The Final Knock Out

[Big Guy]

Muhammed Ali has just died at the age of 74:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/04/world/muhammad-ali-obituary/index.html

I have been trying to watch important news on TV and instead am bombarded with testimonials and life history of Cassius Clay. Yes, he was controversial in his position on the Vietnam war, black supremacy, black rights and other social issues.

Personally, I was not impressed with what Ali did and stood for:

“Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee” and dead like a doornail.

Not a fan when he was alive, not a fan after he is dead.

[Guest]

And yet, you saw fit to create a thread.

I was never a boxing fan, but I liked Muhammad Ali. I just did, no real reason.

Edited June 4, 2016 by bcsapper

[msj]

Mo be gone.

Woe be us.

Found this doc over the intertubes about his relationship with Joe Frazier:

Like most of us, he was a jerk at some points in his life (although his jerkitude was at world champ levels).

Nice look back at the times in the 60's and 70's which I don't really remember since I was lucky enough to be born in Canada and was 2 when the Thrilla in Manilla occurred.

[Big Guy]

And yet, you saw fit to create a thread.

I was never a boxing fan, but I liked Muhammed Ali. I just did, no real reason.

What criteria is required to create a thread?

I thought it worth my time to create a thread and state my opinion. You took the time to comment on it.

This is obviously considered to be important news since it is being carried on all television stations. My comment is that I view the slant of the coverage (what appears to me) to be flawed and revisionist.

[BC_chick]

This is obviously considered to be important news since it is being carried on all television stations. My comment is that I view the slant of the coverage (what appears to me) to be flawed and revisionist.

How so? What do you find revisionist and what specifically don't you like about him?

[Guest]

What criteria is required to create a thread?

I would imagine one would have to care a little about the subject of the thread. I've never started a thread about knitting.

But that said, I agree it's not actually a requirement.

Edited June 4, 2016 by bcsapper

[bush_cheney2004]

Poor dear...forced to watch so much 'Murican television programming and other media.

Muhammad Ali was an international figure...at one time he was arguably the best known human being on the planet....and elsewhere.

[Big Guy]

How so? What do you find revisionist and what specifically don't you like about him?

I believe that Ali is one of the reasons that the blacks are having such a bad time in the USA . He went out of his way to aggravate whites, gave credence to Malcolm X and indirectly led to the Black Panther movement.

He was a very good boxer and entertainer and managed to use those skills to make lots of money. He is held up by some blacks to black children as someone to emulate. I think he was the worst thing that could have happened to the black equality movement in the USA.

Now I see him being hailed as the greatest civil rights advocate.

I believe that to be revisionist.

[bush_cheney2004]

I believe that Ali is one of the reasons that the blacks are having such a bad time in the USA . He went out of his way to aggravate whites, gave credence to Malcolm X and indirectly led to the Black Panther movement.

How dare he do that...angering white Canadians too ! Didn't he know his place ?

[BC_chick]

I believe that Ali is one of the reasons that the blacks are having such a bad time in the USA . He went out of his way to aggravate whites, gave credence to Malcolm X and indirectly led to the Black Panther movement.

It's preposterous to think one or two men (or one aspect of a civil rights movement) influenced a people more than centuries of slavery, racism and hate.

[Big Guy]

It's preposterous to think one or two men (or one aspect of a civil rights movement) influenced a people more than centuries of slavery, racism and hate.

Ali just added to the problem. He helped create a rift between the races. The reaction was government imposed integration laws and processes that served only to maintain the same problem.

School busing has finally been revealed as a mistake, affirmative action programs are being terminated or reviewed and the social architects have failed. I believe that full integration and civil rights for all would have occurred far quicker without government interference or the proclamations of Malcolm X and Muhammed Ali.

You requested my reasons for my attitude towards Ali so I have shared them with you. My position is not a popular one but is shared by many who are concerned about the continuing inequality between races notwithstanding all of these government programs tht have failed.

[BC_chick]

Not only is it an unpopular opinion but one I had never heard. Although I still disagree strongly, I was genuinely interested on who could possibly not like Muhammed Ali. Indeed, thank you for sharing.

I have nothing but respect for him. There is no killing them with kindness when it comes to people who view blacks as inferior (and there are many like that and nothing will ever change that). While the Black Panthers were playing the exact same violent game as their enemies, Ali fought with his brain. Given the streotypes of dangerous angry black men, he was everything they feared: an intelligent strong man who fights with ideas and words.

And his draft-dodging is legendary for showing personal conviction. Very little people would be willing to sacrifice their lucrative career for what's 'right'. In his words: the draft is about white people sending black people to fight yellow people to protect the country they stole from red people". So much is said with so few words.

Brains, brawns and a pretty face. In my opposite view, I find very little to dislike.

[Big Guy]

Not only is it an unpopular opinion but one I had never heard. Although I still disagree strongly, I was genuinely interested on who could possibly not like Muhammed Ali. Indeed, thank you for sharing.

...

Brains, brawns and a pretty face. In my opposite view, I find very little to dislike.

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I personally likes Muhammad Ali. I was a real boxing fan from the days of Rocky Graziano and followed Cassius Clay after he won at the Olympics. I respect athletes and especially those who work hard to become one of the best in the world. My problem with Ali is his foray into civil rights. He chose Malcolm X as his mentor. Malcolm used him to create the Black Panthers - a movement that sent civil rights back for years.

I respect your opinion but I have my own. The blacks who see Malcolm X as a great black leader also see Ali as a fighter for the betterment of blacks. I do not.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The blacks who see Malcolm X as a great black leader also see Ali as a fighter for the betterment of blacks. I do not.

Maybe Muhammad Ali felt the same way about Queen Elizabeth as leader of the "whites" in Canada, and civil rights for "visible minorities".

Another twisted perspective from north of the border.

[BC_chick]

The interesting thing about Malcolm X was the evolution that his life journey took. I read his autobiography and in context his life and views make a lot of sense. His difficult youth paved the way for his beliefs in NOA, but ultimately he became aware of the flaws in NOA's divisional ways. He knew they were going to kill him and the last chapters of the book are very spooky for the reader, knowing how the story will end.

I don't see Malcolm X as the evil that many do. I think his views had a rightful place in history and his evolution showed the true spirit of him as a man.

Maybe the fact that I view Malcolm X as such is the reason why I don't think badly of Muhammad Ali's alliance with him.