High Taxes In Europe Buy Better Child Care

[maplesyrup]

Article

As our economy has grown ever richer, we seem to put more and more of our resources into personal consumption. When it comes to sheer innovation in baubles and trinkets, North America is clearly pushing at the frontiers — the backseat TV being the latest breakthrough.

Over in Europe, personal consumption isn't quite so advanced. One reason is that Europeans pay significantly higher taxes, leaving them less money for personal indulgences. So, by the standards we judge things here, Europeans are worse off than we are.

Always left out of this calculation, of course, is what the Europeans get for their taxes. Among other things, they get some pretty wonderful programs for their children.

What a difference when you have a principled investigative journalist at work instead of some writer who shills for the transnationals!

And how refreshing to see comparisons made with great programmes for kids, instead of always comparing what Canada does to the bottom of the barrel - the US.

[stamps]

That's great that Europe is providing all these great services for their children.... but does this higher taxation factor into the much larger class gap they have over there.. or is it their so-called superior socialist philosophies that are at work.. what gets me the most about you hypocritical NDP socialists is that you are really just promoting an elitist culture with a much larger gap between the rich and the poor... as far as I am concerned you can just go blow your smoke up someone elses ass and if you want that type of a society just pick yourselves up and move to Europe and keep your arrogant cultural and oppressive philosophies over there.....

[Guest eureka]

That's great that Europe is providing all these great services for their children.... but does this higher taxation factor into the much larger class gap they have over there.. or is it their so-called superior socialist philosophies that are at work.. what gets me the most about you hypocritical NDP socialists is that you are really just promoting an elitist culture with a much larger gap between the rich and the poor... as far as I am concerned you can just go blow your smoke up someone elses ass and if you want that type of a society just pick yourselves up and move to Europe and keep your arrogant cultural and oppressive philosophies over there...

That is so much nonsense! The class gap is wider here since it is a gap based om money and the wealth and income gaps are far wider here in North America.

How can anyone with half a brain suggest (assert violently, in your case) that a party dedicated to equality promotes elitism and wider gaps between rich and poor.

[maplesyrup]

As I suspected Linda Mc Quaig's informative article, published in Canada's largest circulation newspaper, is backed up by excellent and accurate reasearch.

Speaking of the gap in the US between the rich and the poor I suggest you might want to take a gander for a reality check.

The rich-poor gap: If Brazil can address it, US can and should

the gap between the rich and the poor in the US is too wide - the widest among all the rich democracies.

Our naysayers need to publish some research references for their point of view, if they expect to have any credibility here.

[August1991]

It's easy to offer lots of government services to children when there aren't too many of them. European birth rates are below replacement levels and have been for quite some time.

In simple terms, there aren't many European children.

I recall however that many older Europeans died two summers ago because government hospitals lack air-conditioning.

[maplesyrup]

It's easy to offer lots of government services to children when there aren't too many of them. European birth rates are below replacement levels and have been for quite some time.

In simple terms, there aren't many European children.

I recall however that many older Europeans died two summers ago because government hospitals lack air-conditioning.

As I suspected with a little research, it shows that is was a right wing government in France that was in power and responsible for the deaths of those elderly people.

To suggest that there are few children in Europe without backing it up with meaningful and accurate statistics is pointless.

As usual misleading comments by Canada's elite in their efforts to milk the poor.

In France, doctors' groups and the Socialist opposition have criticised the government for failing to prepare medical workers for the heatwave.

Mr Mattei, who is facing calls for his resignation over the crisis, has admitted that the government did not have the necessary information to deal with it.

"I am now privately convinced that... we did not have the information or the warning signal that we should have had," he said. "I feel that as soon as we were alerted, we did what we had to do but I'm not sure we were alerted as early as was desirable."

  Last summer the situation was catastrophic and this year it is worse, we were not at all prepared - the hospital system is failing

Muriel Chaillet

Paris doctor

Hospitals never stood a chance 

And Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin offered a partial admission of failure.

[Montgomery Burns]

When Linda McQuaig takes a position on something, it's generally a good idea to run screaming in the opposite direction.

