Our new Syrian refugee immigrants.

Omni · December 10, 2016

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

Oh please. It costs about $50,000 to process each refugee claim to begin with. We took in 40,000 this year, which is $2 billion. In addition, we have to pay for their food, clothing, shelter, health care and education. And we'll have to do it for twice as many next year since they'll be letting in another 40-50,000. In addition, the cost of caring for the elderly immigrants we let in was estimated at $2 billion per year. Trudeau grandly doubled the numbers coming in, so there's another $4 billion per year.

I have no idea where you are getting those #'s.

Argus · December 10, 2016

24 minutes ago, Omni said:

I have no idea where you are getting those #'s.

Well, my numbers for the cost for refugees is twofold. First there's this, which gives the $50,000 figure to process refugee claims, then there's the fact that more honest countries like Austria, actually say how much dealing with refugees is going to cost them. You'll note they set aside 2 billion pounds for 2017 for an estimated 37,000 refugees, for example. Or Denmark, which saved billions by tightening immigration controls. Then there's Sweden, which says it will cost them about $8.4 billion next year caring for 190k refugees. The figures the Liberals have given are laughable by comparison, and account for almost none of the daily/monthly/yearly costs which will mostly be born by provinces and municipalities.

As for the cost of elderly immigrants, there's this.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Argus

Omni · December 10, 2016

Just now, Argus said:

Well, my numbers for the cost for refugees is twofold. First there's this, which gives the $50,000 figure to process refugee claims, then there's the fact that more honest countries like Austria, actually say how much dealing with refugees is going to cost them. You'll note they set aside 2 billion pounds for 2017 for an estimated 37,000 refugees, for example. Or Denmark, which saved billions by tightening immigration controls. Then there's Sweden, which says it will cost them about $8.4 billion next year caring for 190k refugees. The figures the Liberals have given are laughable by comparison, and account for almost none of the daily/monthly/yearly costs which will mostly be born by provinces and municipalities.

As for the cost of elderly immigrants, there's this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/22/syrian-refugees-federal-budget-2016_n_9525346.html

http://globalnews.ca/news/2594151/federal-budget-2016-syrian-refugees-could-cost-taxpayers-nearly-1-billion/

Argus · December 10, 2016

7 minutes ago, Omni said:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/22/syrian-refugees-federal-budget-2016_n_9525346.html

http://globalnews.ca/news/2594151/federal-budget-2016-syrian-refugees-could-cost-taxpayers-nearly-1-billion/

Uhm, so you're showing me news programs which blandly quote the Liberal press release, which I've already pointed out is clearly dishonest, and using that to argue that somehow we can get away with spending just a couple of hundred million a year on our refugees even though it cost the Europeans billions? Have I got that right?

Omni · December 10, 2016

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Uhm, so you're showing me news programs which blandly quote the Liberal press release, which I've already pointed out is clearly dishonest, and using that to argue that somehow we can get away with spending just a couple of hundred million a year on our refugees even though it cost the Europeans billions? Have I got that right?

You should know by now that it's usually easy to find numbers somewhere that support whatever we want them to.

Argus · December 10, 2016

7 minutes ago, Omni said:

It's only one obvious conclusion one comes to as to why you might wish to deny helping people fleeing a terribly war torn country. And dredge up fake numbers to support the idea. Who's losing the argument?

Fake numbers? I produced numbers which you have been unable to intelligently discuss. I also told you precisely why I prefer to help Canadians than foreigners. Perhaps you're not a Canadian and so have no similar preference. In any event, you making up motivations on the part of your interlocutor as you realize you have nothing to rebut their position, and trying to turn the conversation onto their supposed immorality is an old trick for you, and one I will not play.

Omni · December 10, 2016

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Fake numbers? I produced numbers which you have been unable to intelligently discuss. I also told you precisely why I prefer to help Canadians than foreigners. Perhaps you're not a Canadian and so have no similar preference. In any event, you making up motivations on the part of your interlocutor as you realize you have nothing to rebut their position, and trying to turn the conversation onto their supposed immorality is an old trick for you, and one I will not play.

I am very much a Canadian and as such believe that we should help others who need it most, regardless of borders or skin colors. I would certainly prefer, and I'm sure they would as well, that we stop bombing the hell out of their country so they wouldn't have to flee for their lives. Maybe Trump can speak to his good buddy Putin and get that done.

Argus · December 10, 2016

Just now, Omni said:

I am very much a Canadian and as such believe that we should help others who need it most, regardless of borders or skin colors. I would certainly prefer, and I'm sure they would as well, that we stop bombing the hell out of their country so they wouldn't have to flee for their lives. Maybe Trump can speak to his good buddy Putin and get that done.

Your position has no logic. If we help others who need it more than Canadians then given the numbers of millions and billions who need it more we'll have to cut off the welfare and unemployment and pensions of the majority of Canadians, for one example so we can help feed and shelter the starving in Africa. We should also not be contributing any money to Canadian charities which help people here, but only foreign based charities.

