for the music and we pay by listening to the horrendous advertising but if you wanted to take the time you could make yourself a butload of mixtapes and never pay for the artists work. The issue here is that the mp3 format and the simplicity of downloading programs, it has become so widespread and commonplace that the law and the man is scrambling, which is a bit fun to watch but will definitely have some consequences for our society i'm just trying to wrap my mind around what theyre going to be.

[lowly_caterpillar]

QUOTE

if filesharing became severely punished I think that the readily available good music would become scarce and this in turn would create the perfect blank canvas of moldable minds for all of the corporate perverted britney spears pushing freaks out there. On the contrary, the one sector of the market that seems to work is the young end where kids haven't yet figured out how to download for free.

but when these youngins do learn, and then get the option taken away they will be left standing in the cold until some "friendly" record company offers them the newest pop phenomenon.