Tax: Methods of Taxation/Law

[BC_chick]

Source?====Look, BC_Chick, the source of anything is 35 million Canadians.My suggestion is merely that we pay our collective administrators on the same day that we choose them. IOW, we pay all our taxes on election day. You pay, you vote. As I say, the true measure of a civilized society is not voter turn-out, it's tax compliance:

April 30th is the date to FILE your taxes (for an assessment), not pay them. You should have paid taxes all throughout the year calculated on each period's earnings.

Your employer has the obligation to deduct (I left the link for Bryan if you'd like the source) and it's in their interest to do so properly. It's your responsibility to make your instalments if you're self-employed. On CRA site, they state even that this is to be more fair with payroll employees.

Normally I try to see the other view before disagreeing but you're just so wrong about this.

[August1991]

The state is creating revenue. It has budgets with surpluses and deficits. Why should it conduct its affairs any differently and not protect its interest the same way any other establishment does?

That's the logic behind payroll tax.

My sister-in-law is creating revenue. So what?

The State can put you in prison, confiscate your house, access your bank account. Now, it has the right to take from you every month. How much power should the State have?

Milton Friedman invented payroll tax, and he often stated that it was his greatest error.

Edited April 8, 2016 by August1991

[BC_chick]

MANY businesses do not make any deductions whatsoever. It's extremely common, and it's all above board.

Many businesses are WRONG. I left you a link stating exactly that.

Do you care to provide your sources? Of course not, they're breaking the law and you know they are.

[Bryan]

Many businesses are WRONG.

Nope.

[msj]

MANY businesses do not make any deductions whatsoever. It's extremely common, and it's all above board.

It's not above board if it's for employees and their pay is above the basic exemption amount for CPP ($3,500 annual) and above the amount(s) set out on a TD1 form.

Oh, and EI needs to be deducted on anyone's paycheque no matter the age.

Yes, the usual $500 per year annual casual labour rule applies. But go beyond that and get caught then consequense do happen ( such as the employer being on the hook for all portions of EI and CPP premiums).

[Bryan]

Yes, many businesses take advantage of people and pay them as casual labour or as contractors.

Once again, this comes down to a matter of fact: http://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/employees/employeevscontractor.htm

Correct. Completely above board, extremely common, and fully legal.

[msj]

Once again, why would an employer be idiotic enough to stick his/her neck out for an employee?

[Bryan]

Once again, why would an employer be idiotic enough to stick his/her neck out for an employee?

I'm not endorsing the practice, just pointing out the fact that it's common.

[BC_chick]

The State can put you in prison, confiscate your house, access your bank account. Now, it has the right to take from you every month. How much power should the State have?Milton Friedman invented payroll tax, and he often stated that it was his greatest error.

You're conflating several things here, let's stay on the topic of income tax. Income tax Act is specific about how to deduct your annual federal taxes. Payroll personnel have to take courses on ensuring they do things as required by CRA because otherwise the employer is on the line for paying their employee's taxes (and more if they repeatedly don't deduct enough).

Just because Friedman regretted his idea doesn't mean it is not a fantastic means for the government to collect its revenue. It ensures prompt payment (as you expect of anyone you do business with) and taking away the right to vote will do diddly to change things. If anything, all the political junkies who lack the skills to budget their books and accrue their taxes will end up not voting. That's a horrible idea.

[msj]

Correct. Completely above board, extremely common, and fully legal.

If you are talking about contractors and they meet the uses then fine.

But BCchick is talking about employees in which case you are wrong.

Also, you may want to read up on some legal cases about this.

Employers that use "contractors" when they are really employees get nasty consequences.

[msj]

Correct. Completely above board, extremely common, and fully legal.

The other point here is the need for instalments. Contractors being self employed would be expected to pay instalments after the first year their taxes go above/are expected to go above $3,000.

Yes, instalments are optional.

But why pay 5% interest (non deductible) in a low interest world?

Stupidity is one reason. Lack of cash flow is the second most common reason.

Edited April 8, 2016 by msj

[BC_chick]

Correct. Completely above board, extremely common, and fully legal.

I've seen some shady practices but I have never seen even the shadiest of the shadiest risk interest, penalties and even jail, for helping out an employee.

I honestly don't buy it and of course your only source is criminal business affairs to I won't be holding my breath for you to prove your point.

[August1991]

April 30th is the date to FILE your taxes (for an assessment), not pay them. You should have paid taxes all throughout the year calculated on each period's earnings.