But anything we do on a worldwide scale is minuscule, and is mostly done out of self-congratulatory arrogance, to make ourselves feel better. Housing a few tens of thousands of people when there are tens of millions of refugees if of little value to the whole, far less so than our contributing money to nearby nations to help them there. But then we wouldn't be able to have selfies at the airport and feel quite as smug about how noble we are.

As for bombing them. That is and has always been a figment of an imagination filled with hatred and loathing for the West. Syrians are not coming here because we bombed them, and not fleeing Syria because the west is bombing them. They are fleeing Syria because of an ongoing war between a variety of rebel groups and the Syrian government.

Omni · December 10, 2016

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Your position has no logic. If we help others who need it more than Canadians then given the numbers of millions and billions who need it more we'll have to cut off the welfare and unemployment and pensions of the majority of Canadians, for one example so we can help feed and shelter the starving in Africa. We should also not be contributing any money to Canadian charities which help people here, but only foreign based charities.

But anything we do on a worldwide scale is minuscule, and is mostly done out of self-congratulatory arrogance, to make ourselves feel better. Housing a few tens of thousands of people when there are tens of millions of refugees if of little value to the whole, far less so than our contributing money to nearby nations to help them there. But then we wouldn't be able to have selfies at the airport and feel quite as smug about how noble we are.

As for bombing them. That is and has always been a figment of an imagination filled with hatred and loathing for the West. Syrians are not coming here because we bombed them, and not fleeing Syria because the west is bombing them. They are fleeing Syria because of an ongoing war between a variety of rebel groups and the Syrian government.

I didn't say we bombed them, but they certainly are being bombed. Go dig up some pictures of the devastation and tell me you wouldn't be heading for the exit signs as fast as your little legs would carry you if it was hapenning to you. There are lot of impoverished people in the world but there are not billions being bombed. Such exaggerations undermine your position.

taxme · December 12, 2016

On 12/10/2016 at 1:37 AM, Omni said:

Canada is broke? How will we ever pay for those new airplanes?

Ya, we are broke, and still the government spends our tax dollars like a kid who would blow all his/her allowance money in a candy store. Trudeau can blow hundreds of millions of tax dollars on refugees, and Canadians stay quiet like the wimps that they are. There are suppose to be 200,000 thousand Albertan's unemployed, but who cares, eh? No money for them but lot's of money for strangers. Those pro-multiculturalist Canadians who worry more about refugees rather than their own people are not Canadians at all. How can any Canadian care more for refugees plight rather than the plight of their own people. We do have some Canadians having problems trying to get by, don't you know?

taxme · December 12, 2016

On 12/10/2016 at 0:45 PM, Omni said:

Go take a walk down a street in Aleppo and get back to us on how "unnecessary" helping foreigners is.

No thanks. I only need to walk down some of the streets in Canada to see that there are Canadians who are in need of your help. It's not my fault or problem as to what goes on in the third world countries. There are hundreds of millions of refugees all over the world. What do you think we should do? Take them all in? I live in Canada and that his where I want my tax dollars spent helping Canadians in need. I owe the rest of the world nothing.

taxme · December 12, 2016

On 12/10/2016 at 2:46 PM, Omni said:

I didn't say we bombed them, but they certainly are being bombed. Go dig up some pictures of the devastation and tell me you wouldn't be heading for the exit signs as fast as your little legs would carry you if it was hapenning to you. There are lot of impoverished people in the world but there are not billions being bombed. Such exaggerations undermine your position.

Boy, if you should that much concern for our seniors,vets, and some Canadian children who go to bed hungry at night, maybe you would be worth listening too. But your fascination and concern for the rest of the world amazes me. What do you think? Canadians are wealthy people who have money to blow on strangers just to make people like you feel good? You want to help them/ Go over there and do so. Have a nice trip.

taxme · December 12, 2016

On 12/10/2016 at 2:36 PM, Omni said:

I am very much a Canadian and as such believe that we should help others who need it most, regardless of borders or skin colors. I would certainly prefer, and I'm sure they would as well, that we stop bombing the hell out of their country so they wouldn't have to flee for their lives. Maybe Trump can speak to his good buddy Putin and get that done.

Then help Canadians in need, not strangers. Indeed, it will probably be Trump and Putin who will end the wars in those Arab countries. Unlike Hillary and Obama who just kept them going to make the military warmongering establishment get richer and richer. But even if the wars were to come to an end, trudeau would still want to flood Canada with more refugees. It is in his liberal head.

Omni · December 12, 2016

45 minutes ago, taxme said:

No thanks. I only need to walk down some of the streets in Canada to see that there are Canadians who are in need of your help. It's not my fault or problem as to what goes on in the third world countries. There are hundreds of millions of refugees all over the world. What do you think we should do? Take them all in? I live in Canada and that his where I want my tax dollars spent helping Canadians in need. I owe the rest of the world nothing.

The streets of Canada are being bombed now? Where, I hadn't heard that. And no, we can't take everyone in who might be living in poverty, but we can certainly make some room for those who are in harms way and need it most. Maybe you can give Putin or Assad a call and ask them politely to stop bombing the shit out of Syria. Or, just your head back in the sand.

taxme · December 12, 2016

19 minutes ago, Omni said:

The streets of Canada are being bombed now? Where, I hadn't heard that. And no, we can't take everyone in who might be living in poverty, but we can certainly make some room for those who are in harms way and need it most. Maybe you can give Putin or Assad a call and ask them politely to stop bombing the shit out of Syria. Or, just your head back in the sand.