[Guest eureka]

Or, more likely, lie on your back and indulge in a temper tantrum That is about the level of your dissent.

[August1991]

I used to think that Linda McQuaig was an Elmer Gantry. Now I understand that she's clueless.

She has a case, but she doesn't present it well. She only preaches to the converted.

[caesar]

but then

August you think everyone but you is clueless. so....

[playfullfellow]

As I suspected with a little research, it shows that is was a right wing government in France that was in power and responsible for the deaths of those elderly people.

Ummmmmmmmm, the quote sounded more like someone is looking for a scape goat. As usual you blame anything not left MS. Surprise surprise. Sheesh, it got hot, people died, this happens almost everytime there is a heat wave. Maybe in the future they can work together to have possible solutions in place before crap like this happens.

As to the original line of this thread, what Europe has is a large segment of society that was not raised by their parents but by strangers. What Europe has is a whole generation of people who do not know their kids. The whole thing sounds good on paper but in reality, a lot of people in places like Denmark are starting to question the whole idea.

[ndpnic]

I would rather not pay higher taxes 4 daycare, but have that money put back into lower level jobs so that more women have the option to stay home and be moms! Not just the mom's who's hubby's make over $60,000.00!!

All kids deserve and need a full time parent, not just well to do kids!

I think the last generation is proof of this.

[August1991]

August you think everyone but you is clueless. so....

No, I don't believe that.

Linda McQuaig writes a piece about Europe, taxes, government and child care as a comparison to Canada. But she ignores basic facts. France has about as many children as Canada but the rest of Europe doesn't. Europe has more old people than Canada.

McQuaig's piece ignores les beurs. I suspect their children explain the birth rate in France and I suspect they don't get the care McQuaig implies.

The scientific method means being an intelligent sceptic. Linda McQuaig is no scientist. She is on a mission and has an agenda. That's not science. She confuses form for content.

[maplesyrup]

Everyone has an agenda, including yourself - what's your point?

[August1991]

Everyone has an agenda, including yourself - what's your point?

Maple Syrup, you have an agenda. I don't.

The North American Left wants to spead the word, like good Christians. Convert people. Explain to them, educate them. Raise them up.

My answer to the North American Left? I figure people can decide for themselves.

[Note: My answer makes no sense to the European Left.]

[Guest eureka]

Are you perhaps overlooking the extremely low birth rate in Canada? I think youmay be overestimating the difference in numbers of children between Canada and Europe,

[stamps]

That is so much nonsense! The class gap is wider here since it is a gap based om money and the wealth and income gaps are far wider here in North America.

How can anyone with half a brain suggest (assert violently, in your case) that a party dedicated to equality promotes elitism and wider gaps between rich and poor.

Self reliance, personal accoutabilty and the enviroment to achieve these goals is the kind of society that I want to create... I just find most socilalists are money for nothing, the world owes me everything, it's everyone elses fault but mine hypocrits... to help people that truley need it is ofcourse a top priority and must be adhered to.... but the somewhat condescending only I can see the world as it really is and should be intolorant socialists are in my opinion just pissed off that so-called ordinary people can achieve real success and that we somehow do not deserve it.... money to these types is a status symbol which really does show what they are all about. Money and having it is all about choices as far as I'm concerned and all I ask for is the enviroment to achieve more choices.....

[shackwacky]

stamps you make some really good points what would it hurt to put in some punctuation marks so the rest of us could figure out what the hell you were saying.....

[Guest eureka]

Do you have money, Stamps, or do you merely think that you have an innate superiority to most of your fellow men that will enable you to climb over their backs? Your post is the usual "Rah. Rah. Rah. Look at me and my self reliance!"

Could you please show the evidence for any of those traits you find in "socialists:" you know. the people who are inclined to think and to care before they open their mouths.

[August1991]

Do you have money, Stamps, or do you merely think that you have an innate superiority to most of your fellow men that will enable you to climb over their backs?

