BC_chick Posted July 1, 2016 Report Posted July 1, 2016 I would LOVE to see you just get through one day in a classroom of 9 year olds ... let alone actually teach them anything! Lol Exactly. It's a huge skill. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Argus Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Posted July 1, 2016 You don't need a university degree to do open heart surgery either, you can learn from youtube. Seriously? Did you think that was clever? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Posted July 1, 2016 I did calculate the 9 weeks off in the summer (in the very post you quoted). Still comes out to 40/hr and I find that very reasonable pay for a teacher with 5+ years of higher education. As has been pointed out, we don't pay people based on their years of education, but on how much they can command. And on their own, teachers can't command anywhere near $80,000 a year. Regarding not needing a degree, you need a university degree to teach lower levels You "need" a university degree to teach fingerpainting the way you "need" a university degree to pick up the garbage. The fact is that teaching is a matter of personality. If you've got the personality for it you'll be a great teacher. If not, your university degree is of very little value. I wonder why you spend so much energy on teachers and poor people and never have I heard you make a peep about the CEO's who make by lunch hour what a teacher makes for a whole year. I don't pay CEOs of private corporations. However, I have been known to comment on the large salaries we pay to the heads of hospitals and universities, not to mention Hydro One.. And what shareholders pay CEOs comes out of their profit. What we pay to teachers comes out of the money available to pay for other things. The same goes for other overpaid public servants, like bus drivers and cops. The amount might seem small to you, but it's enormously bigger considering how many hundreds of thousands of people we're paying. There are over 750,000 teachers in Canada. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Posted July 1, 2016 Are teachers the only professions with industry standards? No, why single them out? If they really are 'overpaid' (I strongly disagree with that but for argument's sake), why do we place so much emphasis on them and not CEO's? Cops make more than teachers. Yet they don't even require a university degree. Same goes for firefighters. What do you think of their salaries? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Posted July 1, 2016 I can see you have no idea of the complexity of teaching and learning. We have three quarters of a million teachers. It can't be that complex or there wouldn't be so many people able to do it. I would LOVE to see you just get through one day in a classroom of 9 year olds ... let alone actually teach them anything! Lol Why would I need to teach them anything? If I have tenure I can just go through the motions and not care if they all fail. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/allan-richarz-ontarios-teachers-are-overpaid Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Posted July 1, 2016 You refuted nothing I said because I never made the argument that it's one of the most stressful jobs - I said it's more stressful than *similar jobs*. So? Being a taxi driver is among the most dangerous jobs. Does that mean we should triple their salaries? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Exactly. It's a huge skill. Again, you're ignoring the fact that job salaries are set by how much money is needed to attract sufficient capable workers. Except for the public sector. In the private sector teachers don't command nearly so high a salary. For that matter, it's hard to find many places on this planet where teachers command such a high salary. The same goes for our cops, firefighters and bus drivers, and a lot of other public sector workers. You act like we're simply not being generous by arguing against this, yet you seem to be completely ignoring the costs of overpaying our public sector employees. The result is we starve other services we need, and we starve the services we get. We could have better health care, better policing, and better schools if we paid people a reasonable salary which is in line with what the law of supply and demand would call for. The average bus driver salary in New York City - not an inexpensive jurisdiction - is $41k. Why were there almost a hundred TTC bus drivers on the sunshine list last year? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2010/03/31/ttcs_bigearners_club_up_by_almost_onethird.html There is an immense societal cost to overpaying so many government employees. Edited July 1, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted July 1, 2016 Report Posted July 1, 2016 We have three quarters of a million teachers. It can't be that complex or there wouldn't be so many people able to do it. Why would I need to teach them anything? If I have tenure I can just go through the motions and not care if they all fail. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/allan-richarz-ontarios-teachers-are-overpaid As I thought. You have no clue. Kids would eat you for lunch. . Quote
jacee Posted July 1, 2016 Report Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) You "need" a university degree to teach fingerpainting the way you "need" a university degree to pick up the garbage.Omg ... The kids would be finger painting you! LolArgus, you're hilarious. Hint: It's not about the paint. It's about the kids. 15, 20, 25 kids ... all day every day ... in a small room. You.would.be.mincemeat! You are simply not capable of doing the job, Argus. BTW ... You still haven't posted a link for your 'data' on average teacher salaries. Did you just make it up? . Edited July 1, 2016 by jacee Quote
Argus Posted July 2, 2016 Author Report Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Omg ... The kids would be finger painting you! Lol Argus, you're hilarious. Hint: It's not about the paint. It's about the kids. 15, 20, 25 kids ... all day every day ... in a small room. I don't get why you think this is an astonishingly complex job that only a rare few could manage. It's a job which has been done for generations by a lot of fairly mediocre people, and often by people without university degrees. There's no evidence that giving teachers degrees or even multiple degrees results in better student grades either. Are you aware that mothers used to routinely handle families of ten or more children? And they usually didn't even have any great amount of education! OMG! How was that possible!? You.would.be.mincemeat! You are simply not capable of doing the job, Argus. As usual, you make absolute statements with an absolute lack of knowledge. Congratulations on being predictable. BTW ... You still haven't posted a link for your 'data' on average teacher salaries. Did you just make it up? I posted it. You ignored it. Try reading the cites I post sometime. Edited July 2, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
August1991 Posted July 2, 2016 Report Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) According to some arbitrary index , Finland is top. http://yle.fi/uutiset/despite_challenges_finland_tops_stability_and_human_capital_rankings/8991348 Canada is among other Scandinavian countries, other small European countries - and even the US. ===== Years ago, I spent time in Finland; walked around Helsinki. (I saw that Warren Beatty filmed his movie "Reds" there as if it were Russian St. Petersburg... ) At the time, I learned something new about Canada. There is a country more boring than Canada: Finland. Edited July 2, 2016 by August1991 Quote
cybercoma Posted July 3, 2016 Report Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) According to google the average teacher salaries in Ontario are $82k for elementary teachers and $87k for high school teachers.What is the average age of teachers in Ontario?The answer is 45 (median). Half of the teachers in Ontario are over 45 years old. What do you suppose someone who has been teaching for just about 20 years on average should be making? Edited July 3, 2016 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted July 3, 2016 Report Posted July 3, 2016 I swear, you people throw around facts and figures without taking half a second to look at the context. In this case half the teachers in Ontario are 20 years or less from retirement and you wonder why their average salary is so high. smdh. Quote
grreatgun Posted January 3, 2023 Report Posted January 3, 2023 I read this thread for about two pages, and then I realized why this country, or even any country is mediocre; People simply don't care! Quote
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