Your employer has the obligation to deduct (I left the link for Bryan if you'd like the source) and it's in their interest to do so properly. It's your responsibility to make your instalments if you're self-employed. On CRA site, they state even that this is to be more fair with payroll employees.

Normally I try to see the other view before disagreeing but you're just so wrong about this.

The payroll deduction is a legal requirement. But I'd be happy if our FILING day coincided with our VOTING day. (BTW for US listeners, have you noticed that April is 6 months from November?)

=====

BC_Chick, I am asking you to think outside the box.

When you go to Walmart, you pay when you leave. I understand that we pay for government services differently. But then, the government is not Walmart. Walmart can sue me but Walmart cannot put me in prison.

I am merely suggesting for a progressive European-way, to pay our taxes. The tax collector gives us a bill; and we pay it. That's how most Canadians pay their property taxes.

My radical, democratic idea? We pay (FILE) our taxes on the same day that we vote.

Edited April 8, 2016 by August1991

[Bryan]

If you are talking about contractors and they meet the uses then fine.

Good then.

[Bryan]

I've seen some shady practices but I have never seen even the shadiest of the shadiest risk interest, penalties and even jail, for helping out an employee.

I honestly don't buy it and of course your only source is criminal business affairs to I won't be holding my breath for you to prove your point.

That's because you don't know what you're talking about.

[msj]

That's because you don't know what you're talking about.

Um, you're the one who has conflated contractors with employees so, yeah, she does know what she's talking about and you don't.

[BC_chick]

The payroll deduction is a legal requirement.=====BC_Chick, I am asking you to think outside the box.When you go to Walmart, you pay when you leave. I understand that we pay for government services differently. But then, the government is not Walmart.Walmart can sue me but Walmart cannot put me in prison.I am merely suggesting for a progressive European-way, to pay our taxes. The tax collector gives us a bill; and we pay it. That's how most Canadians pay their property taxes.My radical, democratic idea? We pay our taxes on the same day that we vote.

I've stated several times why I think it's a bad idea. I think the vast majority of people lack the fiscal-responsibility to accrue their taxes, and I also think that taking the right to vote to those who don't comply (in a country where only 60% vote), is bound to decrease the number of voters - not increase the honesty of the tax-payers.

Maybe you're projecting your own personality if you think others are going to come up with that $10K bill with no problems at the end of the year (based on $60K salary per annum).

[msj]

tax collector gives us a bill; and we pay it. That's how most Canadians pay their property taxes.My radical, democratic idea? We pay our taxes on the same day that we vote.

It's a bad idea and I'm surprised the deficit hawks aren't jumping on this one.

Imagine Trudeau running deficits into the trillions for the next four years until we had an election so it can be paid for.

Or, imagine Canadians coming up with taxes four times their usual amount on voting day at our next election.

Either way, paying during and throughout the year is easiest for most people and easiest for the government to budget for and administer.

[Bryan]

Um, you're the one who has conflated contractors with employees so, yeah, she does know what she's talking about and you don't.

I didn't conflate anything, I was telling you how it's done.

[msj]

Or have an election each and every year.

Elections cost money so why should we do this again?

Oh, right, for ideological purposes rather than pragmatic cash flow reasons.

[msj]

I didn't conflate anything, I was telling you how it's done.

You have confused contracting with employment which BCchick was very clear on from the outset.

Quit while you're still behind.

Edited April 8, 2016 by msj

[BC_chick]

That's because you don't know what you're talking about.

Well, only one of us has left external sources on this thread backing up what we say and it wasn't you.

Msj also pointed out that you backtracked on the payroll issue and made your argument about contractors which shows the level in which you're having this discussion. They are two very different things.

[August1991]

...I think the vast majority of people lack the fiscal-responsibility to accrue their taxes, and I also think that taking the right to vote to those who don't comply

So, only smart people like you get to decide stuff - for the rest of us.

[August1991]

Either way, paying during and throughout the year is easiest for most people and easiest for the government to budget for and administer.

Except if a PM decides to spend trillions for his friends, to help people...

[Bryan]

Well, only one of us has left external sources on this thread backing up what we say and it wasn't you.

Msj also pointed out that you backtracked on the payroll issue and made your argument about contractors which shows the level in which you're having this discussion. They are two very different things.

What you posted didn't apply to the situations I mentioned, so no you didn't back anything up.

I didn't "backtrack" anything, considering that's what I was talking about all along. They are not "very different". It's a distinction many employers like to make, but it still very applies to people who work exclusively for one employer, who submit timesheet or punch a clock, and who receive a paycheque without any reductions.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Bryan