Eureka, do you believe that someone who works hard, saves, builds a life with good comforts is innately superior to another person and achieves this life on the backs of others?

[Slavik44]

Do you have money, Stamps, or do you merely think that you have an innate superiority to most of your fellow men that will enable you to climb over their backs? Your post is the usual "Rah. Rah. Rah. Look at me and my self reliance!"

Could you please show the evidence for any of those traits you find in "socialists:" you know. the people who are inclined to think and to care before they open their mouths.

well, I don't want to answer for Stamps nor do I want to offend anyone when I say this, and if I do i appoligize.

A while back Maplesyrup Claimed that anyone who possesed over $300,000 net worth was a thief, a criminal, an exploiter. I would consider that evidence to partially back up what Stamps was saying.

Here is the quote I am refering to:

So, based on theses figures, after Jack Layton hits a home run on one of Paul Martin's pitches, and become prime minister, hopefully there will be a settling of accounts.

Anyone worth more than $300,000. will be getting out their cheque books and writing a cheque to the Receiver General returning their surplus which they got either through stealing, murdering, or some tax loophole; and those who have less than $300,000. should expect to receive a cheque in the mail to even out the score.

And perhaps Canada should institute a policy of settling of accounts every ten years to prevent anyone group of people from hogging the wealth, eh!

[brianw]

Do you have money, Stamps, or do you merely think that you have an innate superiority to most of your fellow men that will enable you to climb over their backs? Your post is the usual "Rah. Rah. Rah. Look at me and my self reliance!"

Could you please show the evidence for any of those traits you find in "socialists:" you know. the people who are inclined to think and to care before they open their mouths.

If someone falls behind on their quotas, set by government corporations, then their home is taken and they are thrown in the street. This is a very fine example of the hypocrisy. Throwing people into the street while claiming you are socially responsible.

Self reliance has very little to do with money. You could be self reliant with a couple acres of land and a little home. I say could, although it is not possible because you must have money to pay state land rental fees, state shelter tax, you must pay the state for permission to build your home on your land, you must pay for a school system even if you don't use it, etc... The state is the one who has taken away the ability to be self reliant and replaced it with the need to be dependant.

Then if someone refuses to give up their right to work for the privilege of working for the state they are:

a) called a deadbeat if they don't work,

called a cheat if they work in the black market,

or

c) thrown in jail if they work without paying for the privilege

Is throwing someone in jail for working socially responsible?

I think people have lost track of what socially responsible really means. Does it really mean the state owns everything and everyone?

[Guest eureka]

I believe that everyone should work hard: everyone should have choices. I believe, also, that they should have choices if life deals them a bad hand.

I believe that everyone should be spared the self-righteous right wing hypocricy that preaches the values of hard work and self reliance: values that are fine until life or the right wing controlled economy decides that you are not to have the opportunities: decides that you are to stay on he floor after fighting the good fight vainly.

I believe that those who make the kind of commentary I was talking to about socialists should be "re-educated." They should be made to learn what Socialism is and to spend time observing socialists at work. Watching, that is, people who work at least as hard as they do and then go and try to do something to help better the lot of the less fortunate.

I believe in people not in selfishness and greed. I believe in the study of man not personal fortune. And, I believe that after 30 years now of dedicated right wing propaganda that has destroyed the economies of the West: that has depressed living standards for the many while enriching the few, it is time to set the record straight. It is time to cut the legs from under it wherever it appears.

It appeared, as a regurgitation of learned and accepted dogma without benefit of examination in the post I responded to.

[August1991]

I believe in people not in selfishness and greed.

There is your error, eureka. I too believe in people. But I also believe in greed. You apparently don't.

I believe in ordinary people as they are. Do you? I sincerely want the best for people as they are. Do you? Or do you want to change people to suit you?

[Guest eureka]

I think that I make it clear that I believe in the existence of greed - even in its dominant social and economic role. I think I also make it clear that greed allied to power is not to be tolerated.

Do I want to change people to suit me? Of course I do: who does not. I know that is not possible so I will settle for helping them to be the best they can be. That they cannot do while economically deprived.