Well there are probably millions in harms way, shall we take them all? For your information, Putin is bombing the hell out of ISIS with the help of Assad. It is the Americans who are bombing everywhere but where they should be bombing. My head is out of the sand. Yours, well, I am not sure.

Omni · December 12, 2016

3 minutes ago, taxme said:

Well there are probably millions in harms way, shall we take them all? For your information, Putin is bombing the hell out of ISIS with the help of Assad. It is the Americans who are bombing everywhere but where they should be bombing. My head is out of the sand. Yours, well, I am not sure.

Putin is bombing rebels who are tired of Assad's iron fist rule because he wants the oil to keep flowing. Not sure where you think America is bombing. Perhaps pull your head a little further out of the sand. Until you see daylight is a good start.

poochy · December 12, 2016

2 hours ago, Omni said:

Putin is bombing rebels who are tired of Assad's iron fist rule because he wants the oil to keep flowing. Not sure where you think America is bombing. Perhaps pull your head a little further out of the sand. Until you see daylight is a good start.

You really don't have anything of substance to say, you just repeat the same empty phrases over and over, deflecting from the obvious fact that you cant rebut the other arguments being made, I just wonder, why do you come here to do that? Do you think no one notices how little 'there' there is to your arguments? We can't fix this problem, and it's costing us a fortune to pretend to try, but it's good liberal politics, maybe that's what matters most to you.

Omni · December 12, 2016

17 minutes ago, poochy said:

You really don't have anything of substance to say, you just repeat the same empty phrases over and over, deflecting from the obvious fact that you cant rebut the other arguments being made, I just wonder, why do you come here to do that? Do you think no one notices how little 'there' there is to your arguments? We can't fix this problem, and it's costing us a fortune to pretend to try, but it's good liberal politics, maybe that's what matters most to you.

Perhaps what I say simply goes over your head.

Argus · December 12, 2016

14 hours ago, Omni said:

The streets of Canada are being bombed now? Where, I hadn't heard that.

Nope. Seems to be a lot of gunfire in the streets of Ottawa, though, and most of it is a result of our immigration and refugee policies.

taxme · December 12, 2016

On 12/10/2016 at 2:36 PM, Omni said:

I am very much a Canadian and as such believe that we should help others who need it most, regardless of borders or skin colors. I would certainly prefer, and I'm sure they would as well, that we stop bombing the hell out of their country so they wouldn't have to flee for their lives. Maybe Trump can speak to his good buddy Putin and get that done.

Well good for you in wanting to help refugees. But please stop using my tax dollars to do so. You want to help, fork out your own money. Take in a few refugees into your home, and help feed and clothe them, and not force other Canadians to have to do so. But I will bet that you aren't so eager to do that, uhmm?

taxme · December 12, 2016

16 hours ago, Omni said:

Putin is bombing rebels who are tired of Assad's iron fist rule because he wants the oil to keep flowing. Not sure where you think America is bombing. Perhaps pull your head a little further out of the sand. Until you see daylight is a good start.

Putin and Assad are bombing the hell out of ISIS. Go to RT.com and learn something for a change, and get the other side of the story.

Omni · December 12, 2016

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

Well good for you in wanting to help refugees. But please stop using my tax dollars to do so. You want to help, fork out your own money. Take in a few refugees into your home, and help feed and clothe them, and not force other Canadians to have to do so. But I will bet that you aren't so eager to do that, uhmm?

Much more effective to do it as a group. Many other Canadians agree.

Omni · December 12, 2016

10 minutes ago, taxme said:

Putin and Assad are bombing the hell out of ISIS. Go to RT.com and learn something for a change, and get the other side of the story.

They are bombing the rebels that want Assad out. They are also bombing hospitals. ISIS has taken advantage of the situation and moved in. Putin's target is more to keep Assad in power than it is ISIS. RT? you must be kidding, but I can see you consult them regularly

taxme · December 12, 2016

11 minutes ago, Omni said:

Much more effective to do it as a group. Many other Canadians agree.

The people who agree are liberals, socialists, politically correct politicians and the liberal phony media party. I am pretty sure that the construction workers working outside in 20 degrees below zero may have a different opinion. But if you think that you are so sure about Canadians agreeing with you, then I wonder what the consensus would be if a referendum were held, and the Canadian taxpayer's were to have a say and be told as to how much it is going to cost them? I know that if I were working in 20 degrees below zero outside, and seeing my tax dollars going to refugees who do not deserve it, and I would have to pay to take care of them, I would go ballistic. Sadly, the true costs of taking care of all these refugees will never be known or told by the politicians who keep bringing them in. I think that I am safe to say that it will cost the Canadian taxpayer's billions of tax dollars, tax dollars that could be better spent on Canadians in need and on our infrastructure. Canadian tax dollars for Canadians, not a bunch of strangers.